How do I determine if I am "left wing" or "right wing" if I am independent.

[shadow9d9]

I am a registered independent and vote for whatever candidate is the better of the group.

Here are my political views-

I want a small government that doesn't meddle with peoples' lives and is fiscally responsible. I want a government that pays for its expenditures and lowers the deficit.

I believe that if a woman wants an abortion within the first few weeks of pregnancy, the "baby" is an empty vessel that is brainless and therefore is fine. I also believe that if the woman becomes at risk that there it is reasonable to abort.

I believe in theory that there should be a death penalty, and eye for an eye even. However, with the bureaucracy and imperfect system we have, it is unreasonable to do so. Especially with the costs involved.

I believe that religion should be kept out of politics and that it should be kept off of public government buildings.

I do not care if gay couples have civil unions or marriages. I am not gay so it doesn't affect me.

I believe that everyone should be taxed equally and that there should not be higher income tax brackets.

I believe that if any congressman, president, or any of his administration is caught lieing, they should be fired and tried for treason. I think any corruption charges should lead to treason charges.

I believe that social security should be immediately dismantled. The people that miss out(me included) should simply consider everything paid into it as a tax, which is essentially all it is now.

Welfare should be eliminated and anyone unable to take care of their children should have their children removed from their care.

I think healthcare in this country needs to be revamped to fix the following problems- 1. Children whose parents cannot afford health insurance for them should be covered because it is not the child's fault that their parents are deadbeats. 2. People with many problems, called "pre-existing conditions" should not be denied coverage or be asked for exorbitant rates.

I think the AMT needs to be dealt with.

I think that the minimum wage should rise. It rose from mere pennies in the 70s to the 90s and then stopped... Why? Plenty of cashiers are older people.

I don't really care about guns. I think more care should be taken when giving out a gun, but I don't see how much can be done. It is fine the way it is. I will say though that the 2nd amendment was created before times of police/alarm systems/cell phones/ etc. I think it is more necessary in some places(rural) than others(cities).

Add some more issues that I could give my views of and then determine if I am "liberal" or "conservative."

 

[Gigantopithecus]

You're neither, you've summed up nicely the stances of most libertarians.

 

[TheRyuu]

I think it's a split right down the middle. You move from left to right to left and so on for each point

 

[nomadh]

Similar to me. Show me that ticket and I'd probably vote for it. I suggest we should keep some social net but let it be known that you are a ward of the state. Similar to government propery. Told where to work and sleep, what to study and how to get ot of the system. While in the system your rights would be very restrictied. Same with health care. If you are on gov health care then your diet will be restricted. Tooth brushing will be required and checked just like any other asset of the state. People who are able would typically get off the system very fast. Those who can't would be well cared for. Rights only come with responsibility. Anyone incapable of guiding their own life certainly cannot guide a country. The right to vote would be well respected and cherished.

 

[shadow9d9]

Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Here is why:

I believe that if a woman wants an abortion within the first few weeks of pregnancy, the "baby" is an empty vessel that is brainless and therefore is fine.

I also believe that if the woman becomes at risk that there it is reasonable to abort.

 

[grrl]

Actualy, shadow9d9, why do you care? Do you really need to label youself the way so many people find necessary? However, if you are looking for a party to join or otherwise support Gigantopithecus is right to call you a Libertarian.

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Why are you so concerned about what they call you?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Because it's easier to attack a characterization than an actual coherent set of views. You hold some positions that might be considered liberal, some that might be conservative, and some that might be libertarian. But to argue against all that, someone would actually have to argue against your specific arguments...it's a lot easier to just call you a liberal for holding a "liberal" view on something and let the generic arguments do the work for them. This really is an art form in politics. Every attack on an individuals views will almost always categorize them into some basic group and then attack them based on assumed views from that group. You're in favor of allowing gay marriage? Be prepared to be attacked on your "liberal" tax views, even though you're far enough to the right on that issue that it's hard to see you from the middle

Most people are really like this, but it works the other way too. Not only does one have to categorize OTHER people, but they need to categorize themselves as well...for the same reason, it saves their brain from being any more overworked than it already is.

 

[dyn2nvu]

Be a classical liberal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

 

[EXman]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Because it's easier to attack a characterization than an actual coherent set of views. You hold some positions that might be considered liberal, some that might be conservative, and some that might be libertarian. But to argue against all that, someone would actually have to argue against your specific arguments...it's a lot easier to just call you a liberal for holding a "liberal" view on something and let the generic arguments do the work for them. This really is an art form in politics. Every attack on an individuals views will almost always categorize them into some basic group and then attack them based on assumed views from that group. You're in favor of allowing gay marriage? Be prepared to be attacked on your "liberal" tax views, even though you're far enough to the right on that issue that it's hard to see you from the middle

Most people are really like this, but it works the other way too. Not only does one have to categorize OTHER people, but they need to categorize themselves as well...for the same reason, it saves their brain from being any more overworked than it already is.

did you call him an "asshole Republican" too rainy?

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Perhaps because your posts don't match what you list as your philosophy?

Maybe it?s the same reason people call me a bible thumper despite the fact that I don?t own a bible and have never read it.

As for your views you seem to have more conservative views than liberal views.

The only place it looks like you stray from conservatism is your views on church and gays.
All your views on taxes, spending, welfare, gun and social security are much closer to the view of most conservatives.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: EXman

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Because it's easier to attack a characterization than an actual coherent set of views. You hold some positions that might be considered liberal, some that might be conservative, and some that might be libertarian. But to argue against all that, someone would actually have to argue against your specific arguments...it's a lot easier to just call you a liberal for holding a "liberal" view on something and let the generic arguments do the work for them. This really is an art form in politics. Every attack on an individuals views will almost always categorize them into some basic group and then attack them based on assumed views from that group. You're in favor of allowing gay marriage? Be prepared to be attacked on your "liberal" tax views, even though you're far enough to the right on that issue that it's hard to see you from the middle

Most people are really like this, but it works the other way too. Not only does one have to categorize OTHER people, but they need to categorize themselves as well...for the same reason, it saves their brain from being any more overworked than it already is.

did you call him an "asshole Republican" too rainy?

Uh, I don't know...but it's quite possible. I do occasionally call people Republicans, and Republicans DO tend to be assholes with alarming frequency. But in any case, I don't see where I exempted myself from what I said about people who discuss politics.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Perhaps because your posts don't match what you list as your philosophy?

Maybe it?s the same reason people call me a bible thumper despite the fact that I don?t own a bible and have never read it.

As for your views you seem to have more conservative views than liberal views.

The only place it looks like you stray from conservatism is your views on church and gays.
All your views on taxes, spending, welfare, gun and social security are much closer to the view of most conservatives.

I don't know about that, his views on guns seem pretty middle of the road to me. And providing free health care for ANYONE at all isn't exactly a bulwark Republican issue. Ditto with a raise in the minimum wage, isn't the conservative view that we need to scrap it? And aggressive prosecution of dishonest public servants is certainly not something you'll see discussed by conservative pundits. This is the problem with categorizing people. Even on issues that lean one way or another, it's all shades of gray. The conservative view is that anybody who is at all in favor of gun ownership is "conservative" on the issue, while the liberal view is that the conservative view on guns starts from the position that AR-15 ownership should be mandatory for all felons and moves to the right from there. Our own biases color how we see other views, the result being that we see our views as far more moderate than they are, and views we don't agree with as more extreme.

If you're wondering why people would assume you're a bible thumper despite you never really talking about the bible, it might be because you're such an extreme conservative that I can't really blame people for taking that idea all the way. You are really far to the right on virtually every issue that's discussed here, and while I don't condone stereotyping, if religion is the one thing you're NOT a flaming conservative about, I can't really blame people for missing it. This really isn't an insult, but I think you are someone who can certainly be classified strongly one way or another, and making assumptions from that point isn't quite the same thing as going off of a single issue.

 

[Siddhartha]

OP
Why do you have to be left or right wing? Why can't you decide where you stand on the basis of each issue?

The whole leftie vs rightie political and cultural dichotomy is a cliché that is more important here in ATP&N and with conservative talk radio than in the real world.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Ya know its ironic because I have exactly the same views as you from what I can tell (in fact on some I'm slightly more to the left) and I'm labeled a neo-con around here.

 

[Deudalus]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

I don't know about that, his views on guns seem pretty middle of the road to me. And providing free health care for ANYONE at all isn't exactly a bulwark Republican issue.

He didn't say that if you read his post carefully.

What he says is if people have alot of health problems they shouldn't be able to be denied coverage. That doesn't mean they dont have to pay for it.

Ditto with a raise in the minimum wage, isn't the conservative view that we need to scrap it?

Beats me. I know alot are against raising it up because in the end all it really does is make the dollar menu a dollar and a quarter menu.

But I digress.

And aggressive prosecution of dishonest public servants is certainly not something you'll see discussed by conservative pundits.

Won't see alot of that from liberals either. Are you truly so shallow as to think one side is all honest abe's while the other side is totally crooked and evil?

Please tell me your blinders arent that thick.

The conservative view is that anybody who is at all in favor of gun ownership is "conservative" on the issue, while the liberal view is that the conservative view on guns starts from the position that AR-15 ownership should be mandatory for all felons and moves to the right from there. Our own biases color how we see other views, the result being that we see our views as far more moderate than they are, and views we don't agree with as more extreme.

That isn't really true at all though. I'm liberal on all the issues that don't matter as much such as gay marriage, abortion, and gun control (though really I'm moderate on that) and conservative on the few issues that do matter such as economics and foreign policy.

I know alot of gun toting Democrats and alot of non-gun owning Republicans. You really cant put everyone into a particular box that they easily fit in.

If you're wondering why people would assume you're a bible thumper despite you never really talking about the bible, it might be because you're such an extreme conservative that I can't really blame people for taking that idea all the way. You are really far to the right on virtually every issue that's discussed here, and while I don't condone stereotyping, if religion is the one thing you're NOT a flaming conservative about, I can't really blame people for missing it. This really isn't an insult, but I think you are someone who can certainly be classified strongly one way or another, and making assumptions from that point isn't quite the same thing as going off of a single issue.

If you look at his views down the list you will see he actually has alot in common with a JFK or a Joe Lieberman which sadly the Democratic party abandoned long ago with me right along with them. I mean lets be honest, 10 to 15 years ago Guiliani would be running as a moderate Democrat. Hell even the Clintons are becoming ostracized by the left now adays.

Conservative Republicans are a funny lot to say the very least. They are very quirky and very judgemental and I would be the last person to deny any of that.

However, is it not somewhat ironic that people like myself and the OP have no place in the Democratic party and yet Guiliani, Schwarzenegger, etc have a place in the Republican party? Sure the RNC might not agree with everything they say, but they aren't putting up people in election races to run against them like they did Lieberman either.

I think eventually you libs have to open your eyes to the fact that tolerance is not exactly a virtue that your party can tout right now.

 

[SuperFungus]

I think you approach political parties the wrong way, at least not the way i would. I look at political parties as a useful consolidation of power, no one or almost no one, is ever going to always agree with any party line. For instance i consider myself republican in large part because i am pro life and that issue is what is of greatest importance to me right now. In my particular case that doesn't mean that for instance i want to see gay unions made illegal, or that i support the current republican administration's policy in Iraq. However, I do find myself agreeing overall with the Republican parties philosophy, small government, only moderate regulation of business, and limited social programs. So in supporting the Republican party I hope that most of what I'd like to see the government doing gets done, and i can live with those things which the Republican party pushes but may conflict with my own personal ideology, at least as things are currently. Anyways thats my thought process, take it or leave it. Sorry if i don't really answer your question but i don't feel fit to presume to tell you which party to support, you're on your own for that i guess.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Perhaps because your posts don't match what you list as your philosophy?

Maybe it?s the same reason people call me a bible thumper despite the fact that I don?t own a bible and have never read it.

As for your views you seem to have more conservative views than liberal views.

The only place it looks like you stray from conservatism is your views on church and gays.
All your views on taxes, spending, welfare, gun and social security are much closer to the view of most conservatives.

My views don't stray... show us one of my posts that doesn't match what I listed.

 

[shadow9d9]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha
OP
Why do you have to be left or right wing? Why can't you decide where you stand on the basis of each issue?

The whole leftie vs rightie political and cultural dichotomy is a cliché that is more important here in ATP&N and with conservative talk radio than in the real world.

I already did decide where I stand on the basis of each issue.. hence this post... my point is that I keep being labeled a "left wing liberal" when someone disagrees with me. This post is to show that those labels mean absolutely nothing and are done to make everyone who disagrees an enemy.

 

[shadow9d9]

The ironic thing is that AImster, the one that kept calling me a left wing liberal has stayed away from this thread. I wonder why!

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: shadow9d9

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Then tell me why people like Aimster, nonprofjon, blackangst, etc always call me a "left wing liberal"?

Perhaps because your posts don't match what you list as your philosophy?

Maybe it?s the same reason people call me a bible thumper despite the fact that I don?t own a bible and have never read it.

As for your views you seem to have more conservative views than liberal views.

The only place it looks like you stray from conservatism is your views on church and gays.
All your views on taxes, spending, welfare, gun and social security are much closer to the view of most conservatives.

My views don't stray... show us one of my posts that doesn't match what I listed.

But you are all over the place so that makes you an extreme leftist.

Better to be that way than like the rest where they extreme right radicals.

 

[nageov3t]

as long as you're posting on the P&N forums, you're a radial left winger whenever someone who leans right wants to attack you, and you're a radical right winger whenever someone who leans left wants to attack you.

not that anyone here will admit to leaning left or right... everyone claims to be centrist

 

[Mxylplyx]

Do yourself a favor, and dont make that determination. Once people choose a team, they become sheep.

 

[piasabird]

Social Security is Taxation without representation. Since it all goes into the general revenue, it is not being used for what the tax was originally designed. Social Security payments come out of the general revenue, and Social Security tax goes into the general revenue, so lets get rid of social security tax and just increase the income tax. Why do we need a separate tax?