how do we know the vitamineral nutritional info of vegetables is accurate?

[soccerballtux]

Take bananas for example.
https://www.google.com/search?q=banana+nutrition

Or apples. Or anything you can buy organic. Or that's grown from different regions of the US. What's the standard deviation of vitamin and mineral content of produce? Does it vary from state to state? Organic to inorganic? What about compared to 30 years ago? We're certainly growing it faster. Anyone have hard studies on this?

 

[Z15CAM]

We're certainly growing it faster. Anyone have hard studies on this?

Monsanto doesn't want you to know the secrets of their copyright biotech engineered foods and herbicide products. World Food Inc is a Monopoly which control Laws to oust Independent Farmers and sell you Soylent Green - LOL

Watch Food Inc: http://viooz.co/movies/2153-food-inc-2008.html

 

[CycloWizard]

There are people who do research in botany, plant biology, agriculture, and so on that spend their lives looking at these factors. I know very little about any of this except that the techniques needed to make these measurements are very mature. I'm sure that soil, weather, fertilization, and other factors will significantly impact the nutrition in a given fruit/veg. I was able to track down an FDA link which gives you the official line on whether/how much it matters:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceReg...ryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm063113.htm

 

[Z15CAM]

Sadly, due to the Political Power Monsanto (A Multi-Billion Dollar Bio Genetic and Herbicide Food Co.) have on Copyrights the FDA has very little influence. Monsanto can easily establish themselves anywhere in regards to the Worlds Food Supply, targeting 3rd World Country's, simply though Lobbying and Bribery.

 

[soccerballtux]

There are people who do research in botany, plant biology, agriculture, and so on that spend their lives looking at these factors. I know very little about any of this except that the techniques needed to make these measurements are very mature. I'm sure that soil, weather, fertilization, and other factors will significantly impact the nutrition in a given fruit/veg. I was able to track down an FDA link which gives you the official line on whether/how much it matters:
http://www.fda.gov/Food/GuidanceReg...ryInformation/LabelingNutrition/ucm063113.htm

you mean like the way we measure calories involves burning the food including the fiber? very advanced?

 

[Z15CAM]

you mean like the way we measure calories involves burning the food including the fiber? very advanced?

It's called "Exercise".

 

[Gibsons]

you mean like the way we measure calories involves burning the food including the fiber? very advanced?

The methods used to measure are (or can be) extremely precise. There's certainly going to be variation though. Cyclowizard hit on a few, but add weather, soil (including germs, pests, etc), even sub varieties of the same plants. Industrial seed production has probably reduced the varietal factor a great deal, but still.

 

[DrPizza]

It's called "Exercise".

He's talking about how they come up with the number that's printed on the side of the label.

And, this has nothing to do with Monsanto or any other company. The amount of vitamin C in an orange (ascorbic acid) could be measured fairly accurately by a 2nd year college chemistry student.

However, overall, I'd say that the nutritional content is more or less an approximation for most vegetables and fruits. E.g., if one apple differs in weight by 10% from another apple, that's not really that big of a difference. But, I'd assume that all else being equal, the person consuming the smaller apple would have roughly 10% fewer milligrams of whatever vitamin. But, what if the person with the bigger apple leaves more of the core? What if the person peeling the potato doesn't peel the potato? What happens to the nutritional content when you decide that battered deep fried cauliflower (gag) is the way to go? Or you boil it for 8 minutes instead of 4 minutes? Etc.

Edit: I'm assuming the OP was referring to raw veggies and fruits, where such labeling would not be required. (At least, the last time I bought a head of lettuce, there wasn't a nutritional label on it.) I presumed he was talking more about general information found at other sources, "a carrot contains.." And yes, for minerals, the geographic location can make a huge difference. Around me, among other things, we have a selenium shortage in the soil, which leads to a shortage in browse and hay, which leads to a shortage in animals such as goats, which leads to problems. Since the problems can be observed, it's easy to realize it exists & supplement the animals. But, if carrots are lacking some mineral on some farm in some other state - and the problem doesn't lead to a visual difference, is anyone going to know or care if the farmer supplements the crop. In fact, if it's an organic crop, would the farmer even be allowed to supplement it?

 

[Z15CAM]

He's talking about how they come up with the number that's printed on the side of the label.

I was joking on that but I beg to differ when you say:

And, this has nothing to do with Monsanto or any other company.

I'm assuming the OP was referring to raw veggies and fruits, where such labeling would not be required.

Just about every fabric of our diet is grown on Monsanto Corn and that includes, Beef, Fish and fertilizes for Fruits and Vegetables.

Really! When did fish start eating corn. Where are our Honey Bee's - Where are our Barn Swallows ... etc.

Other then for the lack of exercise, I believe Monsanto and Corrupt Greedy Politicians are 99% responsible for the obesity and health issues we have with our new generation.

Monsanto Biotech Corn, Biotech Soybeans, Biotech Tomatoes, Biotech Grain, Genetic Engineered Cloned Cattle, Sheep, Pigs, Chickens and Chemically Designed Herbicides ....etc & etc.

Suggest you read these articles: http://www.chemanager-online.com/en...-denied-us-supreme-court-hearing-seed-patents

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...st-as-profit-tops-estimates-on-corn-seed.html

http://rt.com/usa/monsanto-first-quarter-earnings-322/

And don't tell me that 90% of what we ingest today is not manipulated by Monsanto and Politicians.

Unless Co-Oped through Monsanto the average farmer can not sell his Dairy or Produce at market due to contrived and restrictive Laws designed to put him out of business.

I would not be surprised when Pot becomes acceptably legal across more States and the Gov't collects more Tax that Monsanto will not Bio-Engineer and Patent a Pot Plant 10 Times more Potent that will grow twice as big in less then 1/2 the time - LOL

However their Genetic Engineered Fish, Tomatoes and Wheat with Herbicide Chromosomes ...etc , although big, are all tasteless, destroying our immune systems and health.

I would not eat a McDonald's hamburger if you offered to pay me $100 as I know it's made up of 1000'nds of Genetically Engineered cloned cows living in squallier, feeding on Bio-Tech Corn, washed with Herbicides and meat bleached with ammonia and that also applies to 90% of the Fruits and Veggies we find in our Super Markets today.

 

[DrPizza]

<snip>.

But, you're overlooking the point I made above, which Gibsons & CycloWizard also pointed out/alluded to: an average kid at college for a couple of years who has taken biology/chemistry can measure these things fairly easily & accurately. Unless no one has ever thought to ever measure these things for either research purposes, or simply to give students something to practice on, then major deviations from what's printed on the label will be noticed.

Heck, when my wife returned for her B.S.N, she was stuck taking an organic chemistry course; mostly online. But the labs were 8 hours long on a couple of Saturdays. On a 1 to 10 scale of rigor for an organic chemistry course, I'd have to rate my experience 20-some years ago as a 10; her course as about a 1. But, even in her labs, they were doing things like measuring the carbohydrate content of certain foods - experiments that directly relate to the OP's question. (And not doing experiments like I had to suffer through: bromination of an unknown toluene, grade based on percent yield compared to theoretical maximum percent yield (you're going to get byproducts) as well as the purity of the product, and identification of the product.)

 

[Z15CAM]

I have 3 years University in Academic Physics, Math, and Chemistry plus 2 more years of College studying Electrical Engineering & Digital Fundamentals. I can't stop reading about the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire or about the circumstances about Battles that affect History - Guess I'm an addictive leaner.

I averaged 98% in labs (Probably the highest lab mark across Canada) which was approx 16Hr's of labs/week out of a 30hour week course and averaging 4 to 6 hours of homework/night.

Believe me, analysis of substances is not that simple when you don't have a blueprint on how it was engineered and Monsanto along with Gov't Copyright Laws will never divulge this info as it will expose Corruption and Greed at the expense of the Health of the People in a Society they are paid to serve.

Except to smell the flowers, I was never much into Biology. Maybe that's where or point of view differ and I respect that ;o)

 

[DrPizza]

I have 3 years University in Academic Physics, Math, and Chemistry plus 2 more years of Collegestudying Electrical Engineering & Digital Fundamentals. I can't stop reading about the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire or about the circumstances about any Battle that affects History - Guess I'm an addictive leaner.

I averaged 98% in labs (Probably the highest lab mark across Canada) which was approx 16Hr's of labs/week out of a 30hour week course and averaging 4 to 6 hours of homework/night.

Believe me, analysis of substances is not that simple when you don't have a blueprint on how it was engineered and Monsanto along with Gov't Copyright Laws will never divulge this info as it will expose Corruption and Greed at the expense of the Health of the People in a Society they are paid to serve.

Are you claiming that without the "blueprint from Monsanto" that measuring the iron content isn't trivial? The copper content? Any mineral content? Are you claiming that without knowing the genetic code - the DNA - that the amount of L-ascorbic acid cannot be measured? That the amount of carbohydrates cannot be measured? However do you think they measured those things decades prior to anyone even dreamed of genetically modifying foods? Heck, before anyone even knew what DNA was?

 

[Z15CAM]

claiming that without the "blueprint from Monsanto" that measuring the iron content isn't trivial?

I take it you're concern is about the Iron and other various Vitamin content. What about the Gene Alteration, Herbicides and Antibiotics? The Fast Grow Hormones, Bigger in the least amount of time is money in their pocket and has nothing to do with why our children are 6 ft tall with Big Feet, Fat, Lazy, No Ambition and see the Doctor every 2nd week. They don't have a clue what homework is as they expect everything to be feed to them on a silver spoon and that's what their getting.

Growing up in Northern Ontario loving the Cambrian Shield, I worked most my youth on my Uncles Farm in Southern Ontario and know what's it's like to Hay, Clean out Barns and Spread Manure where my southern city cousins would have nothing to do with it. From 200 Angus, 400 Dorsets, 100 Pigs a few Horses, Goats and 25000 Hens I saw what my Uncle went through as a Dutch Farmer in Cookstown, Ontario Canada trying to make a living.

To days children grow up without concept that work equals sufficient living and happiness and Food off the land was much Healthier back then.

 

[Gibsons]

I take it you're concern is about the Iron and other various Vitamin content.

That was OP's question.

the vitamineral nutritional info of vegetables

So, that's what some of us are talking about.

 

[Z15CAM]

That was OP's question.

Well the answer not all that simple as their are to many variables to day. By the mid 70's the Co-Operative changed everything in favor for the Share Holder's Profit and Gov't Policies along with Copyright Laws Governed the Farmer.

Sure labels can show Vitamin content but it's only a mask of the underlying issue.

I'm not a Genealogists, Biologists nor a Botanists so you don't have to heed what a Mathematician, Physicists, Chemists or Historian has to say.

My biggest mentor was Miss Fliss, my Grade 10 to grade 13 English teacher. She failed my English year after year professing I didn't read literature but I was market 100% in grammar and my 90+% grade average passed me to the next year which aggravated her until I agreed to quit reading Tolkien, Bradberry, Dunsany, Donaldson, Stewart, Castaneda ...etc and all volumes of the Encyclopedias, Britannica, Americana and Canadianna plus Popular Science and concentrated on Shakespeare, Dickens, Twain ...etc, so she could endorse my English. She loved Poetry - Yuk! - And why? To day, I have fond memories of that Woman. She taught me how me to write and speak cognitively so others would enjoy.

MY professional job ended up as a Traffic Controller for the CNR (Train Dispatcher). I'm also a Licensed Auto Mechanic and still ride an Italian 1971 Laverda 750SF. Married once. She came with 3 and we had 3 so I raised 6 children and happy to say none of whom have fallen into the Obesity Trap and now a proud Grandfather.

I've been playing with computers since 1971, from the days of Fortran and Key Punch Cards.

"If you call me Grandpa, I'll kill you" ;o)

 

[DrPizza]

I take it you're concern is about the Iron and other various Vitamin content. What about the Gene Alteration, Herbicides and Antibiotics? The Fast Grow Hormones, Bigger in the least amount of time is money in their pocket and has nothing to do with why our children are 6 ft tall with Big Feet, Fat, Lazy, No Ambition and see the Doctor every 2nd week. They don't have a clue what homework is as they expect everything to be feed to them on a silver spoon and that's what their getting.

Growing up in Northern Ontario loving the Cambrian Shield, I worked most my youth on my Uncles Farm in Southern Ontario and know what's it's like to Hay, Clean out Barns and Spread Manure where my southern city cousins would have nothing to do with it. From 200 Angus, 400 Dorsets, 100 Pigs a few Horses, Goats and 25000 Hens I saw what my Uncle went through as a Dutch Farmer in Cookstown, Ontario Canada trying to make a living.

To days children grow up without concept that work equals sufficient living and happiness and Food off the land was much Healthier back then.

Do you have any links to back this assertion?

And, in case you think your education & experience is unique in this thread, several of the other posters are very educated. I've probably got about 4 more years of college than you have. I also own a farm, love to hay, don't mind cleaning barns and manure; not as big a farm as your uncle, but I'm pretty much the only labor 365 days of the year (except when I hire someone to feed animals while I'm on vacation.) I agree with you wholeheartedly about the younger generation & working. Every old farmer I know says that years ago, kids were crawling out of the woodwork to spend a few days working on hay for extra money. Now, anything more labor intensive than flipping a burger or pushing buttons on their game controller, and they want little to do with it. Not that there aren't kids who enjoy working hard - they're pretty rare these days though. Nonetheless, this is irrelevant to the OP's topic of conversation, beyond the first sentence in this reply. (sorry)

 

[Z15CAM]

Do you have any links to back this assertion?

Watch Food Inc: http://viooz.co/movies/2153-food-inc-2008.html

 

[KeithP]

Watch Food Inc: http://viooz.co/movies/2153-food-inc-2008.html

Then watch this Penn & Teller Episode *NSFW* http://youtu.be/ku6m0TF9CUg

-KeithP

 

[Z15CAM]

Although I don't always agree, I like P&T B&lls#@t and don't get me wrong that I don't believe Science and Genetically Engineered Crops are not the answer for feeding the increasing world population but I hate the leverage Monopoly Co's like Monsanto influence politics creating laws that fix prices, control supply and killed the Gregorian Family Farm and way of life.

I remember when you could buy 100lbs of real Grade A potatoes from a local farm for a dollar as compared to the Pig Feed labelled as Grade A today from these monstrous Food Stores for ridiculously high prices, 1/2 of which are rotten and there's no way you can convince me that a Hydrophobic Tomato ripped by ethylene has the flavor of a naturally grown tomato.

I see the benefit of the way food is engineered and harvested today and for the future but guess I'm just getting old and recall a time when farming was part of the community and not hidden behind massive factory complexes as it is now.

 

[who?]

Years ago somebody misplaced a decimal point and thought that spinach had ten times as much iron as it really does.This means that Popeyes transformation was actually from the placebo effect.

 

[soccerballtux]

my point about fiber being counted as calories is that fiber doesn't burn, your body passes it. So the calorie count is off on all foods with fiber (important for high fiber healthy foods like veggies fruit etc).

So do we have any meaningful data on this? Surely someone has studied the variance? Bueler? Maybe I should get grant to do this?

 

[Gibsons]

my point about fiber being counted as calories is that fiber doesn't burn, your body passes it. So the calorie count is off on all foods with fiber (important for high fiber healthy foods like veggies fruit etc).

So do we have any meaningful data on this? Surely someone has studied the variance? Bueler? Maybe I should get grant to do this?

The Atwater system is supposed to adjust for the digestability of foods, ie compensate for loss to gas, solid or liquid waste.

How well it works is debatable, but probably good enough.

 

[soccerballtux]

The Atwater system is supposed to adjust for the digestability of foods, ie compensate for loss to gas, solid or liquid waste.

How well it works is debatable, but probably good enough.

oh cool.