Question how do sellers of fake memory cards get away with it so easily?

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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My ego makes me want to point out that I'm not annoyed because I've fallen for them (well, not since a long time ago, when I first bought memory cards - so long ago that 8gb was an impressive size), rather what annoys me is that the epidemic of fakes out there it makes it pointless to look for any sort of bargain, or buy a card second-hand. All the fakes being sold pretty much destroys any second-hand market for cards.

Basically I only buy cards supplied and shipped by Amazon, mostly when they have a sale on (even then had one one bad one once - bad-sector rather than a fake). That's the only source I feel I can risk using. Oh, and at one point a big-name bricks-and-mortar retailer had some on sale that were worth getting, but mainly it's Amazon or nothing. This means I probably pay more than I have to, but there's no competition becuase everywhere else is either too slow to reduce prices as they come down for larger capacities, or they are full of obvious fakes.

It's really annoying that it makes Ebay useless for such things. Anything that isn't expensive is far too likely to be fake to be worth bothering with. It's one of several product categories I would never buy on Ebay.

I find it especially ridiculous that you get sellers offering nonsense like 1Tb micro sd cards for $10. In fact the fakers were doing that even before there were any 1TB cards being manufactured by anyone! Who is buying such obviously too-good-to-be-true items?

Furthermore, why do the obviously-dodgy ebay sellers get so much positive feedback, seemingly from people who don't bother to test a card before saying how great it is (same seems to happen with Amazon reviews)?

Usually you just get a small number of buyers who leave negative feedback and point out they tested the card properly and, hey, it's a fake, while loads of others seem to just leave +ve feedback as soon as the card arrives, without doing any testing. Most buyers seem to be too clueless to use h2testw or similar. I never see anyone commenting that they tested with h2testw and the card passed.

I get why Ebay (and Amazon, though they aren't as bad) can't be bothered to police any of the third-party sellers on their site over such things. It would cost them money. But why are buyers so dumb as to effectively collude with fraudsters?

How come, this late in the day, the issue of fake cards is still, apparently, not sufficiently well-known that all buyers will test a card before leaving a positive review/feedback? I still see comments by buyers saying that their device reports the full capacity, ergo it must be a good card.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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Maybe devices should come with some sort of flash-card testing app pre-installed, that will request to run as soon as a blank card is inserted?
I just got memory from a 3rd party on Amazon. If I would have read your post first, I would have looked elsewhere.


Well, I'm not saying it's guarenteed to be a fake! Unless it was one of those ridiculously cheap ones. But my point is that the risk is such that it distorts the market, any good sellers will be penalised because of the effect of all the bad sellers. And the only way to filter out the bad sellers is if all buyers test a card properly before leaving any feedback. That so many apparently don't, ruins the effectiveness of feedback/review systems.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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Maybe devices should come with some sort of flash-card testing app pre-installed, that will request to run as soon as a blank card is inserted?



Well, I'm not saying it's guarenteed to be a fake! Unless it was one of those ridiculously cheap ones. But my point is that the risk is such that it distorts the market, any good sellers will be penalised because of the effect of all the bad sellers.
What I got appears to be fine, but I didn't even look to see I was getting it from a 3rd party. I'm sure that's part of the problem.

 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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What I got appears to be fine, but I didn't even look to see I was getting it from a 3rd party. I'm sure that's part of the problem.


But you seem to be talking about DDR desktop memory. I'm talking about flash memory cards - entirely different issue. I don't know of a problem with fakery with traditional RAM. It's SD and micro SD cards that have the problem.
(So you were probably entirely safe! Any issue would presumably just be normal questions about quality-control, that apply to every product...not deliberate fakery)
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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There's always going to be a certain segment of society that gets in over their head, doing things before they are competent. This same strategy at life could account for leaving a review prematurely.

Then again, many of the reviews could be fake, and on amazon or ebay, lumped together with reviews from other legit sellers, or even same seller who sold legit product to generate the reviews before switching to fake product. It's a complex game these scammers can play because they have more time than resources at their disposal.

A small time seller usually can't undercut volume sellers on new commodity items like those where the majority of the value comes from memory chips. Selling at cost would make no sense and they have higher overhead. I'd never buy new commodity items from a small time seller. Used item maybe, but not so much flash memory since the price:capacity drops over time and the whole finite write cycle thing.

That goes for anything commodity oriented. I would never buy major brand coffee, makeup, detergent, etc from a 3rd party low volume seller. They probably got it out of a dumpster somewhere if it's not fake.

How do they get away with it? Take the money and run. Set up new storefronts, multiple storefronts, multiple places, and sometimes they don't get away with it but you have to be diligent about pursuing problematic products in a timely manner.
 
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VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
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Yeah, I would NEVER buy any sort of flash-based memory product off of ebay, EXCEPT for 1st-party sellers, such as Newegg, BestBuy, and probably Adorama / AdoramaCamera (not sure which username they use). Also, A-data, EVGA, and PNY's official stores. (I think that Biostar may have an official store too, but they're so small-time, I wouldn't personally bother.) I don't know if Samsung sells SSDs though an official store-front on ebay or not. They do have their web-site.

I primarily stick to both Newegg and BestBuy for my flash drive / memory-card needs, and stick to branded items, sold 1st-party (no marketplace sellers, such as on Newegg), both on their own sites and on / through ebay. Haven't been burned that I know of, other than the occasional poor QC of Adata (several DOAs... I buy in bulk and just toss the bad ones.)
 
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Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
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But you seem to be talking about DDR desktop memory. I'm talking about flash memory cards - entirely different issue. I don't know of a problem with fakery with traditional RAM. It's SD and micro SD cards that have the problem.
(So you were probably entirely safe! Any issue would presumably just be normal questions about quality-control, that apply to every product...not deliberate fakery)
Wow, I feel like a dumba@% now. Oh well, thanks for the info.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
17,916
838
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Yeah, I would NEVER buy any sort of flash-based memory product off of ebay, EXCEPT for 1st-party sellers, such as Newegg, BestBuy, and probably Adorama / AdoramaCamera (not sure which username they use). Also, A-data, EVGA, and PNY's official stores. (I think that Biostar may have an official store too, but they're so small-time, I wouldn't personally bother.) I don't know if Samsung sells SSDs though an official store-front on ebay or not. They do have their web-site.

I primarily stick to both Newegg and BestBuy for my flash drive / memory-card needs, and stick to branded items, sold 1st-party (no marketplace sellers, such as on Newegg), both on their own sites and on / through ebay. Haven't been burned that I know of, other than the occasional poor QC of Adata (several DOAs... I buy in bulk and just toss the bad ones.)
Yeah, I wouldn't buy flash drives off ebay either. I usually buy from Amazon, Bestbuy, or Newegg, pretty much in that order.
 

Steltek

Diamond Member
Mar 29, 2001
3,042
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Maybe devices should come with some sort of flash-card testing app pre-installed, that will request to run as soon as a blank card is inserted?



Well, I'm not saying it's guarenteed to be a fake! Unless it was one of those ridiculously cheap ones. But my point is that the risk is such that it distorts the market, any good sellers will be penalised because of the effect of all the bad sellers. And the only way to filter out the bad sellers is if all buyers test a card properly before leaving any feedback. That so many apparently don't, ruins the effectiveness of feedback/review systems.

There isn't a way to quickly test them as most fake cards normally work initially because the scammers cross-flash a higher capacity firmware onto the card to make say a 1GB card into a 256GB card. It will still validly read/write that first gig of data, and the buyer doesn't know they have a problem until they try to write more than 1GB of data to it, at which time it corrupts everything on the card and it dies. Because the card has the wrong firmware on it, any quick test tool is going to report what the firmware says and not what the actual flash card capacity is. There is really no way to actually test it other than a live write test writing files to it up to the labeled capacity of the flash drive.
 
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mindless1

Diamond Member
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^ And that's a good test to do, especially if you want to also weed out poor designs where extended writes cause overheating and a substantial drop in performance like Sandisk Ultra Fit/Flair USB3 flash drives.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
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There isn't a way to quickly test them as most fake cards normally work initially because the scammers cross-flash a higher capacity firmware onto the card to make say a 1GB card into a 256GB card. It will still validly read/write that first gig of data, and the buyer doesn't know they have a problem until they try to write more than 1GB of data to it, at which time it corrupts everything on the card and it dies. Because the card has the wrong firmware on it, any quick test tool is going to report what the firmware says and not what the actual flash card capacity is. There is really no way to actually test it other than a live write test writing files to it up to the labeled capacity of the flash drive.

Well, yes, but that's exactly the test I was thinking of! e.g. h2testw. My point is that a suprising number of buyers don't seem to be aware of how fakes work so don't do that test at all before saying 'great, would buy again!'

Though, sure, that's a tediously time-consuming test, but it would surely be of some value to save time and just write every Nth sector or a certain fraction of the card or something (I think I heard of a card-testing utility that does that?) as usually with fakes the true capacity is a tiny fraction of the reported one, hence many fakes would be detected fairly quickly. If all card buyers were encouraged to do that it would make life much harder for the bad sellers, I would have thought.
 

mindless1

Diamond Member
Aug 11, 2001
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^ Only when you call amazon on it as a defrauded buyer.

If you make posts about fraudulent products in listings, to warn people, you get perma-banned from amazon, with no appeal. Ask me how I know. ;)

There's nothing like censorship to cover up fraud.

Bezos could pull a Bill Gates move and try to make the world a better place, but he doesn't seem to realize his mortality yet, still wants to be a mini-Hitler. We all know that turned out well.
 
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killster1

Banned
Mar 15, 2007
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There isn't a way to quickly test them as most fake cards normally work initially because the scammers cross-flash a higher capacity firmware onto the card to make say a 1GB card into a 256GB card. It will still validly read/write that first gig of data, and the buyer doesn't know they have a problem until they try to write more than 1GB of data to it, at which time it corrupts everything on the card and it dies. Because the card has the wrong firmware on it, any quick test tool is going to report what the firmware says and not what the actual flash card capacity is. There is really no way to actually test it other than a live write test writing files to it up to the labeled capacity of the flash drive.
of course there are programs to write to every bit of the card and determine if its fake, i use the program each time i buy a card before placing my data onto the card.


i use 2 of those from the list work nicely. hilarious, yes they sell either a different item get feedback or switch to a fake or purhaps they hack the account. no idea but its not from people buying the fake memory and not testing (ok maybe 1-5% but what reason would they jump to give feedback?)
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,050
7,978
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of course there are programs to write to every bit of the card and determine if its fake, i use the program each time i buy a card before placing my data onto the card.


i use 2 of those from the list work nicely. hilarious, yes they sell either a different item get feedback or switch to a fake or purhaps they hack the account. no idea but its not from people buying the fake memory and not testing (ok maybe 1-5% but what reason would they jump to give feedback?)


Seems impossible to determine who is right, but I think it's more plausible that many buyers just don't test and don't know about fakes, than sellers being able to fake ebay or amazon feedback like that.

One bit of evidence is that I almost never see any amazon or ebay reviewer giving +ve feedback saying they did test it properly and it passed. If a buyer mentions h2testw at all it's to say it failed.

Further evidence is having discussions on tech help forums for various gadgets where people are having problems and it turns out it's because they are using a fake card, but they are convinced it must be fine because the device reports the 'correct' size - most seem to have no idea that cards can claim to have a false size.

Actually Ebay in general is a pretty annoying site, I keep resolving to stop using it.

It's full of people gaming the system, at least in certain product categories, gives very little protection to honest sellers, and they clearly spend the absolute bare minimum they can get away with on policing the site. The fees are very high also. Amazon is marginally better, but not by a lot.

Though it is interesting to me that different categories of product seem to attract very different types of buyer and seller, in terms of rudeness or ruthlessness.
 
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