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How do gay/bisexual people feel about religion and the bible?

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Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Originally posted by: xospec1alk
why then does god create gay people?

why should anyone,including christ, or god, or whatever, be passing judgement on anyone?

It's called "free will and the ability to choose." Homosexuality is nothing but a choice.

thats a common misbelief
feelings are something that can't really be controlled. You can always control how you react to those feelings but you can't control the feelings themselves. same deal with who you're attracted to

I'm attracted to lots of different women (I like big butts and I cannot lie)... I'm a guy. However, I love my wife and respect my marriage vows and don't do anything about that attraction. Other men act on those impulses and try to nail anything that moves.

There's a difference between feelings and actions. You can't always control feelings. Actions can be controlled and judged as right or wrong.
 
Plenty of denominations will ordain homosexuals.
We are not to judge other people; that is most un-Christian.

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Stark
Originally posted by: ElFenix
Originally posted by: Stark
Some people may have a genetic disposition for violence. That doesn't stop them from being put in prison if they act out on those impulses.
thats possibly the worst analogy i've heard all month.

how so?

they're in prison because they hurt someone and violated a man-made law and have to suffer the man-made consequences. last i checked consensual sex usually doesn't have a victim.

the point is that having a genetic disposition for an action does not excuse one from the consequenses or judgement of any resulting actions by God or man.

According to the film "And the Band Played On," the AIDS epidemic in the US was the direct result of homosexual activity. That seems to be a well established historical fact. Consensual sex can have many "victims" even after the act itself is cleaned up and forgotten.

And there are man-made laws against playing in the brown bear cave, just like God has prohibitions concerning violence and murder.

 
Originally posted by: glen
Plenty of denominations will ordain homosexuals.
We are not to judge other people; that is most un-Christian.

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

I ripped this from somewhere else:

A careful examination of Christ's command, "Do not judge, or you too will be judged" (Matthew 7:1), in light of what He said next, indicates His meaning. He said, "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye" (Matthew 7:5). He simply was saying that we should not seek to correct a person when we are guilty of the same or another offense. We need to deal with our own sin, and then we can help someone else. He never intended that His disciples should set aside all exercise of discernment or judgment.

Later in the same message Jesus said, "Watch out for false prophets ... A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit ... Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them" (Matthew 7:15-20). We may and we must exercise the discernment God has given to us as to another's words and deeds. God alone, of course, knows the motives and intent of a person's heart.

It is also important to consider the spirit in which we seek to correct someone else. Even if we are not guilty of the same offense, we have been guilty enough of other offenses. We need to judge or correct another in a spirit of love, compassion, and humility. The Bible says, "Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ" (Galatians 6:1-2).
 
genetic dispositions and God in the same sentence. That's cute. Science when you want it, and religion to fill in the gaps.
 
Originally posted by: BlipBlop
genetic dispositions and God in the same sentence. That's cute. Science when you want it, and religion to fill in the gaps.

Only a few Christian denominations reject science.
We went through this in an earlier thread, and only 1/3 reject evolution.

 
Who cares if people are gay because of nature or nurture? What makes it wrong? Because the bible says so? Do you think God wrote the bible and dropped it down from the sky?
 
Originally posted by: glen
Plenty of denominations will ordain homosexuals.
We are not to judge other people; that is most un-Christian.

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."


I have to disagree with you on judging Glen.

Do we actually "judge" people and affect where they spend eternity?
NO in no way can we send people to heaven or hell for their actions.
"Not our place" Reserved only for God.

Do we "judge" people's actions?
YES If we know God and his word we can "judge" whether an action by a person is in line with
God's commandments or not. It's called discernment (spelling probably wrong). It's knowing
the difference between right and wrong.


 
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
Who cares if people are gay because of nature or nurture? What makes it wrong? Because the bible says so? Do you think God wrote the bible and dropped it down from the sky?

How did we get it? 🙂

 
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
Who cares if people are gay because of nature or nurture? What makes it wrong? Because the bible says so? Do you think God wrote the bible and dropped it down from the sky?

In my eyes, it is wrong because of my christianity belief system. In your eyes it's not wrong - you don't share the same beliefs i do. I'm only saying that homosexuality is wrong based upon what i believe. I'm not here to change what you believe.
 
Well, it depends if you believe that it's natural or not. I believe that it's a sin, and is not natural. You don't see any groups supporting drunks/alcoholics. You only see groups that try to help get alcoholics onto a straight path.
 
Originally posted by: Arkitech
I know I'm on religious kick today but I've always been curious how gay people feel about religion. A lot of christians are really hard on anything they feel to be different from their "interpertation" of the bible, but it seems cruel to put a person down for only doing whats natural. Its kinda like condemning people who are attracted to redheads.

i can't speak for gays or bisexuals, but i can tell you what my religion teaches.

the condition of homosexuality per se is not sinful, but homosexual acts are sinful & deemed "intrinsically disordered."

my religion is quite compassionate towards homosexuals, but expects them and all other unmarried people to be celibate (& marriage is only between a man and a woman).

this could be a tough requirement for all you weak, unrepentant kitten-killers out there.
 
Originally posted by: glen
Plenty of denominations will ordain homosexuals.
We are not to judge other people; that is most un-Christian.

34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

It also says "If you love me you will keep my commandments"

Like it or not God said that it IS a sin to be with another person of the same sex. That is breaking a commandment.

At an even lower level it is a sin to commit fornincation...homosexuality is fornication. It is absolutely ridiculous to allow homosexuals to be preachers. It would be just as bad to have a pastor who is commiting fornication or adultry with someone of the opposite sex. A pastor is the head of a church, someone to look up to and respect. I could never respect someone in that position who said that they are a man/woman of God all the while being involved in a sinfull relationship.

Yes, everyone does sin and God forgives, but if you do not make an active effort to change than I believe that you are in no position to lead or influence believers.
 
You have to realize that the bible was created by medieval Catholic clergy. What makes you think anything in it is valid as "word of God", much less things that fuel bigotry. Slaveowners in the 1800s quoted the bible to support slavery, bigots quote the bible to support their hate. There is no difference.
 
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
Who cares if people are gay because of nature or nurture? What makes it wrong? Because the bible says so? Do you think God wrote the bible and dropped it down from the sky?

Yes...The Bible is the Inspired word of God. It did not drop down from the sky, but he used the writers to express what he wanted. The basis of Christianity is faith. If you have no faith that there is a God and that the Bible is his word then there is no point. No one will ever be able to scientifically trace back to the origins of life, no one will be able to prove that the Bible is or isn't God's words. You have to believe in God and accept Jesus into your life to be a Christian, being good alone will not cut it. And to do those things you must have faith in God.

Flame on...

 
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
You have to realize that the bible was created by medieval Catholic clergy. What makes you think anything in it is valid as "word of God", much less things that fuel bigotry. Slaveowners in the 1800s quoted the bible to support slavery, bigots quote the bible to support their hate. There is no difference.


I was under the impression that the Bible was copied from Dead Sea Scrolls found in a cave that predated 'midieval catholic clergy' but I am hazy. I was also under the impression that much of the old testament of the Bible dealt with commandments given to the tribe of Judah that were fulfilled / negated by the coming of Christ and the birth of the new testament. Many of these rules may have been to prevent disease or social problems because science was lacking at the time (ie going outside town to defacate, sleeping with a women during her period, sleeping with an animal, sleeping with a dude, not eating certain kinds of food, etc.) but I could be wrong.
 
Originally posted by: BatmanNate
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
You have to realize that the bible was created by medieval Catholic clergy. What makes you think anything in it is valid as "word of God", much less things that fuel bigotry. Slaveowners in the 1800s quoted the bible to support slavery, bigots quote the bible to support their hate. There is no difference.


I was under the impression that the Bible was copied from Dead Sea Scrolls found in a cave that predated 'midieval catholic clergy' but I am hazy. I was also under the impression that much of the old testament of the Bible dealt with commandments given to the tribe of Judah that were fulfilled / negated by the coming of Christ and the birth of the new testament. Many of these rules may have been to prevent disease or social problems because science was lacking at the time (ie going outside town to defacate, sleeping with a women during her period, sleeping with an animal, sleeping with a dude, not eating certain kinds of food, etc.) but I could be wrong.

You are wrong. Someone had to translate these dead sea scrolls and decide what constituted "The Word of God" and what didn't. What does mansechs have to do with hygene?
 
Originally posted by: Stark
Originally posted by: dabuddha
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Originally posted by: xospec1alk
why then does god create gay people?

why should anyone,including christ, or god, or whatever, be passing judgement on anyone?

It's called "free will and the ability to choose." Homosexuality is nothing but a choice.

thats a common misbelief
feelings are something that can't really be controlled. You can always control how you react to those feelings but you can't control the feelings themselves. same deal with who you're attracted to

I'm attracted to lots of different women (I like big butts and I cannot lie)... I'm a guy. However, I love my wife and respect my marriage vows and don't do anything about that attraction. Other men act on those impulses and try to nail anything that moves.

There's a difference between feelings and actions. You can't always control feelings. Actions can be controlled and judged as right or wrong.

exactly! you explained it better than me but its what i meant. the question is, if you're attracted to men (or women if you're one), yet you never act on it, does it make you a homosexual?
 
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
Originally posted by: BatmanNate
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
You have to realize that the bible was created by medieval Catholic clergy. What makes you think anything in it is valid as "word of God", much less things that fuel bigotry. Slaveowners in the 1800s quoted the bible to support slavery, bigots quote the bible to support their hate. There is no difference.


I was under the impression that the Bible was copied from Dead Sea Scrolls found in a cave that predated 'midieval catholic clergy' but I am hazy. I was also under the impression that much of the old testament of the Bible dealt with commandments given to the tribe of Judah that were fulfilled / negated by the coming of Christ and the birth of the new testament. Many of these rules may have been to prevent disease or social problems because science was lacking at the time (ie going outside town to defacate, sleeping with a women during her period, sleeping with an animal, sleeping with a dude, not eating certain kinds of food, etc.) but I could be wrong.

You are wrong. Someone had to translate these dead sea scrolls and decide what constituted "The Word of God" and what didn't. What does mansechs have to do with hygene?



No, you are wrong. The Bible was written before, you are merely talking about translation. And I'm not debating that translation is infallible, but there are enough Hebrew scholars still in existence to check that.

To answer your other question, disease has everything to do with it since that area of the body harbors disease causing bacteria. (ie why don't you drink out of a river that people pour raw sewage into?) And the act of sodomy also has a greater risk of involuntary blood transfusion so to speak. I thought it was pretty obvious myself.
 
I think the problem with the whole Christian(general religious thought) and the Homosexual issue(and many other issues of Morality) is in how these issues are used. This particular issue seems to be both a Lightning Rod and a Beacon, of sorts.

A Lightning Rod, in the sense that Homosexuality is an issue of growing importance, it's now in the open whereas before Homosexuals were forced to lurk in the shadows out of sight of society, back then no Religious person spoke out about the issue. Now the issue is at the forefront, it is an obvious topic to include in the corruption/decay of Society, as the Religious and Religious texts perceive it.

A Beacon(negative), in the sense that it makes a good finger pointer. Too many Religious persons use issues like this as a distraction from their own faults/sins. As long as something so vile as Homosexuality(or some other fault/sin) exists, those who like Beacons will point and say, "At least I'm not that!" or, "Don't look at me! Look at him/her!!". This was the Sin/Fault of the Phariscees: As Jesus stated, the Phariscees followed the Old Testament Law with perfection, however, they missed the point of that Law entirely when they looked down upon and Judged those who were failures at keeping the Law as being Lower or Less Worthy. Keeping the Letter of the Law is important, but keeping the Spirit of the Law(despite what our Letigious(sp) Society(ies) say) is even more important! The latter is where most Religious pesons fail, miserably.

Is Homosexuality a Sin?

This is a tough question to answer from a Practical point of view, at least in the present. Back in the Old Testament it makes more sense, or is more easily defended as such, to consider it a Sin.

1) We know now, and it likely was known then, that there are certain Health Issues or potential Issues involved in certain Homosexual sex practices. It should be noted that Male Homosexuality is specifically noted in the Bible, yet Female Homosexuality is not. Perhaps it was because Females were subjugated and less likely to engage in such activity though. Nevertheless, it is an interesting ommission.

2) Populations, especially for struggling Tribes were a vital issue. Any deviation from growing the population could lead to one's demise by a stronger more populous enemy.

These 2 points have(or seem to have) less importance in our current day. Safe sex, although right now it seems to be waning, has significantly decreased the Health Issues and very large(some say too large) Populations seem to negate the practical reasons to consider Homosexuality as a sin.

Does this make it not a sin? I think the concept of it as a sin, at least the continued existance of it being considered a sin by some people, is important to maintain. We don't know what the future holds, perhaps Nuclear War, Environmental Disaster, Plague, or some other Calamity will befall us returning Humanity to a point of struggle to avoid extinction. At that time, considering Homosexuality a sin, amongst other Moral Laws, will greatly benefit those who practice them.

 
sandorski,

that's not half bad. I don't know if I agree with you or not, but at least you make sense.
 
Originally posted by: bGIveNs33
The Bible is VERY clear that homosexuality is a sin. Now... why God would destine people to homosexuality(if Christianity is the truth) is the real question.

Wrong answer.

1. Homosexuality is not a sin, nor will any Scripture call it a sin
2. Scripture is adamite that sexual perversion is a sin
3. Scripture labels sodomy in a list of specific sexual perversions
4. Tradition holds that sex outside of marriage and procreation is perversion therefore a sin

Since all homosexual sex is considered outside of marriage then it is considered a sin.

I'm against homosexuals that engage in sexual perversion but in my mind they are free to express love without sex. I'm also against sex outside of marriage but we can probably count the number of people in these forums on one hand who made it to the marriage ceremony without some form of sexual contact before then.
 
From reading all the other debates on homosexualality, I think there are A LOT of closet homosexuals here on this forum. It's ok to come out you know, no one really cares. 😀

Also I wanted to comment on the homosexual animals.

Aren't humans and dolphins the only two mammals alive that have sex for pleasure? What about the rest of the animals? For all you know the two males or two females doing it one might be blind, or one might have seen a ball or something down there and mistook it for a guy/girl? What do you think? I don't think they know they are supposed to hump a guy/girl. They're stupid animals, not very big brains I would think. I don't know, I'm just guessing.

On another note, aren't there tons of christian based homosexual churches out there? If I'm not mistaken I could've sworn I've heard of these types of churches before. Homosexual christianity churches where they preach that homosexuality is not a sin and that God is ok with it based on certain scriptures in the bible? I can't recall.
 
Originally posted by: Drekce
Originally posted by: Jellomancer
Who cares if people are gay because of nature or nurture? What makes it wrong? Because the bible says so? Do you think God wrote the bible and dropped it down from the sky?

Yes...The Bible is the Inspired word of God. It did not drop down from the sky, but he used the writers to express what he wanted. The basis of Christianity is faith. If you have no faith that there is a God and that the Bible is his word then there is no point. No one will ever be able to scientifically trace back to the origins of life, no one will be able to prove that the Bible is or isn't God's words. You have to believe in God and accept Jesus into your life to be a Christian, being good alone will not cut it. And to do those things you must have faith in God.

Flame on...

This is correct. Last night I was talking to an employee who works with me. She said she wanted to die. I asked her why. She said because her life sucks. I then asked her if she believed in God. She said no, and gave me a reason of: he doesn't exist because this and that. I then went on and told her about him and how I believed in him, and that he isn't gonna just come around for everyone just so he can proove himself that he exists. I then went on and told her exactly what you just said, FAITH! I told her about faith and how he wants us to have faith and when the time is right he'll be back for us. For the ones who believed in the last day, for the ones who loved him and always believed. And the rest of them, I just told her we would tell the others who got left behind, "K-DEN catch you later!"
 
Originally posted by: Stark
Originally posted by: ElFenix

they're in prison because they hurt someone and violated a man-made law and have to suffer the man-made consequences. last i checked consensual sex usually doesn't have a victim.

the point is that having a genetic disposition for an action does not excuse one from the consequenses or judgement of any resulting actions by God or man.

According to the film "And the Band Played On," the AIDS epidemic in the US was the direct result of homosexual activity. That seems to be a well established historical fact. Consensual sex can have many "victims" even after the act itself is cleaned up and forgotten.

And there are man-made laws against playing in the brown bear cave, just like God has prohibitions concerning violence and murder.
note: i said "usually."

and why aren't heterosexuals ever prosecuted for sodomy (with the one exception of marv albert). hello, blow jobs are sodomy too.
 
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