How do you acquire your good overclocking CPU?

[rtsurfer]

Since you insist "The cost of the actual silicon is generally less than $10" then what pays for all the fab equipment, R&D, programming and research? I guess that's all free too.

Well I guess the guy overstated when he said $10 but, believe me the CPU arent that expensive as Intel themselves were selling the 4770K for $95 as a part of their retail edge program. Considering the 4770K is like $300 on Newegg, it is safe to assume most of the business owners do make appropriate profit. While I am against returning bad OCers, nobody is loosing money if a few of them are returned. Just a little less profits.

Which means if my 4770K (assuming I end up with that as I'm still waiting on the rumored Silverstone 550 watt SFX PSU to become available before buying the rest of my parts for my M1 NCase mini-itx build) fails to get 4.7GHz+ stable I'll probably throw a $h1*fit.

You will be really lucky if you hit 4.7 Ghz looking at the current state of Haswell.
You've had a good experience in the past so you have nothing to complain about, but that doesnt mean people with bad experiences cant complain as their experience is different then yours.

 

[Gillbot]

So I am running junk components..??
That is your pathetic excuse.
I am running what can be considered pretty good components but i will not waste my time mentioning them as you are so great to draw conclusions without knowing what you are talking about.


And what exactly is advertised..?
That is the problem. Intel says that here you have a CPU with an unlocked multiplier and that is it. They wont even take time to properly Bin those parts.
Which they should as they are advertised as Overclockable parts and charge a premium for it.
So either Intel should stop bubble gum under their IHS or stop advertising them as overclockable parts.

If you assumed I was talking about your specific components, that;s your mistake. I guess if the shoe fits though.....

And YES, even unlocked parts have a RETAIL spec and they operate fine there. Just because a car has a 200MPH speedometer doesn't allow you to drive it as fast as you want anywhere you want right? If you race it, you can be assured the car manufacturer will void that warranty as well. Run it an an endurance race, blow up the motor then take it to the dealer and see how far you get.

Well I guess the guy overstated when he said $10 but, believe me the CPU arent that expensive as Intel themselves were selling the 4770K for $95 as a part of their retail edge program. Considering the 4770K is like $300 on Newegg, it is safe to assume most of the business owners do make appropriate profit. While I am against returning bad OCers, nobody is loosing money if a few of them are returned. Just a little less profits.


You will be really lucky if you hit 4.7 Ghz looking at the current state of Haswell.
You've had a good experience in the past so you have nothing to complain about, but that doesnt mean people with bad experiences cant complain as their experience is different then yours.

Regardless if their cost is $10 or $50, they are out to make a PROFIT. They have R&D, equipment, research and other things to cover not including PROFIT. They aren't in business to serve you. Why is that so hard to understand? I'm sure you go to work for just enough money to eat and afford a modest home with no extras. If you got anything extra you give right back to the company right? I mean, you don't think they should be allowed to make extra and profit, why should you?

 

[rtsurfer]

If you assumed I was talking about your specific components, that;s your mistake. I guess if the shoe fits though.....

Ummm

I highly doubt this is the case. Odds are more likey that the "top reviewers" have better overall parts like top tier motherboards, great ram and stable PSU's that allows them to squeak out that extra performance whereas most people try to overclock with whatever junk they have laying around and complain when it doesn't work.

Now further:

And YES, even unlocked parts have a RETAIL spec and they operate fine there. Just because a car has a 200MPH speedometer doesn't allow you to drive it as fast as you want anywhere you want right? If you race it, you can be assured the car manufacturer will void that warranty as well. Run it an an endurance race, blow up the motor then take it to the dealer and see how far you get.

Fair point. But buying an expensive sports car and expecting it to perform better then your regular car is not wrong.

Although a clear line needs to be drawn as to what is acceptable and what is unacceptable.

100 miles/h isnt enough for a sports car guarantee as 3.5 Ghz is not enough for an overclocking CPU.

Regardless if their cost is $10 or $50, they are out to make a PROFIT. They have R&D, equipment, research and other things to cover not including PROFIT. They aren't in business to serve you. Why is that so hard to understand? I'm sure you go to work for just enough money to eat and afford a modest home with no extras. If you got anything extra you give right back to the company right? I mean, you don't think they should be allowed to make extra and profit, why should you?

Since they arent in the Business to serve me I guess I shouldnt give a damn about whatever feelings of morality I have. Because if the companies dont care about me, but just about their profits then why should I care.

I'll keep on RMAing CPUs till I find the one which satisfies my needs.
And you shouldnt say that

Exactly. Everyone else is ruining it by believing the overclock hype and they justify their shady actions by twisting and contorting reality.

Because if the companies dont care, the neither do I.

Lastly, well I do work and try to make more than a modest living, I do not procrastinate or steal at work to make more. There should be a sense of proper morality in ones conduct. Extra profits is not wrong, shady trade practices for more profit, is wrong.

 

[TerryMathews]

I've not seen newegg nor amazon sell a chip with an overclock guarantee so your example doesn't apply. Who's moving the goal posts now?

Nope, but nice try. The original allegation was that sending a chip back that didnt overclock well was RMA fraud.

Amazon (as you stated) will take almost anything back for any reason. They'll cut you off if you abuse it, but they'll still take it back.

Put another way: they dont specifically state that they WON'T accept a return for that reason so QED they will considering the wording of their A-to-Z guarantee.

My goalposts have never moved. From post one, my point is that it isnt return/RMA fraud, as long as you dont misrepresent why you're returning it.

You've contorted yourself around so much its like you dont even remember the point you were trying to make.

Lastly, most merchants have a return policy that allowed for all situations minus certain exclusions. Anyone with that type of system wouldn't need an "overclocking guarantee" any more than they would need a "UPS driver stole it" guarantee or a hurricane guarantee.

 

[TerryMathews]

Just because a car has a 200MPH speedometer doesn't allow you to drive it as fast as you want anywhere you want right? If you race it, you can be assured the car manufacturer will void that warranty as well. Run it an an endurance race, blow up the motor then take it to the dealer and see how far you get.

Epic straw man, and it doesn't even make sense to boot. Your analogy would only work if we were arguing that you should be able to peg the max indicated speed (what is the max base x bclk on Haswell?).

Regardless if their cost is $10 or $50, they are out to make a PROFIT. They have R&D, equipment, research and other things to cover not including PROFIT. They aren't in business to serve you. Why is that so hard to understand? I'm sure you go to work for just enough money to eat and afford a modest home with no extras. If you got anything extra you give right back to the company right? I mean, you don't think they should be allowed to make extra and profit, why should you?

Technically, their only purpose is to serve us. If they dont, they dont move product. The tech industry is littered with carcasses that forgot that.

 

[Markfw]

AN RMA is returning a product because its defective. If you RMA a product, not because it does not conform to the manufacturers specifications, but because it does not meet your specifications, ITS FRAUD.

Anandtech does NOT condone people advocating fraud.

 

[TerryMathews]

AN RMA is returning a product because its defective. If you RMA a product, not because it does not conform to the manufacturers specifications, but because it does not meet your specifications, ITS FRAUD.

Anandtech does NOT condone people advocating fraud.

No, its not.

Return
Merchandise
Authorization

Why is between you and the vendor.

And while we are on the subject, no one has condoned fraud in this thread so please dont come in and lecture. We have been very specific.

 

[jcniest5]

If there are ten rounds of drawing with 99 prices to give away in each round (that's 990 total prices), and there are only 100 people participating in each round (1,000 total all ten rounds), I will still be the one that won't win anything in all ten rounds. The result would still be the same with a scenario of 1,000,000 drawings and 999,900 prices.

Translate that into obtaining a good overclocker CPU doesn't look too good either.

 

[Markfw]

No, its not.

Return
Merchandise
Authorization

Why is between you and the vendor.

And while we are on the subject, no one has condoned fraud in this thread so please dont come in and lecture. We have been very specific.

Yes someone is advocating fraud. See this post:

Stop using the words Moral and Ethic -- You don't know their definitions.
...snip....

It's not immoral, or unethical to RMA a chip that is 100% functional. And one could even argue that people might not try to get 'golden' chips if Intel would stop being cheap with their shitty TIM under their IHS'.

And questioning my "guidance", trying to stop me stopping fraud borders on a callout.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Any overclocking can damage a chip as well. So after someone tried with high voltage, high freqency, the chip can already have been damaged. Now with the possibility of being resold to someone else.

Also since with Intel overclocking is for K/X models only. The next buyer and potential overclocker will get a possible worse overclocking chip as well.

There really is no excuse for the extremely selffish egoism that is requierd to even think on returning a chip for a better clocker. Besides, being simply fraud.

 

[TerryMathews]

Yes someone is advocating fraud. See this post:


And questioning my "guidance", trying to stop me stopping fraud borders on a callout.

I'm sorry, it wasn't bolded. I assumed you were posting as a regular user and not a moderator. Isnt that how it works? If you feel I crossed the line infract me for it and I'll take it to Mod Discussions and see where the chips fall but I did not bring up you being a mod, you did.

Again, I point back at what RMA stands for. It does not necessairly mean that an item is defective, just that you have an authorization to return it. Amazon issues RMA numbers for non-defective items all the time. Doesn't fit, don't like it, not as expected. Are all vendors like that? Of course not. That's why having a blanket statement like "Returning a chip that doesn't overclock is RMA fraud." is such an idiotic statement.

 

[TerryMathews]

Besides, being simply fraud.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?rd=1&word=fraud

Words have specific meanings. You cant just redefine their meaning in order to make your argument work.

Fraud requires, by definition, misrepresentation or deceit. As we have established in this thread there are vendors where that is not the case.

 

[TerryMathews]

And I'll put my personal opinion down, since I dont think I have to this point.

Ive never returned a chip, for any reason let alone not overclocking. That said, in my experience if a chip doesn't overclock well using quality components there is usually something wrong with it at stock settings as well. A Haswell that will throttle under IBT at stock, for example.

Overclocking generally takes up the slack in the leeway manufacturers build into their specs for junk components. There is of course some variability and ive had some that never overclocked like I wanted them to, but ive won more than I lost and I generally enjoy the process as much as the end result.

Its all about the challenge to me.

 

[Burpo]

I'm with you Terry.. I got my Xeons off ebay, and as long as they post, there's no reason to send them back. If I don't like the chip I buy another and the kid gets the hand me downs..lol

 

[Markfw]

I'm sorry, it wasn't bolded. I assumed you were posting as a regular user and not a moderator. Isnt that how it works? If you feel I crossed the line infract me for it and I'll take it to Mod Discussions and see where the chips fall but I did not bring up you being a mod, you did.

Again, I point back at what RMA stands for. It does not necessairly mean that an item is defective, just that you have an authorization to return it. Amazon issues RMA numbers for non-defective items all the time. Doesn't fit, don't like it, not as expected. Are all vendors like that? Of course not. That's why having a blanket statement like "Returning a chip that doesn't overclock is RMA fraud." is such an idiotic statement.

Yes, I was posting like a regular user, but to in any way say its OK, to lie to a company and tell them you want to return your chip saying its defective, when in fact its because it won't overclock as well as you want, is fraud.

I guess that I and others assume there is no way any company would actually OK an RMA with the reason being "it won't overclock well", and that people that return them for that reason use some other lame excuse.

At least reason would dictate that.

 

[TerryMathews]

Yes, I was posting like a regular user, but to in any way say its OK, to lie to a company and tell them you want to return your chip saying its defective, when in fact its because it won't overclock as well as you want, is fraud.

I guess that I and others assume there is no way any company would actually OK an RMA with the reason being "it won't overclock well", and that people that return them for that reason use some other lame excuse.

At least reason would dictate that.

But we already discussed the fact that Amazon will approve any return.

No one said to lie and I specifically said several times to not misrepresent.

I dont think anyone here actually suggested fraud.

The bottom line is fraud is fraud but returning a chip isn't necesaairly fraud. It depends on how you present that return whether or not it's fraud.

I think every one of my posts is consistent with that and I dont see how any reasonable person could disagree with it.

Mark you and I have talked in a few other threads. I know you're a reasonable guy. I think a few people read too far into what was being discussed and took it the wrong way. This all started with the declaration that returning a CPU for not overclocking was fraud, which is exactly as false as saying returning an LCD for dead pixels is fraud. The situation determines whether or not its fraud. Blanket statements generally dont work.

:beer:

 

[Markfw]

But we already discussed the fact that Amazon will approve any return.

No one said to lie and I specifically said several times to not misrepresent.

I dont think anyone here actually suggested fraud.

The bottom line is fraud is fraud but returning a chip isn't necesaairly fraud. It depends on how you present that return whether or not it's fraud.

I think every one of my posts is consistent with that and I dont see how any reasonable person could disagree with it.

Mark you and I have talked in a few other threads. I know you're a reasonable guy. I think a few people read too far into what was being discussed and took it the wrong way. This all started with the declaration that returning a CPU for not overclocking was fraud, which is exactly as false as saying returning an LCD for dead pixels is fraud. The situation determines whether or not its fraud. Blanket statements generally dont work.

:beer:

Now that the wording is better, I have to agree, My involvement in this thread came while responding as a moderator to reported posts, one of which I quoted above, and here again:

Blamblooga
It's not immoral, or unethical to RMA a chip that is 100% functional.

It was other things that created the infractions, but I had to nip this in the bud.

 

[Hulk]

Okay so I think I received the information I was looking for.
So most people it seems don't get a very good overclocking CPU, and they don't talk about it.
A small percentage of people get very good overclockers and being proud of their find they report on their golden chip.

 

[BUnit1701]

Who says they are "abusing it"? If you get off your high horse and see that any person doing this is within their rights because of the retailers policy then that's your problem.

Since when? I've returned a chip that wasn't what I expected but I didn't get another one sent to me, I got my money back instead. So you can say it cost them the initial shipping and it cost me the shipping as well. At least the shipping companies win out? Oh and the retailers too who get exceptional shipping rates overall because of mass shipping. The only person who really lost out was myself, as I had to pay full shipping rates back.

Of the thousands, or hundreds of thousands of chips this retailer sends out every year, how many do you think are being sent back because of not being good overclockers (or in my case because it didn't unlock to a quad)? Enough to raise their prices?

Yes and if this happens with one in every 10,000 chips they sell, how much do you think it's costing them or anyone? Enough to drive up prices?

Yes amazingly enough these costs are diluted over hundreds of millions of chips. How much do you think a few thousand returns of this nature are costing them? Enough to raise the price of CPU's by more than a cent?

I can tell you don't get it - you clearly have zero concept of the numbers involved here and have never worked in retail either. The $billions made by chip companies compared to the $thousands "lost" for this doesn't even register with them. At the retail level the cost is still tiny - basically it's only shipping fees which is costing them peanuts anyway.

Some of them might not even repay the delivery cost of sending it back (most here in the UK don't), in which case they almost certainly made a profit on you anyway because whatever they charged you for the initial delivery would have been a lot less than what it cost them. You think it costs Newegg $8 to ship an item to you?

What you dont seem to see/understand is that if this is considered 'acceptable practice' then it will no longer be a small minority of customers doing it. THAT is what will drive up prices. Its the slippery slope.

 

[MrSquished]

Any overclocking can damage a chip as well. So after someone tried with high voltage, high freqency, the chip can already have been damaged. Now with the possibility of being resold to someone else.

Also since with Intel overclocking is for K/X models only. The next buyer and potential overclocker will get a possible worse overclocking chip as well.

There really is no excuse for the extremely selffish egoism that is requierd to even think on returning a chip for a better clocker. Besides, being simply fraud.

exactly. and at the very least it is highly highly unethical

 

[Makaveli]

No, its not.

Return
Merchandise
Authorization

Why is between you and the vendor.

And while we are on the subject, no one has condoned fraud in this thread so please dont come in and lecture. We have been very specific.

And where does the vendor send the processor too they don't produce cpu's!

There are alot of opinons in here but i'm in the fraud camp. And I guarantee if any of these retailors knew you were returning cpu's do to bad overclocking they would either red flag you or not sell to you.

Since when did the overclocking headroom of a processor become a mandatory part of the sale? unless your buying from Ebay.

Fraud requires, by definition, misrepresentation or deceit. As we have established in this thread there are vendors where that is not the case.

So when you take the cpu back to the vendor what exactly are you telling them is the reason for the return. Other than amazon who is not the norm, other retailers they will deny a return for a processor that doesn't overclock. So it would be safe to assume most would be telling a lie about why they are returning it???

I'm with you Terry.. I got my Xeons off ebay, and as long as they post, there's no reason to send them back. If I don't like the chip I buy another and the kid gets the hand me downs..lol

Your xeon's are from Ebay and not from a vendor bad example.

You cannot compare buying the processors from a major retailer to buying them from some guy on Ebay.

This all started with the declaration that returning a CPU for not overclocking was fraud, which is exactly as false as saying returning an LCD for dead pixels is fraud. The situation determines whether or not its fraud. Blanket statements generally dont work.

:beer:

When you buy a monitor or TV the warranty is specific and has coverage for a certain amount of dead pixels/ stuck pixels etc.

There is no such thing when buying a processor aslong as the cpu works at stock frequency you have no grounds to complain about anything to the vendor or intel/amd.

 

[SiliconWars]

What you dont seem to see/understand is that if this is considered 'acceptable practice' then it will no longer be a small minority of customers doing it. THAT is what will drive up prices. Its the slippery slope.

No it won't, because there will still by a tiny minority of people who actually care about overclocking CPU's in the first place.

This is no different from returning a pair of shoes or clothing that doesn't fit or you don't like the colour of. Believe me, everybody here has bought a piece of clothing that was returned to a store - in fact I'd bet everybody here has returned a piece of clothing to a store because of reasons like this. What's the difference?

And can we please note that no company is just going to accept your RMA without testing it first? Has anybody ever had an RMA accepted without their component being tested? I've RMA'd literally hundreds of pieces of CPU equipment at various distributors and retailers over the years, and every single piece has been tested for fault first. If it has no fault it gets returned to me without being credited.

The only way to commit fraud is to deliberately break the component (in a non-physical manner - because physical defects are not grounds for RMA unless they were received in that condition) so that you get a new one, which is something that I see NOBODY in this thread advocating.

 

[MrSquished]

N
The only way to commit fraud is to deliberately break the component (in a non-physical manner - because physical defects are not grounds for RMA unless they were received in that condition) so that you get a new one, which is something that I see NOBODY in this thread advocating.

the problem is you can't tell if you have damaged a chip while trying to overclock it. most likely it will continue to work at stock settings, however there could be damage done that shortens it's lifespan, causes errors. you just don't know - and if you don't know, it's not ethical.

with clothes you can tell easily if you damaged them.

 

[Makaveli]

No it won't, because there will still by a tiny minority of people who actually care about overclocking CPU's in the first place.

This is no different from returning a pair of shoes or clothing that doesn't fit or you don't like the colour of. Believe me, everybody here has bought a piece of clothing that was returned to a store - in fact I'd bet everybody here has returned a piece of clothing to a store because of reasons like this. What's the difference?

This is not the same shoes that are too small you obviously cannot walk or function in them.

A processor that doesn't overclock well is not broken and is functioning properly aslong as it runs fine at stock. If your processor wasn't running well at stock then its defective and you have a valid reason to RMA.

I cannot for the life of me understand why so many of you cannot see the difference here or understand it.

 

[SiliconWars]

the problem is you can't tell if you have damaged a chip while trying to overclock it. most likely it will continue to work at stock settings, however there could be damage done that shortens it's lifespan, causes errors. you just don't know - and if you don't know, it's not ethical.

I'm pretty sure you CAN tell if you damaged a chip while overclocking it. If you then decide to RMA it at that point, yes that is fraudulent.

If however you return it not in the knowledge that it is damaged when it is, that's unfortunate however the chances of it being found to be damaged are still very small. If another person gets it, vast chances are they won't overclock it. If it stays alive within the 2 or 3 year warranty, that's what they paid for (this is the same argument you use about bad overclockers and stock speeds).

If it does break under warranty then they get a brand new chip for free - quite often a faster or upgraded one at that.

with clothes you can tell easily if you damaged them.

Not necessarily - all it takes is a tiny bit of pulled wool that can unravel on catching something. How do you know you haven't damaged something on an item of clothing you've returned? You don't.

Forget all about overclocking for a minute - maybe you just don't know how to install a CPU very well and decide you don't want it after installing it. Is that ok to return, even if you say, made a tiny bend a pin on it? It still works...for now, but maybe the next person will break the pin on installation?

I'll give you a hint as well - that last example happens hundreds of times more often than problems with overclocked CPU's.