How do PhD programs work in the UK?

[tokie]

So, I'm Canadian and understand the North American PhD system (admission, core courses, dissertation, etc).

I'm trying to look at some schools in the UK but some of them make no sense to me. There is absolutely no information about admission, but there are "research posts"? Some of them just list research interests and faculty. This seems to be happening at all schools, big and small. I just keep getting redirected to a "prospectus" which does absolutely nothing for me. Am I supposed to be getting in personal contact with profs there?

This is for PhD in Statistics btw. Also, if anyone here is knowledgeable about the field, how do the top UK schools rate in comparison to the North American ones?

 

[Mark R]

PhD in the UK tends to be a research degree, with less emphasis on formal teaching components.

Most universities do have some information on their web sites under 'postgraduate studies'. However, because these are not taught courses - the student is expected to determine the direction of their study and research themselves and by discussion with their supervisor - there isn't a formal curriculum as such. Therefore, you tend to find relatively limited information in the prospectus: e.g. this. (Not a recommendation, just the first attempt I made for looking up PhD opportunities in statistics).

Because application tends to be by resume/letter to the relevant department, it is very helpful to know what their specialist field or research is, or if you have a different idea, whether they would be suitably qualified to supervise you. It's therefore often helpful to have some personal correspondence with the profs themselves.

I can't really offer terribly much detailed information, as I didn't do a PhD myself - although I did do my other degrees in the UK.

 

[Mike Gayner]

This thread makes me wonder WTF a PhD is in North America? Do you just do a couple more years of classes and exams or something? Here a PhD requires you to undertake a research role and prepare a thesis.

 

[xanis]

This thread makes me wonder WTF a PhD is in North America? Do you just do a couple more years of classes and exams or something? Here a PhD requires you to undertake a research role and prepare a thesis.

You have to undertake a research role and prepare a thesis here as well.

 

[Itchrelief]

This thread makes me wonder WTF a PhD is in North America? Do you just do a couple more years of classes and exams or something? Here a PhD requires you to undertake a research role and prepare a thesis.

/Gayner

Do you not know WTF a dissertation is???

/Gayner

 

[daw123]

It depends on the subject, but generally Oxford then Cambridge are seen as being the best universities in the UK.

Edit. A general league table: http://extras.timesonline.co.uk/tol_gug/gooduniversityguide.php

League tables based on subject (the one shown is mathematics; the closest thing to statistics, I suppose):
http://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/single.htm?ipg=6643

 

[onlyCOpunk]

Research and thesis are pretty much what they are here, as far a mathematical type PhD goes, not sure as far as healthcare. But it's basically comprised of your own guided research a thesis and teaching.

If I were you I would get in touch department heads in your field and talk to them about it as they will be able to fully guide you.

 

[GoSharks]

This thread makes me wonder WTF a PhD is in North America? Do you just do a couple more years of classes and exams or something? Here a PhD requires you to undertake a research role and prepare a thesis.

PhD programs in the US include a course component that may or may not be waived if you enter with a Master degree. Usually that course component is the equivalent of at least one year as a full time, course-attending student, but is spread out so that your research activities aren't entirely impeded.

 

[LordMorpheus]

PhD programs in the US include a course component that may or may not be waived if you enter with a Master degree. Usually that course component is the equivalent of at least one year as a full time, course-attending student, but is spread out so that your research activities aren't entirely impeded.

It's program by program. In mine (Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering at Cornell) there is no course requirement.

In any program, you usually will only take one or two years of two or three courses a semester, while working on your research, before you focus 100% on your research.

And even though I'm not required to take courses, I took three last semester (my first) and just finished two this semester. All the courses are relevant to my research interests, and give a nice reasonable structure within which to learn the material, which is a better solution (sanity wise) than sitting down with textbooks and papers and trying to figure it out for myself in a week or two.

I probably won't take more than one course (edit: per semester) for the rest of my time here.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Interesting. I had no idea they were that different. I thought this type of shit was standardized across the planet. Kinda scary that they're not.

 

[Born2bwire]

Mark R pretty much stated what I know of it myself. I do not really like the lack of course requirements myself. There are some advanced subjects outside my discipline that I would like to learn more about in regards to my research. But with the lack of course requirements for post-graduates, there are no classes that are offered that I could take to supplement my knowledge. However, I know that at US universities such courses are offered.

 

[GoSharks]

It's program by program. In mine (Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering at Cornell) there is no course requirement.

In any program, you usually will only take one or two years of two or three courses a semester, while working on your research, before you focus 100% on your research.

And even though I'm not required to take courses, I took three last semester (my first) and just finished two this semester. All the courses are relevant to my research interests, and give a nice reasonable structure within which to learn the material, which is a better solution (sanity wise) than sitting down with textbooks and papers and trying to figure it out for myself in a week or two.

I probably won't take more than one course for the rest of my time here.

You're in the program so you know best, but can you really get by going straight from a BS to PhD without taking any courses? Hm... I suppose that would work if you studied for quals independently...

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

Mark R pretty much stated what I know of it myself. I do not really like the lack of course requirements myself. There are some advanced subjects outside my discipline that I would like to learn more about in regards to my research. But with the lack of course requirements for post-graduates, there are no classes that are offered that I could take to supplement my knowledge. However, I know that at US universities such courses are offered.

Over here there are postgraduate courses but they are not prescribed for PhD (but are for Masters/Honors). So a PhD student certainly still has access to high level course material.

 

[CycloWizard]

An engineering PhD in the US usually requires 72 semester hours of graduate credit, half each of research and coursework. This usually takes 4-6 years, though it can be less if you enter with a masters or other coursework which might transfer.

In the UK, the DPhil in engineering is strictly a research degree which nominally has a term of 3 years but can be extended (and usually is now) to 4 years. I got my PhD in the US, but have spent time at Oxford since and this is the way it was explained to me by the grad students there.

 

[LordMorpheus]

You're in the program so you know best, but can you really get by going straight from a BS to PhD without taking any courses? Hm... I suppose that would work if you studied for quals independently...

As I said, I've taken five so far. What I meant at the end was I won't take more than one course / semester from here on out now that I've spent most of my first year doing courses.

 

[Born2bwire]

Over here there are postgraduate courses but they are not prescribed for PhD (but are for Masters/Honors). So a PhD student certainly still has access to high level course material.

There are some post-graduate courses being offered, but the universities here, which are modeled after the UK system, do not offer the breadth or depth of post-graduate course offerings that I have seen at major universities in the States. In addition to the typical advanced course topics, some of the courses are special topics done in the pet research areas of the lecturer. Still, they are very useful for those that are doing interdisplinary research or if there are a number of students interested in a common area of research. The last US university that I was at has implemented stronger course requirements for graduate students in an effort to instill a wider variety of knowledge and skills.

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

There are some post-graduate courses being offered, but the universities here, which are modeled after the UK system, do not offer the breadth or depth of post-graduate course offerings that I have seen at major universities in the States. In addition to the typical advanced course topics, some of the courses are special topics done in the pet research areas of the lecturer. Still, they are very useful for those that are doing interdisplinary research or if there are a number of students interested in a common area of research. The last US university that I was at has implemented stronger course requirements for graduate students in an effort to instill a wider variety of knowledge and skills.

I haven't looked at US universities in detail but I think it's probably the same deal here - graduate course offerings can be sparse.

 

[GoSharks]

As I said, I've taken five so far. What I meant at the end was I won't take more than one course / semester from here on out now that I've spent most of my first year doing courses.

Your first post seemed to imply that there was no requirement to take courses while completing your program, similar to the UK style.

 

[tokie]

Research and thesis are pretty much what they are here, as far a mathematical type PhD goes, not sure as far as healthcare. But it's basically comprised of your own guided research a thesis and teaching.

If I were you I would get in touch department heads in your field and talk to them about it as they will be able to fully guide you.

Hmmm, I guess I understand how it works now. Still very weird that even in Statistics it seems there are no course requirements, and I don't see anything about qualifying exams. I guess I will have to email departments to get info.

 

[onlyCOpunk]

Yeah I know it's a bit weird to think of but that's the way it is in the Commonwealths.

This being the case, you should also investigate the international credibility of the University you are attending because I have a feeling some professional bodies in Canada would choose not to hold an overseas PhD in high regard, unless you are planning to establish a life in the UK out of your studies. Then again Canada isn't as up itself as the US so it might be a different situation.

Also depending on what type of research you choose to do there are grants and sometimes a wage involved...

 

[LordMorpheus]

Your first post seemed to imply that there was no requirement to take courses while completing your program, similar to the UK style.

Oh, right. There is no requirement. If you come in with a masters and years of experience and taking courses would be a waste, you don't have to.

If you come in with a BS and only a couple years industry experience like me, you don't have to take courses but you'd be an idiot not to.

to me this system makes sense. Getting a Ph.D. is not about completing enough credits for the degree, it's about making your original contribution to the field. Everything about the program exists to teach and prepare you to do work at that level. Requiring courses would be silly - if the student needs a course (or if the advisor thinks the student needs a course), the student will find and take the course. Requirements would inevitably lead to students wasting a ton of time taking courses that aren't relevant to their interest or research just to fulfill a bunch of bureaucratic requirements. It would just be a bunch of red tape.