How do we break society off the government teet?

[sandorski]

Which will not, and can not, last forever.

Which is why Now is the best time to do it.

 

[piasabird]

It is govt regulation which causes all of the problems. What good does it do to have my car inspected by some stupid EPA Pollution Air station? I dont think it is worth doing this. It is a total waste of money. It is one of my pet pea's. So the EPA sets up these areas they say have heavy pollution. The problem is that pollution blows in and out of these areas and also vehicle owners drive from outside the are to the pollution zone to work. So the federal govt is selectively applying the laws to the people who live in the zone which is illegal and a violation of their constitutional rights. This is interference from the federal govt which does no good for anyone.

 

[nanette1985]

Make it possible to support self and family by working, without needing any handouts.

 

[Mursilis]

Make it possible to support self and family by working, without needing any handouts.

You're assuming all people want to work.

 

[sandorski]

You're assuming all people want to work.

The vast majority of the Unemployed do.

 

[nehalem256]

The vast majority of the Unemployed do.

No, they want a secure source of income to support themselves and their family in a reasonable(or more) lifestyle.

Typically employment is how you go about getting such a source of income. But if they were to say win the lottery I would bet that their desire for employment would plummet.

 

[BoberFett]

No, they want a secure source of income to support themselves and their family in a reasonable(or more) lifestyle.

Typically employment is how you go about getting such a source of income. But if they were to say win the lottery I would bet that their desire for employment would plummet.

This what the American left don't seem to understand. A job is a means to an end. If the creature comforts of life were supplied without effort, a vast percentage of people would choose not to work. Nobody wants to scrub toilets for 8 hours a day. What they want is food and shelter.

That's also why it's so funny that the left which supports things like welfare and unemployment is so quick to attack me for sitting on unemployment. Trust me, if I don't have to work I'm not going to. If I do have to work, I'm going to make sure I have the best paying job I can. If I've gotta put in 40 hours a week, might as well get the highest compensation I can. But if I can live a slightly lower lifestyle but all of my time is my own, I'm willing to make that trade off. I think a lot of people feel the same way.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-funemployment4-2009jun04,0,7581684.story

 

[Steeplerot]

It is govt regulation which causes all of the problems. What good does it do to have my car inspected by some stupid EPA Pollution Air station? I dont think it is worth doing this. It is a total waste of money. It is one of my pet pea's. So the EPA sets up these areas they say have heavy pollution. The problem is that pollution blows in and out of these areas and also vehicle owners drive from outside the are to the pollution zone to work. So the federal govt is selectively applying the laws to the people who live in the zone which is illegal and a violation of their constitutional rights. This is interference from the federal govt which does no good for anyone.

Except that some of us remember well when the skies would pour lead on trees and burn the land with acid rain. Before those EPA stations and evil gubbermunt regulation you hate so much. Just because you are ignorant does not make something useless.

Useless is the corporate PR crap like " government is always the problem" you regurgitate like a good little consumerist bs swallowing drone.

 

[Munky]

We can sit here and theorize all day, but I realistically don't see it happening until the government teet runs dry and society is forced off. The issue is a manifestation of just about every other problem in society.

You can't trust the politicians to regulate themselves. Can't trust the banks to regulate themselves. And can't trust the Average Joe to regulate himself.

 

[Steeplerot]

We can sit here and theorize all day, but I realistically don't see it happening until the government teet runs dry and society is forced off. The issue is a manifestation of just about every other problem in society.

You can't trust the politicians to regulate themselves. Can't trust the banks to regulate themselves. And can't trust the Average Joe to regulate himself.

The best bet that works is to shame these corporate/govt crooks when they pull stunts publicly. (IE Watergate scandal)

Problem is the media is totally bought out now. Good luck getting them to regulate themselves and lose access to politicians and go against the profit motive that now drives the only real tool of a informed democracy that can balance these messes.

The forth estate is compromised and more worried about flashy lights/divisive rhetoric for ratings like a jerry springer show, thus we the people are blind/distracted and falling into the blame one another trap while the top rob us all.

 

[berzerker60]

Before we go getting too apocalyptic in here, let's get some perspective. Things have been WAY worse for our country, and are WAY worse in plenty of other places right now.
https://www.google.com/search?q=gre...GciWiALpqIDYDQ&ved=0CFcQsAQ&biw=1396&bih=1051

 

[alkemyst]

Make it possible to support self and family by working, without needing any handouts.

You can. The problem comes from everyone thinking they get the luxury items included.

If you have to end up on minimum wage you will have to coexist with others.

If you don't like that idea, there are tons of countries that will take in Americans.

 

[berzerker60]

If you don't like that idea, there are tons of countries that will take in Americans.

Basically I agree with your post, but this part is only sort of true. Most first-world countries (most definitely including America) are a huge pain in the ass to be allowed to work in and/or become a citizen, sometimes even if you're married to a citizen. "Love it or leave it" isn't a good argument even if there were other countries yearning for hard-working Americans, but we're not the only country with serious unemployment problems right now - in fact, we have it pretty good compared to a lot of Europe.

 

[Sonikku]

We need to get rid of all the disability/medicare/medicaid freebies. Once the people are weened off of that all we need to do is allow nature to take it's course and those able to work will and those too lazy to will return to heaven, where they can be happy with Jesus while we don't have to support them with our tax dollars. Everyone wins.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Bottom line: there is a finite amount of money on the planet. It is distributed among the total population somehow. Wealth is now concentrated at a level that gives some too much and many not enough. The ONLY way to get money to the many is to take it from the few, or reduce the number the total pool of money is shared between. Credit GREATLY exacerbates the problem by hiding it, and essentially devaluing existing money (ie charging interest on money without increasing the total number of goods/services in circulation). When that crash hits (and it will...soon) we're going to tank FAR faster and FAR further than ever before.

In other words, we can put the tax level truly progressive (topping at about 75%) or we can kill a billion people. NOTHING else will work.

 

[Jhhnn]

When will society be weaned off the govt teat? Which part of society? The military-industrial complex? The bailed out banksters? Rich PE & hedge fund managers & investors who exploit the law to loot otherwise viable companies?

Or just working stiffs & wannabe working stiffs whose share of national income has plummeted?

Given that the capitalist teat has been increasingly hoarded by the rich, rather than shared with the majority of Americans, maybe the answer lies in people being able to get more milk from that... in being empowered to push aside the biggest & greediest to get a better share...

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Correct. This quote has also been attributed to others:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler
http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/465.Alexis_de_Tocqueville

Irrespective of the source, I do tend to agree with it. Why do people hate congress but love their congressperson? Said congressperson brings home enough .gov goodies to the district.

I've always thought it was Tocqueville, who had many interesting things to say.

There are many men of principle in both parties in America, but there is no party of principle.

“I do not know if the people of the United States would vote for superior men if they ran for office, but there can be no doubt that such men do not run.”

 

[berzerker60]

Bottom line: there is a finite amount of money on the planet. It is distributed among the total population somehow. Wealth is now concentrated at a level that gives some too much and many not enough. The ONLY way to get money to the many is to take it from the few, or reduce the number the total pool of money is shared between. Credit GREATLY exacerbates the problem by hiding it, and essentially devaluing existing money (ie charging interest on money without increasing the total number of goods/services in circulation). When that crash hits (and it will...soon) we're going to tank FAR faster and FAR further than ever before.

In other words, we can put the tax level truly progressive (topping at about 75%) or we can kill a billion people. NOTHING else will work.

There's not really a finite amount of money though. The economy continues to expand as more people are born, people become more productive through technology and social norms, and new sectors of the economy come into existence (ie Internet stuff, electricity stuff in the 20th century, etc). As such, we print money to match the growing economy. It's entirely possible for the rich today to be very very rich in terms of meeting their material wants forever, while ALSO raising the level of everyone else's lifestyle, if the economic growth goes to their pockets through higher wages and so forth.

However, for the past several decades, the entirety of the country's economic growth has gone to the 1%. THAT is why we need strongly progressive taxation and a high estate tax.

 

[PrinceofWands]

There's not really a finite amount of money though. The economy continues to expand as more people are born, people become more productive through technology and social norms, and new sectors of the economy come into existence (ie Internet stuff, electricity stuff in the 20th century, etc). As such, we print money to match the growing economy. It's entirely possible for the rich today to be very very rich in terms of meeting their material wants forever, while ALSO raising the level of everyone else's lifestyle, if the economic growth goes to their pockets through higher wages and so forth.

However, for the past several decades, the entirety of the country's economic growth has gone to the 1%. THAT is why we need strongly progressive taxation and a high estate tax.

Semi true, except that it no longer takes more people to make more product. Technology has thrown the curve, which means people without work or a means of supporting themselves. So more people sharing resources, with more and more not able (or needing) to produce. Then throw in the credit lie devaluation, and you're left with an unsustainable economy. No economy can grow perpetually...the goal MUST be sustainability instead.

 

[shadow9d9]

Deregulation of the banking industry just caused a worldwide economic collapse and there are still lunatics suggesting that we regulate too much and that THAT is the problem.

You can take away government assistance... but prepare to pay for the added crime and dealing with the homeless dying on the streets.

It is wishful thinking to think that people can or will take care of themselves. It wasn't as needed in the past because people don't live as long.. now they do...



This thread is simply an insane right wing circle jerk about nonexistent american "liberals." Our democrats are to the right of conservatives in every other first world country and continue to move more to the right everyday. The republicans have pulled so far towards the cliff of the right that ANYTHING differing from talking points is labelled the mythical "liberal" oppressing them.

 

[Jhhnn]

Semi true, except that it no longer takes more people to make more product. Technology has thrown the curve, which means people without work or a means of supporting themselves. So more people sharing resources, with more and more not able (or needing) to produce. Then throw in the credit lie devaluation, and you're left with an unsustainable economy. No economy can grow perpetually...the goal MUST be sustainability instead.

"Growth" is the only thing that lets us sustain our illusions about what extreme & growing financial inequality is doing to our society & our economy.

Without "growth", the siphoning off & hoarding of vast liquidity by the financial elite would devastate the economy & working America in a debt/deflation spiral.

There is, of course, no better time to be rich than in that scenario, no better opportunity for them to rule. It was only the advent of the New Deal that prevented it 80 years ago, and only the adoption of something similar that will prevent it today.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

This what the American left don't seem to understand. A job is a means to an end. If the creature comforts of life were supplied without effort, a vast percentage of people would choose not to work. Nobody wants to scrub toilets for 8 hours a day. What they want is food and shelter.

That's also why it's so funny that the left which supports things like welfare and unemployment is so quick to attack me for sitting on unemployment. Trust me, if I don't have to work I'm not going to. If I do have to work, I'm going to make sure I have the best paying job I can. If I've gotta put in 40 hours a week, might as well get the highest compensation I can. But if I can live a slightly lower lifestyle but all of my time is my own, I'm willing to make that trade off. I think a lot of people feel the same way.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-funemployment4-2009jun04,0,7581684.story

The gap between "all the creature comforts of life" and what you get from welfare/unemployment is pretty big, not sure how they relate.

ANd unemployment doesnt last, so I dont see how its a big motivator.

The article you linked talked about workaholics who needed a break and others who got big buyouts.

Oh and Id love to see those people interviewed today.

 

[trenchfoot]

We need to get rid of all the disability/medicare/medicaid freebies. Once the people are weened off of that all we need to do is allow nature to take it's course and those able to work will and those too lazy to will return to heaven, where they can be happy with Jesus while we don't have to support them with our tax dollars. Everyone wins.

You are the most honest Conservative on these boards. Thanks for saying what most other righties feel but instead use distant hints and vague suggestive language. I like your style: direct and succinct. You've shown all of us what a true conservative feels deep down inside.:thumbsup:

 

[Pr0d1gy]

The problem is that while Sophitia is telling you the truth you all think the left is somehow going to save us. They are working together to make this happen. Here is a breakdown of what is actually happening in your country right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvoZCtpYCRI

We are IN STAGE 3. Once they take our guns then you know we are heading into stage 4 most likely. Our leaders are unhappy with our choices with our given freedom and have been, for decades, preparing to turn us into another Russia/China. They want us all to work, they just don't want to pay us. They want to cut costs and increase productivity, ever heard that before? It's because those are the propagandist lies they have been filtering down through their sheep for decades.

WAKE UP!

 

[trenchfoot]

The problem is that while Sophitia is telling you the truth you all think the left is somehow going to save us. They are working together to make this happen. Here is a breakdown of what is actually happening in your country right now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvoZCtpYCRI

We are IN STAGE 3. Once they take our guns then you know we are heading into stage 4 most likely. Our leaders are unhappy with our choices with our given freedom and have been, for decades, preparing to turn us into another Russia/China. They want us all to work, they just don't want to pay us. They want to cut costs and increase productivity, ever heard that before? It's because those are the propagandist lies they have been filtering down through their sheep for decades.

WAKE UP!

Duly noted.