How do people work car salesmen down in price?

[dxkj]

Ok I cant find my old post, will re-write it up.

1) Go near the end of the month, salesmen need quotas, and they will move their cars if they have to.

2) Buy right before the next year model comes in. You will be able to research and know the quality of this car, and know what to expect from it, and they want to move these ones off the lots

3) Look up invoice on at least TWO different sites... some sites do vary for some reason. Dealers don't usually pay invoice, so don't buy into their BS.

4) Look up incentives, find anything you can use to take money off that the dealer won't mind

5) Do not discuss monthly amounts, or down payments, or trade ins, thats not what is being discussed, you want the price.

6) If they start adding on fees, doing weird stuff, just walk

7) Do it all over the phone at first, with as many dealerships as possible. I think one car I bought I had 10 dealerships being worked over. Some dealerships wont deal, you can knock them off the list early. It is obvious when someone is hungry for a sale, exploit that.

There is almost no reason why you should pay over invoice on a car, especially if you use the above methods. If it is at the end of the month, you arent "ripping them off" you are giving them what they want, a sale. A car salesman would sell at sticker price to some unspecting person if they could, so if they are looking to maximize money to them, why shouldnt you be doing the same?

 

[radioouman]

I just tell the car salesman that I'm really not that interested in the car. It is an OK car, and it would suit my needs, but I really just don't need that car.
That tends to get the offer into the ballpark on their end.

Then I just sit there and continue to tell them that I am already approved for a loan of xxx amount which is the amount that I'm willing to pay for the car. That causes them to squirm a little, so they work on new financing methods, etc.

Then I go home without a car and without a deposit. I simply walk out.

I come back the next day, give the car another good going-over, and ask for another $150 or so off of their best offer. I tell them that I'll take it if they give me that additional money off (needs tires or broken foglight... something like that). They usually jump.

I show absolutely no signs of being desperate for a car. I show very little interest in the actual car itself, and I don't get excited about the car. It is simply transportation, and my current transportation has been fine for year, and will last a while longer if they can't get to my price.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

I know most of the above applies to more expensive (relatively) cars. How much would one expect to be abble to haggle down a vehicle with a 6k sticker price? I don't think there even is an invoice price in this case, right?

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: iamwiz82

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: iamwiz82
Employee purchase price is the best 🙂

They don't do that on the cars people actually want to buy though.

Do

Daimler Chrysler
Ford Motor Company
GM
Hyundai
Nissan
Subaru
Audi/VW
Honda
Toyota
Saab

actually limit what cars you can buy? Not that I know of. Do you have any proof?

ppl say they do... like i know you cant buy a Z06 w/ GMS...

but my dad got GMS price on the brand new 07 tahoe... and coulda gotten GMS on the HHR, or any other vehicle on the lot when i was shopping

 

[astrosfan90]

Does paying for the car outright instead of getting a loan/monthly payments on it help your position any? This is a timely thread for me--I'm actually buying a new car this weekend.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I know most of the above applies to more expensive (relatively) cars. How much would one expect to be abble to haggle down a vehicle with a 6k sticker price? I don't think there even is an invoice price in this case, right?

The method that listed above was for a car that was 3 years old, had an original list price of about $29,000, and the dealer had it listed for $15,900. I took that car for $13,500, financed the entire amount and didn't trade anything in on it.

 

[radioouman]

Originally posted by: astrosfan90
Does paying for the car outright instead of getting a loan/monthly payments on it help your position any? This is a timely thread for me--I'm actually buying a new car this weekend.

Sure. Financing earns money for the dealership. But cash is very desirable.
So just low ball them with cash, and they will likely take it.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Originally posted by: radioouman

Originally posted by: SarcasticDwarf
I know most of the above applies to more expensive (relatively) cars. How much would one expect to be abble to haggle down a vehicle with a 6k sticker price? I don't think there even is an invoice price in this case, right?

The method that listed above was for a car that was 3 years old, had an original list price of about $29,000, and the dealer had it listed for $15,900. I took that car for $13,500, financed the entire amount and didn't trade anything in on it.

That's about 15% off. In the case of a 6k sticker that would put it at 5100 by my reckoning.

 

[astrosfan90]

Alright, so if an Edmunds search gives me an invoice of roughly $26,000 for a car I'm looking at, and the sticker is $28,9xx, I should offer invoice on the spot ($26k)? The dealership knows I'm looking at cars elsewhere as well, and knows specifically where, so I've already got them sweating.

 

[spidey07]

Originally posted by: astrosfan90
Alright, so if an Edmunds search gives me an invoice of roughly $26,000 for a car I'm looking at, and the sticker is $28,9xx, I should offer invoice on the spot ($26k)? The dealership knows I'm looking at cars elsewhere as well, and knows specifically where, so I've already got them sweating.

there could be any number of other incentives to get you below invoice. invoice is the MAX you should pay for a car.

 

[daweeze02]

Originally posted by: preslove
Are there any online tutorials for this?

Fatwallet Car Negotiation Reloaded

 

[TygGer]

So is it best to do the initial stages of negotiations online/over the phone rather than in person?

 

[MX2]

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: DrPizza
It also helps to be good at math.
btw, you don't always get the best deal when you have a trade-in. You should also haggle both prices separately... trade value, and value of car being purchased.

Oops. Forgot about that. Good tip.
The dealer marks up the price in his head when you tell him you got a trade in. Dont say jack until the very last second before you sign, after he's given his final price. Watch him wail and gnash his teeth.

I just noticed alot of dealers (around here anyway) are adopting a policy that states you must mention you have a trade in prior to negotiations🙁

 

[WolverineGator]

Quoted from MRBLACKPCS with all typos:

---------------------------------Formula-------------------------------------------
MSRP= Sticker(includes Dest. Charge)
Invoice= Can be found on Edmunds.com(include options)
Rebates= Can be found on Edmunds.com
Holdback= Can be found on Edmunds.com
Est Tru invoice= Invoice - Rebates - Holdback
tax= ?% x True Invoice
Tags= whatever your states charges
Low ball offer= True Invoice + tax/tags - $2,000
Target Price= MSRP - rebate or Sale price - Low ball offer / 2 + low ball offer(this is basically the formula I use)
---------------------------------Formula-------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------per request---------------------------------
Confidence is your biggest asset! If you dont believe you are going to pay invoice they will smell your fear like a pack of wild dogs. The car business is hurting right now. Dealers are happy with their "holdback". Its the salesman that are starving. STOP NEGOTIATING WITH THE SALESMAN! Its a fact that the average car salesman only sales 8-10 cars per month. Its also a fact that a "flat", the money a salesman is going to make on a new car sales with no profit(invoice) is $50-$100. So do the math thats only $800-$1000 in commission per month. Thats why dealer are always hiring salesman. Its also why salesman are constantly getting fired.
GET THE SALESMAN ON YOUR SIDE! Tell him up front he's not gonna make any money on you, this will be an invoice deal. Tell him you'll slip him a $100 after the deal if you get your price. So when he goes up to the "salesdesk", he's fighting for you. When the salesman comes back to you with numbers on the paper, they call it an "a" sheet. Cross it out with a big "X", flip it over right your number on the back, next to it write "T/T out the door", then underline it. The first number you write should be at least $2000k below invoice. His manager will either send someone over or come his self. This is a good sign it shows that you werent talking to a "closer". He might even write a note, asking where r you getting your numbers. If this happends, write "I was thinking the same thing about you numbers".
Typically his second number will be $2000 above invoice. If it is, you write," Split the difference, with T/T, out the door" They usually will jump at it.

What I am telling you is based on 5 years in the business and personal purchases.

Tips:
DONT BE SCARED TO WALK AWAY.
CONFIDENCE IS KEY.
DONT DRIVE THE VEHICLE FROM THE DEALER YOU ARE BUYING FROM.
DONT DISCUSS CREDIT, FINANCE, INTEREST RATE, ETC BEFORE YOU GET INVOICE PRICING.
(THESE ARE BUYING SIGNALS, THEY WILL SMELL IT LIKE BLOOD TO A SHARK)

DONT LISTEN TO YOUR FRIENDS. EVERYBODY CLAIMS THE GOT A GOOD PRICE. MOST DONT KNOW WHAT INVOICE IS.
DONT ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS DURING NEGOTIATING FOR INVOICE.
(YOU MAY GIVE AWAY A BUYING SIGNAL WITHOUT KNOWING)

SHOPPING DURING THE LATTER PART OF THE MONTH CAN WORK TO YOUR ADAVNTAGE.
(DEALERS HAVE A PROJECTED SALES IN UNITS THEY NEED TO MEET, SO DO BANKS. THEY TYPICALLY WILL WORK BETTER DEALS AT THIS TIME TO MAKE THEIR MONTH)

IF YOU SUBMIT YOUR EMAIL ADDRESS TO A DEALERS WEBSITE LET THEM KNOW "NOT TO CALL YOU, NOT TO NEGOTIATE, YOU WILL ONLY ACCEPT INVOICE W/TAX&TAGS, IF THEY DO CALL YOU, YOU WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEIR DEALERSHIP, IF THE EMAIL YOU ANYTHING OTHER THAN INVOICE, YOU WILL NOT DEAL WITH THEIR DEALERSHIP" THIS IS THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO NEGOTIATE, AS OPPOSE TO IN PERSON.

THEY KNOW IF YOU NEGOTIATING THIS WAY YOU ARE A SERIOUS BUYER.

THEY WANT YOU IN THE DEALERSHIP SO THEY PLAT THE "GAME" WITH YOU. ITS SET UP TO WORK AGAINST YOU. LIKE A CASINO THE HOUSE ALWAYS WINS.

MOST DEALERS HAVE THE "NEGOTIATING" TABLES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DEALERSHIP OR OPEN OFFICES.
(THIS CREATES A "BUYING FRENZY")

IT HELPS TO HAVE YOUR FINANCING ALREADY DONE BEFORE YOU SHOP FOR THE CAR.

Here is his blog: http://my.opera.com/negotiate/

 

[Sentinel]

I'm not sure if this is true or not, but with GM employee pricing they are losing money on every car they sell.

 

[Qwest]

i usually ask to see their invoice and go from there.

 

[Bassyhead]

Take a look at Confessions of a Car Salesman on Edmunds. I saw this posted here before. It's a long read but very informative.

 

[DrPizza]

Originally posted by: mugs

Originally posted by: shortylickens

Originally posted by: DrPizza
It also helps to be good at math.
btw, you don't always get the best deal when you have a trade-in. You should also haggle both prices separately... trade value, and value of car being purchased.

Oops. Forgot about that. Good tip.
The dealer marks up the price in his head when you tell him you got a trade in. Dont say jack until the very last second before you sign, after he's given his final price. Watch him wail and gnash his teeth.

Yeah, because he's not going to ask you during the negotiations if you have a trade-in. 😕 Here's a better idea, don't have a trade-in. Sell it privately.

(I hate to bump an old thread but...)

If you sell it privately, don't forget about the extra amount of tax you would be paying...
ie. if you purchase a new car for 20k, and have a trade in worth 10k, you only pay tax on 10k.

If you purchase the new car for 20k, sell the car privately for 10.5k, you're paying tax on the 20k, which can be (as it is in NY in this particular example) more than the extra money you make selling it outright. (which can be a hassle sometimes.)

 

[VirginiaDonkey]

Dr. Pizza,
That isnt true in all states. Of course somestates like mine want to get more than their fair share, so they tax the purchase price of the car regardless of trade in or down payment. Thanks Virginia

 

[TraumaRN]

Ehhh like everyone said be prepared to walk away and make them fight for you.....

I'm not a very good haggler for prices so when I found the car I wanted two weeks ago I called in my reinforcements in the form of my mother who's a CEO and been in the credit union/banking industry for 25+ years....suddenly a car that was 9000 bucks before tax/title/plates was sold to me for 7K after tax/title/plates and a tank of gas(it worked out to be about 6300 bucks for tax/title/plates, basically about 3000 bucks UNDER retail blue book). I swear that dealer about cried for selling the car at that price but she knew what to say to get him to drop the price....

 

[flot]

Another tip, used cars on a car lot are often OUTRAGEOUSLY priced on the window sticker vs what they will actually take. Last couple used cars I've bought, I've literally paid thousands less than what the sign on the windshield said. Ballpark on one - window sticker (big neon green numbers) said $19,000 - internet price listed for anyone to see on autotrader.com was $16,000 "this is our absolute lowest price no matter what" I think I walked away with it for about $14,700. (it's been a while..the one before that I think sticker said $12,000 got it for closer to $7000)

Oh and let me tell you about the used car dealer who tried to sell me a 2004 honda pilot with 25,000 miles for exactly $1000 less than the guy in the building next to him quoted me for a brand new 2005....

Although my recent story, I've been trying to lease a new SUV and Lincoln happens to have a really cheap promotion for Navigator leases. (although I didn't really like it) The lincoln dealer was great, very professional and on the ball. All the Ford dealers that I've been trying to get to even come remotely close to the lincoln price have been completely inept. The last straw was today, I walked into a Ford dealer asking about the price I saw in an ad and the guy actually said "oh that's just the # to get people in here, it's really much higher." Needless to say, I won't be buying from him. (after an hour of "crunching the numbers" he in fact could not figure out any way to get even close to the ad. Unfortunately the vehicle they were advertising was missing one $350 option that I cannot live without (tow package) otherwise I think I'd actually consider trying to sue them for it just out of spite. 🙂

 

[IBuyUFO]

I always bring a 9 mm with me.

 

[The Batt?sai]

Originally posted by: mugs
http://www.fool.com/car/car.htm
http://www.carsdirect.com

i've been to fool.com/car/car.htm thanks again for posting it though 🙂

 

[Gooberlx2]

Look at it this way, unless you're buying luxury (which sometimes don't negotiate...and BMW dealership around here won't negotiate at all) most dealerships are paying the salespeople mostly based on the number of cars they sell in a pay period, not commission. There's still some front-end commission for the sales people, but they'd rather sacrifice that and get their sale. They also know that the finance people are sneaky and often steal/take credit for all their ambiguous front-end commissions anyway, like lo-jack.

Go read the article on edmunds.com about the guy who went undercover in the car sales business. "Confessions of a Car Saleman" or something like that.

 

[Evadman]

I sent out faxes to ever dealer that could get my truck and had rigth on the fax that Iw ould buy it from whoever was cheaper, or if the same price, the one who threw in the most free stuff. Of the ~100 faxes I sent out I got ~15 replies. I ended up getting my truck for WELL under what it booked for, and a ton of free stuff too 🙂