How do you build an HTPC?

[VirtualLarry]

Most cable providers (? - at least Comcast) have moved to all-digital, all-encrypted, channels. Meaning, that your flat-screen TV or computer TV tuner that supported clear QAM is basically useless now.

You need a tuner that supports "cablecard". It's something like a PC card, but handles the encryption processing for your cable company. Only recently has MS allowed someone other than OEM builders to install cablecard tuners into your PC. They used to have special requirements, that limited end-users' ability to install and use those.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

ok, so I DO want to use this HTPC as a DVR replacement...so the cards I had linked to above won't allow me to do that?I thought this would. Can I get HD tv from that card? I'm so confused now

The only way to get HD from a cable provider (other than the local clear QAM channels) is one of the following ways:

1. Cable card tuner.
2. Hauppauge HD-PVR external USB box.

Most of the other HD tuner cards will allow you to record HD, but only over the air HD signals via an antenna or clear QAM signals from your cable provider (which are typically only the local channels).

 

[MrMatt]

The only way to get HD from a cable provider (other than the local clear QAM channels) is one of the following ways:

1. Cable card tuner.
2. Hauppauge HD-PVR external USB box.

Most of the other HD tuner cards will allow you to record HD, but only over the air HD signals via an antenna or clear QAM signals from your cable provider (which are typically only the local channels).

hmmm. I live right by downtown Boston so there should be plenty over the air. So if I get an HD cable tuner card it has an antenna in it for picking up the signals OTA?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

hmmm. I live right by downtown Boston so there should be plenty over the air. So if I get an HD cable tuner card it has an antenna in it for picking up the signals OTA?

No, they won't have an internal antenna to my knowledge. Some come with an external antenna, and some don't. It really depends on the model you buy. I think many of the USB ones come with a small external antenna so you can use them with laptops.

FWIW, I have a Hauppauge 2250 connected to my Brighthouse cable and it does not do a good job picking up my clear QAM signals. Media Center only detected 2 while BeyondTV detected 18, but many of those 18 were incorrect detections. I might eventually just hook an antenna to it for the free OTA stuff since most of the HD stuff I would watch would likely be available there.

 

[kalrith]

I also have a Hauppauge 2250 and have been using it for OTA (never QAM) for the past year. I have it hooked up to an outdoor antenna that I installed off the back of my 2-story deck (I didn't want to mess with the roof-top installation).

It's worked really well, and I can't say that I've had a single problem with it. I switched from a DirecTV HD DVR to my HTPC, and it's been working very well for me. I currently have Win XP + MediaPortal, but I plan to install Win7 on it in the near future and will be using MCE once I do. My wife, who has little patience for electronics that don't work flawlessly, really likes it too.

 

[MrMatt]

wait, what's the point of those hauppage cards if they don't let you watch HDTV without an antenna? Is it just standard to buy one of those cards and attach an antenna to it?

 

[IndyColtsFan]

wait, what's the point of those hauppage cards if they don't let you watch HDTV without an antenna? Is it just standard to buy one of those cards and attach an antenna to it?

Well, the Hauppauge cards that support clear QAM will let you watch clear QAM channels provided by your cable company. I am just having a hard time with the card seeing them (though ABC HD looks fantastic). I think a lot of people do attach an antenna and get the OTA stuff.

Basically, if you want stuff like History Channel HD, Discovery HD, etc, you're going to need a cablecard tuner with a cable card from your cable company. Or, you can get an Hauppauge HD PVR and be done with it. You can also just get an HD DVR from your cable company and that might be sufficient; keep in mind that many/most lock their DVR boxes down to some extent so it is hard to copy data from them off onto your network to burn to DVD.

 

[heyheybooboo]

FusionHDTV7 Dual Express

Gigabyte 785g AM2+ / Regor 240 combo or the AM3 combo version which includes 4Gb of RAMs.




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[IndyColtsFan]

I also forgot about this option as well:

http://www.silicondust.com/products

I second heyheybooboo's recommendation on the platforms. I bought an Athlon II x4 630, 4 GB of DDR3 RAM, and a Gigabyte 785 board for my HTPC refresh and couldn't be happier. Cheap and the encoding performance is on par with the Q6600 in my server.

 

[paperfist]

The new Centon card will be able to record 4 streams at once with a M-Cable card. It will retail for $399. I know this seems like a lot but many of the old ones (that have pretty much been discontinued) only supported 1 stream and cost $200-$300 each, plus the monthly cost of each additional cable card).
More details are available on this website.
http://www.cetoncorp.com/buy.php

Do you know if that Centon tuner will work across all cable providers? Is that going to be the only support card by the industry or will others come out by other manufactures?

When you go the cable card route are you able to record cable TV and then archive that to DVD?

I know having the ability to record across a massive HD is nice, but for instance Time Warner charges roughly $15+ a month for a cable card. In comparison you can get their DVR for $7 without any headaches. The one caveat of course is unless you invest the time in hacking once you record on their DVR it's stuck on their DVR.

 

[heyheybooboo]

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Following up on Paperfists comments the conversion of your recorded content is always a primary consideration.

A one-hour HD recording will range in size from 5 to 6Gb (something in the range of 4Mbps: AC3 Audio, 720p or 1080i). Conversion to 4Mbps mpg2/DVD will reduce the file size 70-80%; even more if you edit out commercials.

Divx will get you maybe another 5% --- Xvid conversion at 2Mbps will get you something in the range of around 85% reduction in size.

I've got a huge library and at first I converted every thing --- even edited-out commercials. Over the years I've pretty much decided, "Screw that."

I probably convert and archive maybe 25% ---- everything else piles up in 1Tb hard drives in internal/external drive enclosures.




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[MrMatt]

Well, the Hauppauge cards that support clear QAM will let you watch clear QAM channels provided by your cable company. I am just having a hard time with the card seeing them (though ABC HD looks fantastic). I think a lot of people do attach an antenna and get the OTA stuff.

Basically, if you want stuff like History Channel HD, Discovery HD, etc, you're going to need a cablecard tuner with a cable card from your cable company. Or, you can get an Hauppauge HD PVR and be done with it. You can also just get an HD DVR from your cable company and that might be sufficient; keep in mind that many/most lock their DVR boxes down to some extent so it is hard to copy data from them off onto your network to burn to DVD.

ok, sorry to bump this, but wtf is QAM? So I get one of those hauppage cards, and I'll be able to watch local HD channels? Or do I need to attach some huge antenna to watch them?

So essentially what I'm looking for: I just plug the cable from my cable company into the back of the computer, turn the computer on, and have HD channels through windows media center, or whatever program I use. Can I do that with one of these happpautuagaege cards?

 

[heyheybooboo]

ok, sorry to bump this, but wtf is QAM? So I get one of those hauppage cards, and I'll be able to watch local HD channels? Or do I need to attach some huge antenna to watch them?

So essentially what I'm looking for: I just plug the cable from my cable company into the back of the computer, turn the computer on, and have HD channels through windows media center, or whatever program I use. Can I do that with one of these happpautuagaege cards?

QAM is simply the term used to describe the cable signal ---- the 'M' stands for modulation, not sure of the 'QA'.

'OTA' HD signals are ATSC. Standard Def is NTSC.

By plugging the cable directly into your tuner card you will be able to receive unencrypted QAM signals --- this will most likely include the 'Basic' and 'Extended Basic' tiers. These are not HD digital channels. Some cable systems are now encrypting and converting their 'basic' tiers to a non-HD digital.

You will receive a 'handful' of unencrypted HD channels (primarily your local HD broadcasts --- rebroadcast over the cable system (at lower quality than you may receive them OTA )

Windows Media Center uses the DVR-MS file format when recording. You will have DRM issues in some instances --- not sure how well this bodes for the future.

OTA signals are broadcast in a transport stream that may include sub-channels (think WGBH with an HD main channel, Kids sub-channel, along with other 'sub' broadcasts). The 'container' is either .tp or .ts. Essentially, it is a file with several mpg2/4 streams (with AC3 audio) in the 'wrapper'.

Multiple stream files are huge. The Fusion tuner I listed above allows you to to record a single stream --- not the other 'subs' --- with OTA. WMC will list sub-channels independently (as will most tuners).




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[jdjbuffalo]

Do you know if that Centon tuner will work across all cable providers? Is that going to be the only support card by the industry or will others come out by other manufactures?

When you go the cable card route are you able to record cable TV and then archive that to DVD?

I know having the ability to record across a massive HD is nice, but for instance Time Warner charges roughly $15+ a month for a cable card. In comparison you can get their DVR for $7 without any headaches. The one caveat of course is unless you invest the time in hacking once you record on their DVR it's stuck on their DVR.

Yes, the Ceton card will work with all cable providers. There are other manufacturers that will be coming out with similar devices. Right now one has announced plans but there is no release date. Others may follow later this year.

You can archive the shows onto another computer as long as your cable provider/content creator doesn't specify a copy once flag (DRM). If that is checked then you won't be able to move the file or copy it to another source.

As far as moving shows to DVDs, I'm not familiar with that. Most people I've talked to either delete shows after they watch them or keep a large library stored on their file/media server. That's not to say you couldn't do this, I just don't know what the process would be.

Are you sure the cablecards are $15? I've never heard of them being that high. The highest I heard was around $6. Most cable providers will give you the first one for free.

 

[MrMatt]

QAM is simply the term used to describe the cable signal ---- the 'M' stands for modulation, not sure of the 'QA'.

'OTA' HD signals are ATSC. Standard Def is NTSC.

By plugging the cable directly into your tuner card you will be able to receive unencrypted QAM signals --- this will most likely include the 'Basic' and 'Extended Basic' tiers. These are not HD digital channels. Some cable systems are now encrypting and converting their 'basic' tiers to a non-HD digital.

You will receive a 'handful' of unencrypted HD channels (primarily your local HD broadcasts --- rebroadcast over the cable system (at lower quality than you may receive them OTA )

Windows Media Center uses the DVR-MS file format when recording. You will have DRM issues in some instances --- not sure how well this bodes for the future.

OTA signals are broadcast in a transport stream that may include sub-channels (think WGBH with an HD main channel, Kids sub-channel, along with other 'sub' broadcasts). The 'container' is either .tp or .ts. Essentially, it is a file with several mpg2/4 streams (with AC3 audio) in the 'wrapper'.

Multiple stream files are huge. The Fusion tuner I listed above allows you to to record a single stream --- not the other 'subs' --- with OTA. WMC will list sub-channels independently (as will most tuners).




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Thank yoU!

So let's see if I get this now:

I get one of those cards. I get basic & extended tier standard def channels. I may get some HD channels from local broadcasts but they'll be of lower quality. In order to get better HD quality from an HTPC I need to get an HD antenna and hook it up to the card in the computer. This way I can get OTA HD channels, yes?

 

[MrMatt]

anyone?

 

[heyheybooboo]

You pretty much got it.

However, there is no real such thing as an "HD antenna". If you are really close to the towers (< 15 miles) simple uhf/vhf rabbit ears will work great.




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[MrMatt]

You pretty much got it.

However, there is no real such thing as an "HD antenna". If you are really close to the towers (< 15 miles) simple uhf/vhf rabbit ears will work great.




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There's towers all over Boston, I should be set. Thanks!


Also, as of this time, there's no way to get like Discovery HD and all that through an HTPC?

 

[kalrith]

There's towers all over Boston, I should be set. Thanks!


Also, as of this time, there's no way to get like Discovery HD and all that through an HTPC?

You can do it one of two ways: with a cable card and Win7 MCE; with a cable box or satellite receiver plus a Hauppauge HD PVR.

 

[heyheybooboo]

There's towers all over Boston, I should be set. Thanks!


Also, as of this time, there's no way to get like Discovery HD and all that through an HTPC?

You can go to http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx, enter your street address, and they will calculate the distances. They will also give you a breakdown as to uhf/vhf digital broadcasts.

Some tuner cards handle 'multipath' better than others. Signals tend to bounce off tall buildings and such - that's multipath. It sometimes make it more difficult to lock on to a really strong signal but it sounds like you are in a great position for OTA.

I would think that WGBH would have HD broadcasts of National Geographic, Nature, Nova & ScienceNow --- in addition to things like Frontline, This Old House, American Experience, Antiques Roadshow, etc. My understanding is that they produce 1/3 of the PBS broadcast content - and hopefully they aren't so cheap as to not purchase other product - LOL

So make a donation during pledge week




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[MrMatt]

You can do it one of two ways: with a cable card and Win7 MCE; with a cable box or satellite receiver plus a Hauppauge HD PVR.

The cable card & Win7 MCE will get me HD versions of things like Discovery, etc.? Is that a feature of Win7 MCE?

You can go to http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx, enter your street address, and they will calculate the distances. They will also give you a breakdown as to uhf/vhf digital broadcasts.

Some tuner cards handle 'multipath' better than others. Signals tend to bounce off tall buildings and such - that's multipath. It sometimes make it more difficult to lock on to a really strong signal but it sounds like you are in a great position for OTA.

I would think that WGBH would have HD broadcasts of National Geographic, Nature, Nova & ScienceNow --- in addition to things like Frontline, This Old House, American Experience, Antiques Roadshow, etc. My understanding is that they produce 1/3 of the PBS broadcast content - and hopefully they aren't so cheap as to not purchase other product - LOL

So make a donation during pledge week




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LOL They're actually about .75 miles from my house. My room mate works there

 

[evident]

is there an advantage of CableCard over provided set top box? cablecards are pretty expensive to rent too from what i've seen. and you don't get on demand either. I really would like to use the windows media center interface to watch TV. i really love it.

 

[kalrith]

The cable card & Win7 MCE will get me HD versions of things like Discovery, etc.? Is that a feature of Win7 MCE?

Yes. It's actually more of a security thing that the cable companies will only allow their cable cards to work with Win7 MCE (or something like that). AFAIK you'll need to purchase a cable-card tuner for your PC and lease a cable card from your cable company. If you do all that, then you'll get all the cable channels to which you are subscribed in Win7 MCE. The one caveat to using a cable card is that the files are encrypted, so you are limited on sharing the files across the network and possibly doing post-processing to the files. If that's a deal-breaker to you, then you should go the Hauppauge-HD-PVR route.

 

[kalrith]

is there an advantage of CableCard over provided set top box? cablecards are pretty expensive to rent too from what i've seen. and you don't get on demand either. I really would like to use the windows media center interface to watch TV. i really love it.

I don't think there'd be a noticeable difference in quality between using a CableCard and using a STB connected to the Hauppauge HD PVR. The CableCard reduces clutter, and if you get the Ceton quad cablecard tuner, you can record 4 shows at once with only 1 cablecard. Even to just record 2 shows at once without the cablecard would require 2 STBs and 2 Hauppauge HD PVRs. However, once you record the files with the Hauppauge HD PVR, they're yours to do with as you please (technically, even if not legally).