How difficult is body work?

[Pacfanweb]

exdeath nailed it.

My dad ran a large body shop. I grew up doing bodywork. I hate it. It's not easy, and it really IS a form of art. Anyone can pick up a manual and do mechanical work. How deep they go into an engine depends on how much they want to read.

Bodywork, you can't just learn from a book. Someone has to show you, and then you need lots of practice, and simply put, the innate talent and an eye for when you have it right. I can get any body panel "right", but I just don't have the eye for it like some do.....takes me longer, and it's more frustrating.

 

[exdeath]

Originally posted by: Pacfanweb
exdeath nailed it.

My dad ran a large body shop. I grew up doing bodywork. I hate it. It's not easy, and it really IS a form of art. Anyone can pick up a manual and do mechanical work. How deep they go into an engine depends on how much they want to read.

Bodywork, you can't just learn from a book. Someone has to show you, and then you need lots of practice, and simply put, the innate talent and an eye for when you have it right. I can get any body panel "right", but I just don't have the eye for it like some do.....takes me longer, and it's more frustrating.

The problem I have is that when it comes to body work there is no "right" but simply "good enough". No mater how good you are it will never be factory perfect again, and that annoys me, being that I'm more logically and mathematically minded with zero artistic talent.

I'd sand and beat all the metal away until there was nothing left in my quest to make it "perfect" instead of just stopping when it's "good enough".

 

[jlee]

I don't necessarily expect 100% perfection, but I'd like to get the ugly repairs cleaned up a bit..from the photos, it looks like someone used pop rivets or something to stick sheet metal on the rockers. I have no problems with replacing a fender..will probably just find one and stick it on.

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: JLee

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: JLee

I have one. JDM 3SGTE, CT20B at 15psi with an EMS Powered MBC, fuel cut defender, Apexi intake, XS Power intercooler, Berk downpipe, Berk exhaust, Centerforce clutch, Suspension Techniques sways, twosrus endlinks, Koni Yellows...I also had an '86 MR2 for about 3 years. They can be a PITA to work on..but it's worth it. 😉

I can still get T-Top seals from Toyota...love it.

The 3VZ will bolt directly to the factory turbo tranny with no modification. One adapter bracket is required for the passenger side motor mount.

Well shit, you know the car a whole lot better than I do 🙂

Look at it this way, then, if you pick up the NA, it can be a parts car for some items if you royally hose it.

Is the EMS MBC a 2 stage (bleeder and ball/spring)? Those work really well on the CT-26s that we run. Mine is stock, except with 3" pipes and high flow cats from the turbo back, which gives me ~9 PSI from the factory 6.

Are those Koni Yellows as hard to adjust as they say? You have to lift the car to adjust the valve, right? The ST sways are probably the best bang for the buck suspension upgrade there is, if you can keep the plastic endlinks in one piece. Better than switching to metal and ripping the tabs off the A-Arms though...

The driver's side tab was torn and the endlink was snapped right off. Twosrus endlinks and some welded reinforcement should fix that. I'm waiting on reinforcement plates for the chassis mount- some people end up ripping the sways right out of the frame..I want to avoid that if at all possible!

I'm still waiting on new axle cages (lifetime warranty, good for 700hp+), so I haven't even driven on the Koni's yet..(I have two spring/strut assemblies ready to go back in, and two more awaiting reassembly- weather has sucked these past couple of days). I haven't heard that they're difficult to adjust, but I haven't tried either!

This is the MBC I have.

IIRC the NA manual trans is the S54 and the turbo manual trans is the E153. I could be wrong, though.

That's a pretty nice MBC. How well does it work, any spiking?

You're correct on the transmissions. For some reason, I thought the W58 was common to the NA Supra and Turbo MR2. I must be thinking of a different car.

The endlink mounts have always been a problem, so Toyota just designed the endlink itself to be the weak point. I know a lot of folks that ripped the tabs right off after they switched to metal. However, if you can weld, its not a big deal, as you can reinforce it.

Man, I'm starting to get the urge to get an MR2-T again.

Works great- I haven't had any spiking issues. My strut tab was torn by a factory end link..and since I'm going with heavy-duty ones now, I had everything reinforced. I need to learn to weld so I can do that stuff myself.

 

[Sluggo]

It takes 5 minutes to learn body work, but a lifetime to master it.

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: JLee

Works great- I haven't had any spiking issues. My strut tab was torn by a factory end link..and since I'm going with heavy-duty ones now, I had everything reinforced. I need to learn to weld so I can do that stuff myself.

When my Supra rolled closer to 200k miles, I gave it a retirement present by restoring the suspension to all factory components. I'm sort of getting the itch to install ST sways, though. I'd probably stick with the plastic end links just because I need those to be the weak point, though.

Have you done anything w/ the electronics? I know that a popular mod for the mk3 supra is a S-AFC plus a wideband to better trim the fuel delivery. Our ECU runs very, very rich on the stock maps. I've never been willing to put my engine at risk since I know I'd probably screw it up, though.

I trolled MR2trader for a little bit this afternoon. No stock turbos for sale near me 🙁

 

[jlee]

Register on MR2OC.com and check there. 🙂

I'm still within the limits of the stock ECU's ability to provide fuel - but I think I'm nearing the upper range..if I do much more, I'll have to do something about it.

I'd love a wideband and standalone..but that's a bit too pricey for me at this point.

Your end links are plastic..? 😕 My stock ones are definitely metal..not very beefy, though.

 

[lsd]

Good luck with the body work, as said it's very difficult. It wouldn't hurt to try though! Same thing with welding, easy to learn but hard to master. Make sure you use at least mig and not flux core, flux core just comes out nasty even with good prepping.

You can get a innovate LC-1 WB, it's only $200. You don't need any fancy unless gauges just hook it to your laptop and log to your hearts content.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: lsd
Good luck with the body work, as said it's very difficult. It wouldn't hurt to try though! Same thing with welding, easy to learn but hard to master. Make sure you use at least mig and not flux core, flux core just comes out nasty even with good prepping.

You can get a innovate LC-1 WB, it's only $200. You don't need any fancy unless gauges just hook it to your laptop and log to your hearts content.

That is another option...I could skip spending $600 on this car, and get a DP w/wideband port, LC-1...water/meth injection...or something. 😛

 

[sjwaste]

Originally posted by: JLee
Register on MR2OC.com and check there. 🙂

I'm still within the limits of the stock ECU's ability to provide fuel - but I think I'm nearing the upper range..if I do much more, I'll have to do something about it.

I'd love a wideband and standalone..but that's a bit too pricey for me at this point.

Your end links are plastic..? 😕 My stock ones are definitely metal..not very beefy, though.

Haha, don't feed my desire to buy an MR2. Actually, that's a solid site, I'd forgotten about it.

Stock MK3 Supra endlinks are, indeed, plastic. They're fairly strong, but designed to break before the mounting tabs do. The stock bars are also hollow, so they flex quite a bit, reducing the strain on the end links. Going to something like the ST's will break them more frequently because they just become the weakest point (by design) in the chain.

You can do a wideband for like $200 as someone else mentioned, using a certain Honda O2 sensor used on some of their leaner-burn vehicles.

The S-AFC isn't a standalone, it just trims fuel. But if you're running towards the edges of the stock maps, trimming is probably not what you need. It's RPM-mapped, though, so if you're rich at WOT (just about any stock car is), you can pull out some fuel at the top end. Again, not sure if it's worth squeezing out an extra 10HP for the safety margin.

Are you on a stock CT20b, or have you stuffed a bigger wheel in there? On the CT26, many folks love using a 54 trim without clipping the stock exhaust end. Allows for quite a bit more power without increasing lag. However, the CT26 is horribly inefficient at much over stock boost. We have someone on the Supras list that measured intake and charge temps, and the charge temps go scary high on those overboosted stock turbos.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

Step 1:
Get a hammer and dolly.

Step 2:
Get a dented fender

Step 3:
Practice until it's smooth.

 

[jlee]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: JLee
Register on MR2OC.com and check there. 🙂

I'm still within the limits of the stock ECU's ability to provide fuel - but I think I'm nearing the upper range..if I do much more, I'll have to do something about it.

I'd love a wideband and standalone..but that's a bit too pricey for me at this point.

Your end links are plastic..? 😕 My stock ones are definitely metal..not very beefy, though.

Haha, don't feed my desire to buy an MR2. Actually, that's a solid site, I'd forgotten about it.

Stock MK3 Supra endlinks are, indeed, plastic. They're fairly strong, but designed to break before the mounting tabs do. The stock bars are also hollow, so they flex quite a bit, reducing the strain on the end links. Going to something like the ST's will break them more frequently because they just become the weakest point (by design) in the chain.

You can do a wideband for like $200 as someone else mentioned, using a certain Honda O2 sensor used on some of their leaner-burn vehicles.

The S-AFC isn't a standalone, it just trims fuel. But if you're running towards the edges of the stock maps, trimming is probably not what you need. It's RPM-mapped, though, so if you're rich at WOT (just about any stock car is), you can pull out some fuel at the top end. Again, not sure if it's worth squeezing out an extra 10HP for the safety margin.

Are you on a stock CT20b, or have you stuffed a bigger wheel in there? On the CT26, many folks love using a 54 trim without clipping the stock exhaust end. Allows for quite a bit more power without increasing lag. However, the CT26 is horribly inefficient at much over stock boost. We have someone on the Supras list that measured intake and charge temps, and the charge temps go scary high on those overboosted stock turbos.

IIRC, MR2s run pig-rich from the factory.

Stock CT20B. Noshoes had one and ran an...11.8 quarter, I think? Granted, I can almost guarantee that's with head work, cams, etc.

The typical replacement for the stock CT26 is either a CT20B or a CT27 from ATS Racing. Bigger than that, you're looking at the 300hp+ range. The next thing I should probably do is run an RPM switch to the TVIS setup and have it open earlier. You're exactly right about the CT26 - it can't breathe very well at higher boost levels.

Great info here.

 

[lsd]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: JLee
Register on MR2OC.com and check there. 🙂

I'm still within the limits of the stock ECU's ability to provide fuel - but I think I'm nearing the upper range..if I do much more, I'll have to do something about it.

I'd love a wideband and standalone..but that's a bit too pricey for me at this point.

Your end links are plastic..? 😕 My stock ones are definitely metal..not very beefy, though.

You can do a wideband for like $200 as someone else mentioned, using a certain Honda O2 sensor used on some of their leaner-burn vehicles.

The S-AFC isn't a standalone, it just trims fuel. But if you're running towards the edges of the stock maps, trimming is probably not what you need. It's RPM-mapped, though, so if you're rich at WOT (just about any stock car is), you can pull out some fuel at the top end. Again, not sure if it's worth squeezing out an extra 10HP for the safety margin.

The LC-1 comes with a WB02 sensor already, I believe it's the bosch LSU4.2 that just about all the wbo2 kits use. Personally I have a zeitronix kit.
If your running out of range on your stock fuel map, it's time to upgrade those injectors/afm. You can use the s-afc to "trick" the stock ecu and be able to use larger injectors and higher resolution MAF. At least that's how it works on most compatible cars.