How did the media pull it off. Turning teachers,firefighters into the enemy #1

[cwjerome]

The other one that I find funny is when they talk about how it's tough to work with kids. Maybe so, but the kids have little control over them. Try working with angry clients who can take away your livelihood, idiot bosses who can take away your livelihood, all sorts of idiot co-workers who shirk work or who suck up to bosses. Private industry isn't a bunch of adults sipping tea in comfy chairs while wearing ascots.

While I sincerely thought of your position as basically grounded, this indicates a lack of understanding that to me makes your whole view on the matter suspect at best.

If you think an occupation -teaching- that is consistently rated one of the more stressful to have doesn't deal with pissed clients (students and parents) horrible bosses, and idiot co-workers, then you're out of touch. Besides, some teachers may have to deal with little of this and some will have to deal with a lot of it... just like in the private sector, some a little, some a lot. There's a lot of variation in both teaching and outside of teaching.

I suppose you think a Taco Bell worker should get paid as much as a teacher because they're "working with angry clients who can take away your livelihood, idiot bosses who can take away your livelihood, all sorts of idiot co-workers who shirk work or who suck up to bosses." The reality is your argument carries little weight... firefighters and enlisted soldiers have VERY stressful jobs but aren't paid a ton of money.

Besides having wrongheaded notions of economic fairness, it seems to me you have a generally low opinion of educators and don't value teaching and learning much. That's what I'm getting out of your posts.

 

[DCal430]

Saying teachers are getting 32k before paying taxes with a 4 year degree is being pretty generous. When I was in high school a decade ago every one of my teachers had to reach into their own pocket to chip in the low budget school system. They had a hard cap limit of 30 paper copies a month for all 7-8 periods of their class just for starters and this was a decade ago before Repubs started chomping at the bit to slash and slash school budgets even further.

If schools are hard pressed to pay for things as cheap as making paper copies for tests and crap I can't even imagine what good teachers are paying out of pocket to compensate for steeper budget cuts. It's a god damned disgrace that there are thousands of well paying jobs in America going unfilled because there aren't enough Americans properly educated enough to fill them all any more. I don't see how that is going to improve with ever greater budget cuts.

The average teacher in California makes around 70K a year and is better off than most of the people in the state. For hours worked teachers are paid better than most with similar degrees.

 

[DCal430]

I don't know where you get firefighters don't make a lot of money, but most in California at least make over 100K, with higher level positions averaging over 200K a year. They also get 100% pay retirement after 33 years.

You must be thinking of volunteer firefighters. Obviously they don't make much.

 

[JSt0rm]

I don't know where you get firefighters don't make a lot of money, but most in California at least make over 100K, with higher level positions averaging over 200K a year. They also get 100% pay retirement after 33 years.

You must be thinking of volunteer firefighters. Obviously they don't make much.

I think the 33 year retirement is a good thing. You dont want those guys carrying a 300 lb man down 5 flights of stairs.

 

[Sonikku]

I see that the mind control by your school system was successful - from their point of view of course.

Right, the mind control. In truth, starting out teachers are actually smoking Cuban cigars and driving a Lamborghini when they aren't wiping their asses with hundred dollar bills. :\

 

[Exterous]

Says the teacher (IIRC).

The thing is nobody else gets the amazing benefits. And that's a salary for working 3/4s of the year which is ridiculous. So I would say it would be more fair if they made a fair amount less but it would even out to middle class considering the pensions, health care, and extreme job security that nobody else has.

Eh? Amazing benefits? Where are mine then? My wife's a teacher at a public school and we pay a couple hundred a month for 80% coverrage with $1000 deductible each and a $4000 max out of pocket. That's in addition to the 3% of her salary we already pay for health care (we would have to pay that even if we didn't take her benefits!) the only reason we still went with them is because we are healthy and my company gives me money if I don't take their plan

Job security? Last year a school district laid off Every teacher there for less than 7 years. Another one near by did every one with less than 5 years in district. Programs are being cut left and right and those teachers lose their jobs. Job security not found

The biggest issue, IMO, is that people treat teachers like a large country wide mass even though management, pay, organization varies widely by district. Sure, some teachers make too much - the same as anysaother job but it's important to remember that these places are the exception not the rule

(and I think someone was talking about the non public school options. Fwiw no one wants to work at the charter/private around here that don't charge large tuition fees. The ones that do charge large fees are generally highly sought after due to the behaved nature of the students, pay, benefits and education subsidizes that are much better than public schools)

 

[alkemyst]

That 3% deal is usually for the pension, not health insurance.

The thing with teaching is if you are going to stagnate at your first job then you will be underpaid. Some University professors are in the 1% income bracket, many are well into the top 5% of the nation. They also have a ton of free time to do other things.

I love when teachers tell me their 3-4 months off is not really downtime since they are required to renew certifications...

I fucking have to read on my own time. Went through 5000 pages probably in the last 8 months all after hours and on my weekends

 

[DCal430]

The teachers I know only do one or two weeks of training during the summer. They spend 90% of their summer having fun.

 

[alkemyst]

The teachers I know only do one or two weeks of training during the summer. They spend 90% of their summer having fun.

Yeah...that is what they don't think most of us know.

When I was dating heavily the most common profession of the women I met at happy hours and late into the night were teachers. Next best were receptionists/executive assistants. I tended to lean toward the more brainy I guess out of the physically hot.

Nurses were another popular one.

 

[hal2kilo]

In the beginning the Tea party, and the regular American Joe six pack were all asking for heads the "Evil bankers and Wall street folk" and enemy #1 was the Big Bankers (ie GS etc..)

The American public was upset about the bailouts, lemon socialism handed to the bankers when they made a bad bet. the classic privatizing profits, socializing losses.

Then somehow the real enemy has become the average teacher, firefighter and cop etc.. They are now the "Evil enemy" The Tea party and Joe Six pack have forgotten about Wall street and now the enemy is some elementary school teacher.

Seems like a perfect execution of changing the message.

Read 1984 it's called "double speak"

 

[Exterous]

That 3% deal is usually for the pension, not health insurance.

Nope. In Michigan you are paying 3% towards your health care. Granted its your health care after you retire but you are forced to pay that whether you use that health care or not. So even if we used my current employers health care for the rest of our lives and never used her offered health care we would still have to pay 3% of her salary towards it every year

Edit: It appears I was partly mistaken for this upcoming year. The Michigan Courts declared this as unconstitutional as it required you to pay for something you might not use or even be available when you retire. Interestingly enough Snyder already agreed in December to return the state employees 3% but has not yet said he will be returning the teachers 3% with-holdings.

 

[alkemyst]

That's what I meant as 'pension', 3% now for good healthcare is a bargain.

I am sure many that get out of this will try to get the state to pick up the tab later

 

[Exterous]

That's what I meant as 'pension', 3% now for good healthcare is a bargain.

I am sure many that get out of this will try to get the state to pick up the tab later

*shrug* To each his own I guess. I don't consider being required to pay for something you might not use or that might not even be there when you retire a good thing. The benefits quality has declined drastically over the last couple of years and I would rather put that 3% into something I can control than into the hands of people who have a proven track record of poor long term decision making and definately dont have my best interests at heart (Its not like other people's pensions have vanished into thin air or anything...)

 

[alkemyst]

*shrug* To each his own I guess. I don't consider being required to pay for something you might not use or that might not even be there when you retire a good thing. The benefits quality has declined drastically over the last couple of years and I would rather put that 3% into something I can control than into the hands of people who have a proven track record of poor long term decision making and definately dont have my best interests at heart (Its not like other people's pensions have vanished into thin air or anything...)

SS was the same way...when it was created there was a good chance you wouldn't benefit from it directly. The direct benefit was you weren't paying welfare and support for those that did live long enough.

IMHO that 3% that teachers get taken out automatically would never go to any real savings for them. Out of the teachers I do know, most don't save much and are living beyond their means.

Guaranteed health care is a great insurance plan. If you do need it, you will have no real affordable options at that time.

I am sure most figure 'the country' will take care of them.

 

[Exterous]

Guaranteed health care is a great insurance plan.

Thats the whole point - its NOT guaranteed. There were two plans before the Michigan congress and they specifically passed the one that DID NOT guarantee health benefits after retirement. (The other one was the same 3% but guaranteed a minimum coverage rate) They can, and have, changed the benefits and they have always changed them for the worse (so far) yet its still the same 3% contribution (even though the health plan is much MUCH worse this year)

I think it should be an option. You can opt to take the risk or can opt to not take the risk (but then dont get benefits even if they are still around). I do not agree with forcing people to pay for benefits with no guarantee those benefits they paid for will still be around