how do corps get away with abusing the patent system?

[Patranus]

The patent system has become a complete joke. Blame lawyers, they fuck up everything they touch....look at the government.

The patent system is what made America the greatest and most innovative society this planet has ever seen.

 

[SMOGZINN]

The patent system is what made America the greatest and most innovative society this planet has ever seen.

No, I'm pretty sure that was the rest of the world bombing themselves back the the stoneage in the 1940's while America made lots of indusrty that became the entire worlds manufacturing base once people in Europe started wanting to replace all those destroyed buildings.

 

[Bignate603]

This is simply not true.



I don't know about you, but I don't have $10k that I can afford to gamble on a patent, much less $100,000. Understand that much of that money is gone no matter if you get the patent or not. Large companies have worked to make the patent process to expensive for most people.

You may want to check how much it actually costs to file a patent before you make claims. It costs less than $2k to for a "small entity" which would include an independent inventor to file for a simple patent.

This is true, but it is also true that inventers that have patents that work are chewed up and spit out by the system. As someone already said a patent is only worth it if you can defend it. It is very hard for a small company to defend a patent against something like Apple.
So, even if you manage to get the 10k together to patent your idea, you could be buried under hundreds of thousands of dollars of lawsuits by a large company. All before you are even allowed to sell your product.

They system has been usurped by large corporations that have set up the rules to ensure that they can crush any competition that is smaller then them.

This is why they recently moved from a "first to invent" system to a "first to file" system. It makes it much harder for big companies to push around small inventors.

 

[Ns1]

You may want to check how much it actually costs to file a patent before you make claims. It costs less than $2k to for a "small entity" which would include an independent inventor to file for a simple patent.

costs:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee092611.htm

 

[SMOGZINN]

You may want to check how much it actually costs to file a patent before you make claims. It costs less than $2k to for a "small entity" which would include an independent inventor to file for a simple patent.

I quoted the acting director of the San Francisco patent office. You have given no counter.

 

[CanOWorms]

I quoted the acting director of the San Francisco patent office. You have given no counter.

There is no San Francisco patent office. The USPTO is in Alexandria, Virginia. New locations are being planned, but only Detroit has been selected so far.

 

[Ns1]

I quoted the acting director of the San Francisco patent office. You have given no counter.

You simply picked one estimate out of many (the highest too, on a list sorted from high to low)

http://www.inventionstatistics.com/Patent_Cost.html

$1000 plus. Cost of a patent without using a patent attorney. “The costs can add up, too. Even without using a patent attorney, fees will exceed $1,000.” How much does it cost to get inventions patented? (Thomas Loop, Loop Intellectual Property Law, PLLC, quoted in Doug Cooley, “A bent to invent,” Puget Sound Business Journal, July 26, 2002)

$1000. Cost to patent a side-to-side playground swing invented by 6-year-old boy and approved by the U.S. Patent Office. “Warning to little children on playgrounds everywhere: when playing on a swing set, do not swing side to side. That method of swinging has been patented.” Peter Olson, the father of the 6-year old boy who patented the invention (patent 6,368,227), says that parents and children around the world can rest assured because the family has no plans to enforce the patent. Olson, a patent lawyer for 3M, used the exercise to teach his son how the patent process worked, “said that he was extremely surprised that the idea made it through the patent process, and at not too high of a price. The whole process ended up costing only about $1,000, and the family only saw the idea rejected once.” Price of a patent. (Mark Reilly & Jim Martyka, “Inventions reflect innovation, patience, even humor,” Minneapolis / St. Paul Business Journal, August 16, 2002). Learn more about the fascinating world of kid inventors.

 

[zinfamous]

it exists for abuse, that's why.

 

[Patranus]

This is why they recently moved from a "first to invent" system to a "first to file" system. It makes it much harder for big companies to push around small inventors.

Huh? Its the exact opposite. Who do you think has the resourced to file a patent?
It makes it much easier to push around the small guy.

 

[SMOGZINN]

You simply picked one estimate out of many (the highest too, on a list sorted from high to low)

http://www.inventionstatistics.com/Patent_Cost.html

You are right, it was a 10 second search. I don't mind being corrected, and you did a good job of it with your first list.

My point is that the patent process is obscure, expensive, and not for the layman.

 

[Bignate603]

costs:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/ac/qs/ope/fee092611.htm

I know, the bare minimum is $625 but most patents are going to pay some stuff on top of that because of their claims structure, having to redo something, or even something as stupid as late fees. It's easy to end up over $1k so that's why I said "Less than $2k".

I've been through the patent process 5 times so far, and yes the big corporation I work for paid for the patents. However, when we're looking at freedom to practice for a new technology you better believe that we take a small inventor's patent just as seriously as that of another large company. If we can't design it another way we end up negotiating a licensing fee with the inventor. I haven't seen a single small inventor that wasn't looking for opportunities to sell their ideas. That was the whole reason why they patented it in the first place.

 

[zinfamous]

The patent system is what made America the greatest and most innovative society this planet has ever seen.

greatest, really?

I guess when the planet is using our innovations thousands of years later (like we're still using the Roman's concrete and their arches, and the Persians sewer system and mathematics...) you can make that argument.

lol.

Silicon is quite impressive, of course. --but none of that is because of the patent system. it simply protected individuals, only one of many who made these exact same inventions at the same time.

The fallacy of history illiterates--thinking that innovation is the singular product of some ethereal tart granting the grace of genius upon individuals living and working within a vacuum.

No, the patent system has nothing to do with innovation, it's about protecting the profit of inventors. Hell, the first great patent troll was probably Edison, abusing the system as early as anyone could.

 

[zinfamous]

Huh? Its the exact opposite. Who do you think has the resourced to file a patent?
It makes it much easier to push around the small guy.

agree with this.

 

[Bignate603]

Huh? Its the exact opposite. Who do you think has the resourced to file a patent?
It makes it much easier to push around the small guy.

We've already determined that it takes very little money to file a patent. You don't need a lawyer to file one, especially if it is something simple.

A patent is the only hope for a "little guy" to hold on to his ideas. If they didn't have a patent there would be no chance for them to keep it from getting stolen out from under them by somebody with more resources to bring it to market.

 

[CanOWorms]

Huh? Its the exact opposite. Who do you think has the resourced to file a patent?
It makes it much easier to push around the small guy.

I suppose we need to define what we mean by "the small guy" because it's quite easy for someone to start suing the hell out of large corporations, potentially costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars, and persuade them to eventually settle.

 

[0roo0roo]

Slide to unlock!?!?!? Switching to an app during a call!?!?!? C'mon... Is it that easy to abuse the system?

don't hate the player hate the game?

 

[RabidMongoose]

I don't know about you, but I don't have $10k that I can afford to gamble on a patent, much less $100,000. Understand that much of that money is gone no matter if you get the patent or not. Large companies have worked to make the patent process to expensive for most people.

That $10,000 is for a professional writing the patent application and the USPTO filing fees. The USPTO filing fees themselves are not anywhere near $10,000. I believe that small entity fees for patent filing are around $500-$600 and you might need to add at least another $500 during the time period where you're trying to get the patent application allowed.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I think it's the opposite. Small inventors are scared to come up with something only for a big company to scoop it up from under them and they wont be allowed to even use what they came up with first. Or they might have an idea but they can't use it because it's already patented. Only the big rich companies are capable of patenting some of these crazy silly things.

How often do you hear of inventors who came up with something in their garage, the patent office hears of it, and you never hear of this person ever again. I even wonder if these people get locked up. Anything that could potentially bring down the oil industry is always very touchy and quickly put on the shelf and never heard of again. Look at tesla, most of his work was destroyed because the government feared it.

True inventors want to invent something to try to change the world, not to make money.

You are either naive, or a crackpot. Maybe both.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

greatest, really?

I guess when the planet is using our innovations thousands of years later (like we're still using the Roman's concrete and their arches, and the Persians sewer system and mathematics...) you can make that argument.
...
No, the patent system has nothing to do with innovation, it's about protecting the profit of inventors. Hell, the first great patent troll was probably Edison, abusing the system as early as anyone could.

Transistors were invented and patented in the U.S. and arguably changed the world more profoundly in 60 years concrete, arches, and sewers did in thousands of years.

The patent system has everything to do with incentivizing innovation. Money makes the world go round, as they say.

With notable exceptions, very few inventions are made by individuals who simply want to donate their ideas to the public.

Last, I'd wager my considerable life savings and all other possessions that if any person posting in this thread came up with a profitable idea, he/she would protect it with a patent or scream VERY loudly if a competitor started using it without paying some form of compensation. Anyone who says otherwise is either naive, a terrible businessman, insane, a saint, or some combination thereof.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

That $10,000 is for a professional writing the patent application and the USPTO filing fees. The USPTO filing fees themselves are not anywhere near $10,000. I believe that small entity fees for patent filing are around $500-$600 and you might need to add at least another $500 during the time period where you're trying to get the patent application allowed.

The small entity filing fees are currently $560. The new america invents act mandates the provision of microentity fees that are even smaller.

A patent application of average complexity takes about 40 hours of atorney time to draft. Depending on the firm and the attorney's billable rate, the cost of that time may range from $3000-10,000.

U.S. patent applications typically go through a few rounds of examination. If no extensions of time are needed, each round costs ~$500 for small entities.

 

[Sho'Nuff]

I don't know about you, but I don't have $10k that I can afford to gamble on a patent, much less $100,000. Understand that much of that money is gone no matter if you get the patent or not. Large companies have worked to make the patent process to expensive for most people.
...
So, even if you manage to get the 10k together to patent your idea, you could be buried under hundreds of thousands of dollars of lawsuits by a large company. All before you are even allowed to sell your product.

You are operating under a fundamental misunderstanding of how business works.

Patents are business tools. They are not things that are to be sought on a fly by night whim. They cost a lot, but they can provide a lot of protection and business leverage if properly drafted and prosecuted.

In a nutshell, here is how many startups get rolling:

-Inventor develops an idea with commercial promise

-Inventor incorporates as an S-corp, LLC, or other limited liability entity and transfers all IP assets (at this point just an idea) to the entity.

-Inventor develops a business plan for the corp. to commercialize the invention. If inventor/corp has the capital, inventor seeks patent protection for the invention in markets of interest.

-Inventor seeks seed capital for the corp. based on his business plan and (potentially) IP assets already in place. If no IP assets are in place, inventor may seek money to assist with that piece of the puzzle. In any event, at this stage of the bsuiness everything is very risky. Inventor should be prepared to give substantial equity interest in the company/IP to any venture capitalist - else the company may never get off the ground. Having some IP assets prior to seeking seed money can make fundraising easier, as the VC can attach a lien to the IP assets. In any case, all disclosures with venture capitalists are usually made under a non-disclosure agreement.

-Once seed money is obtained, business moves forward according to the business plan.

In sum, patents make a lot of sense when you act and think like a businessman.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


and more


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[disappoint]

don't hate the player hate the game?

What if the players changed the rules to the game?

Don't thoughtlessly parrot sound bites.

 

[Red Squirrel]

You are either naive, or a crackpot. Maybe both.

Bullshit. Watch/read a few documentaries on inventors who wanted to come up with new ways to harvest energy. They did not care about the money, they just wanted to bring new green energy to the public. I wish I'd remember the names of the shows. I just remember seeing a bunch of shows back to back on Discovery and it really opens your eyes on the corruption behind the government and the oil industry. With SOPA and all the other crap that's been going on lately, it actually makes it even more believable. The government IS evil, they aren't here for the people at all, they are here for their own and corporations' interests. It all falls down to money, and that's all they care about. Cure cancer, or get 1 billion dollars? They'll take the money, and make sure the cure does not get out there, if it threatens them somehow.

There is plenty of known energy technologies out there, but we're not allowed to use them because the oil industry has them. Most types of electric cars cannot be used for example. That's why there is none of them on the road. Hybrids are ok because they still use gas. And that's just energy, the same idea exist everywhere else.

Apple patents all sorts of stupid crap, because they want to make it harder and harder for competitors to make similar products. Take the slide to lock patent for example. I'm sure if I decided to make a software program and went to the patent office because I want to patent that, they'd laugh at me. But because it's a big corporation, they get anything they want no matter how silly it is. Patents do nothing but promote monopolies.

I am a strong believer that everything should be open. Information should be used by anyone who finds it, or creates it. I should be able to open up a device, find a way to make it better, and release my own version of that device, or see if I can find a cheaper way to produce it, and release a similar one.

It's retarded that advancement is halted by artificial limitations such as patents, copyright and other red tape like that. If it was not for all that crap we'd be extremely evolved even further. Look at China, they're basically a 3rd world country, but because they don't care about copyright and all that bullshit, they are more advanced than lot of 1st world countries when it comes to technology. They'll find information anywhere, and put it to use. They are resourceful.

 

[Phoenix86]

Watch/read a few documentaries on inventors who wanted to come up with...

vs. a patent attorney... on the subject of patents.

/popcorn :awe: