How do I check for "cpu throttling" in Win 2k server?

[davework]

I just got the server and lan up and running. The new software that we upgraded for seems to run a tad slower than I expected. How can I check in windows 2000 server that the application is getting all the cpu time that it needs (and other resources for that matter).

We only have one application (the business software) that needs any cpu time at all (other than win 2k server of course). We have a p3 600 mhz and 512mg of ram, is this to light for win 2k server?

One of the services is broken but it looks like its just for the multimedia stuff (which I shouldnt have installed). We also do not have active directory running either.

We we "rebuild" our data it takes a very long time but neither the RAM or the CPU are maximized when it is running.


Any help you can give will keep me employed, uh I mean happy. LOL

 

[Thor86]

It would help if you mentioned which "software" you are running on your Win2k Server.

 

[igiveup]

Three things are likely going to affect your performance. Ram usage, CPU usage and the one you left out...HARD DISK USAGE. What hard disks are you using? If you are doing a rebuild then that would be in my mind more disk active than anything else. Your disks could be too slow to tax your CPU and RAM, in which case you have a disk bottleneck.

The CPU and RAM being "fast enough" and "big enough" depend on the applications used. If you are running a database or mail server then I would think about bumping the RAM up. CPU also possibly. More information would be helpful.

PIII 600 w/512 is enough for Windows 2000 Server to be sure, but beyond the OS, who knows.

 

[davework]

Thanks for the quick replies!

We are running Best Software, Business Works Gold server/client edition and Pervasive Database.

We have an IBM 7200 rpm ADA100 drive (maybe running ADA66) IDE (one of the new IBM drives). We have ASUS P3V4X motherboards. Soundblaster Live Value sound cards and Geforce video cards (all of which were identified and installed by win 2k server).

Although I cant eliminate the network (it runs slow when we run it on the server itself), I dont think this is a networking issue.

It seems to be an artificial limitation of some kind. Sort of like the 4 workstations have been given 1/4 of the resources and no more. Every part of the program runs slow, searches for client accounts, opening a new module, etc. It does not seem to be a problem with software that runs locally on the individual workstations.

Im wondering if there isnt some part of the configuration of the server that I missed. Two things I havent checked completely is whether win 2k is seeing the hard drive correctly (IDE, VLBA, whatever) or whether the memory and page file are optimal for the way this program works.

In our daily work, small amounts of data move back and forth with no real number crunching. Only once in a while do we "rebuild" which might be data and number intesive.

Any help is apprecitated.

 

[igiveup]

Well dave, lucky I checked back on this thread. For the last 2 years I have worked for a Best Authorized Reseller providing technical support for MAS90 and MAS200, the big brothers to BusinessWorks. We didn't support BusinessWorks because a lack of features for our clients. Sort of wish I did now, but oh well. I went to work for one of our clients who payed better, and the pace is slower too.

1) Do you have the latest service pack for Windows 2000 Server? There were several ATA issues with DMA on the Stock and SP1 versions of Windows 2000. Windows 2000 also has several performance monitoring features that you might try looking at to diagnose your disk usage, page file utilization, cpu usage, memory usage, etc. If your board is an intel board look at bios updates and driver updates for you network card and ESPECIALLY chipset.

Start>Run>MMC. Click on the File menu>Add/Remove Snap In. Add button on the bottom... Choose ActiveX control and then step through the wizard until you can choose System Monitor Control near the bottom of the list box that comes up. Once you add that click on the Close button in the Add Standalone Snap-in panel. Choose OK for the Add/Remove Snap-in box. Now you should be back to the MMC Console with System Monitor Control added in. Click it in the left pane and you should see a monitoring section to the right. Click the plus symbol in the toolbar menu above. From the Perfomance Object section we are going to pick Processor and then %processor time & Total on the right. From the Network Interface we are going to pick Bytes Total/sec and choose your network card. From Physical Disk choose %disk time and then total. Do your rebuild and see what is happening behind the scenes.

2) Patches applied to BusinessWorks?

3) Anti-Virus running on the server? I know you probably need it if you do have it there, try disabling it and rebooting then do a rebuild. Take it out of the equation. If thats it then either get a different version of AV Software or make sure you aren't scanning the files that BusinessWorks Gold uses for itself. In MAS 90 or MAS 200 it was .soa files.

4) Make sure you turn your power management off because this can disconnect your network clients if there isn't any action for a bit. Check this on the client side also. Also, in device manager under your network card, make sure the "Allow computer to turn off this device to save power" option in the Power Management tab (if its there) is unchecked. This can disconnect clients. Check this on the clients as well. Make sure you turn off all power management suspend options for the clients as well as the server. It can cause havok.

5) Are your clients disconnected from the server when you do your rebuild? That should be an obvious no, but you never know. I used to go as far as unplugging the network card for a bit.


For MAS 200 (which is the version I think your client server version is closest to) most of the processing work was performed on the server and only screen updates were sent back to the client. The Network interface (ie.. 100MBit) was important, and it was noticible going from regular to fast ethernet. Get yourself a namebrand Network card and the latest drivers. Intel or 3com, preferably Intel because with their drivers for Windows you can set up network adapter teams for increased performance or reliablility, if you get 2 NIC's. If you aren't on Fast Ethernet (100MBit) try to get there. It matters.

As far as those hard drives go, double check to make sure that they are set for DMA. I didn't see if you had your disk or disks in a RAID array? More on your disks if you can post. IBM drives make me shudder. I have lost two 4 IBM drives in the last 3 months (2 SCSI disks and 2 newer ATA drives). Click click click...

For comparison on the load, at my old office they had a PII350 with 256MB of ram serving 15 users simultaneously. It was pretty quick.



One last question: Where is your Best Authorized Rep?

 

[davework]

IBM hard drive crash AAAAIIIIIIIIIIIGHHGHGHGHG!

First, thank you very much for you reply!!!!!!! I will try all of that.

I spoke very briefly with Best Software yesterday about performance. After that conversation I have the sneaking suspicion that the performance problem is related to latency (of the Pervasive SQL database server) than it is to cpu load or disk write time. I cant back that up with fact but the tech on the phone would hedge when asked if a simple CPU upgrade or faster network would help.

Luckily when we upgraded our machines last time it was pretty much left to me. All of our componenents are name brand and have large aftermarket followings (= big pressure for current/stable drivers). We have 3com nics that run 100mb per second. All of the ram is of the same type and brand (well ok, in the server anyway).

Unfortunatly Im top dog in the IT world here and I KNOW NOTHING LOL

The server does not have antivirus software. We JUST upgraded to BW gold 3.whatever from BW v12. So I dont think there is a patch yet.

I always disable power management, though Im not sure that it is still necessary anymore (a hold over from the days when powering down the hard drive to standby was a blue screen of death waiting to happen).



I think that it is very likely that our set up in general (speed of cpu, drive, network) is a little on the lite side for this software. But because of the way it does things (the Pervasive SQL thing) Im not sure that raw horsepower will make a big improvement.

The only speed upgrade we can make without reinstalling everything is an upgrade to 1.3ghz P3 (would require a sloket), more ram, and If I absolutely must, scsi drives doing RAID.

Im gonna try the easy stuff first. ESPECIALLY the update to win 2k server (I havent run it yet because that computer doesnt have a phone line run to it).

Again, thanks for the wonderful reply!!!!!

David

 

[NogginBoink]

Has nobody heard of perfmon?

How truly sad! That's the tool you need to use to find out where the bottleneck is.

 

[igiveup]

Trust a fellow anandtech'er to come up with a easier way to do the same damn thing. Perfmon (start>run>perfmon) is the exact thing I was walking you through building. Thanks Noggin

SQL for Businessworks? Isn't that a BIT of overkill for 4 clients? Not to mention more expensive, but you tell me.

The BOSS (Best Online Support Services) rep would naturally hedge and hesitate to give you a definitive answer about CPU upgrade or Network upgrade questions. The truth is that there are just too many things that could affect your performance in a negative way. The client I am at now went from a Pentium 400 and MAS200 to a Dual PIII-T 1.266 setup with 2GB of ram and RAID 5 (Cheetah X15's & Adaptec 2100s). The peformance improvement was good, about twice as fast, but I don't know if it was worth the cost. Is your entire server and client network running fast ethernet, including your switch? Like I said thats the biggest performance booster that I know of for the dollar.


Do you have a Support Plan that allows for Self Support? I think they are Gold or Silver levels. If so you might be able to do some searching in the Research Agent section of BOSS.

 

[davework]

Pervasive SQL was part of the Client/Server package from Best, no way to opt out.

Yes we have BW Gold service too.

I will run perfmon (isnt he one of the Marvel Comics Fantastic Four??) and see if that helps.

As far as I know, our entire network is fast ethernet and capable of running 100mps from every computer, to every computer. We have 5 machines, one hub, no routers, no switches. All of the machines hook independently into the hub, no daisy chain (you dont want to what it looked like before I got to it!).

There could very easily be room to optimize the server and the protocols for the network. My experience with servers and networking is just about zero (peer to peer just doesnt count).

I got a couple of books on the way and I guess Im just gonna have to do lots of reading and a little experimenting.

Just for gee whiz, all the other programs, that dont use the server directly, are running exactly as they were on the peer to peer (win 98se) set up. Its possible that there is no "problem" at all and that we just have marginal machines and no patience LOL

David

 

[igiveup]

Its possible that there is no "problem" at all and that we just have marginal machines and no patience LOL

Not likely. SQL is supposed to do the number crunching on the server and send back results to the client. With only 4 clients and the server on one hub its not really likely that you would run into any network bandwidth issues. The clients should be fine all the way down to Pentium 200's on that kind of setup. Really all they are doing is displaying the information that they receive over their network connections. Yeah, faster machines will make it snappier, but for this application it shouldn't be needed.

There could very easily be room to optimize the server and the protocols for the network

Maybe, but Windows 2000 is largely self tuning as far as the network goes. There really isn't much to do. Hard disk? Yeah, defrag that as long as it doesn't interfere with the SQL database.


Fire up perfmon and make sure the right monitors are listed below. Then fire up a client and watch the counters to see what they do. Thats really the only way to tell if its your server.

 

[igiveup]

Any results??

 

[davework]

Because of our 28.8 super slow mo connection I have to do the update piecemeal. I still have a couple of files left to go on the critical updates.

I ran perfmon on both a client and the server and could not see a single instance of the server being overwhelmed. The only time anything was pegged was when it was printing. I checked the priority for the printer and it was set to the lowest priority so I dont think that will bother us. The network bandwidth was not even remotely being touched. Neither was the CPU time (expect during printing).

In my unprofessional opinion, the aparent slowness is caused by software issues, not our machines. But I will be upgrading the CPU in the server anyway just for gee whiz (couldnt hurt).

There is very little data flying around and not much cpu use going on so it must have something to do with runing BW under the shell of Pervasive SQL.

Ill keep diggin though!

I very much appreciate all of the help you guys have given!