How did pro-life vs abortion rights become a conservative vs liberal thing?

[umbrella39]

Or perhaps we actually thought that killing innocent human beings was wrong then as now.

Yet you have ZERO issues with taking away their parents welfare and food stamps so you can starve them after they are born. Kick them out into the streets so they are homeless in an I'll advised attempt to punish their parents for having the nerve to do what YOU demand, have another child. Your type fools no one but yourselves.... Liberals seem to care about the living a whole lot more than conservatives...

 

[zinfamous]

The definition was literally in the link I-oh why do I bother.



Whereas science references it as starting at conception.

ah, now you're conflating life (again, not exactly true of what happens at conception, either), with humanity.

 

[brycejones]

Technically they are POTENTIAL human beings.

FTFY

 

[Vic]

Yes. Thou shalt not murder.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_shalt_not_kill

And yet, strangely, the "pro-lifers," and conservatives in general, are much more likely to be pro-war. And those bombs we drop on foreign countries murder countless innocent children, without a "pro-lifer" ever shedding a single tear.

 

[brycejones]

Yet you have ZERO issues with taking away their parents welfare and food stamps so you can starve them after they are born. Kick them out into the streets so they are homeless in an I'll advised attempt to punish their parents for having the nerve to do what YOU demand, have another child. Your type fools no one but yourselves.... Liberals seem to care about the living a whole lot more than conservatives...

Left out reducing access to health care, mental health care, substance abuse treatment, reducing environmental regulation so they can live in a more polluted environment, reducing education spending.

But they care about life. /s

 

[fskimospy]

I suppose there's nothing inherently conservative about banning murder either, since it involves government coercion to preempt or punish it.

Furthermore the government tells us, and has told us, what to do with our bodies on plenty of occasions. The draft, quarantine laws, even jury duty. We go to jail for non-compliance.

Sure, but being pressed into government service isn't a small government conservative position.

 

[kage69]

Partly because republicans wanted a wedge issue to gain them more single issue voters, and partly because it was social authoritarian/religious right resistance to women's rights.

 

[hal2kilo]

A few reasons:
- One of the founding core principles of liberalism, as put forth by Locke way back when, is that of self-ownership of one's person/body.
- In addition to the above, abortion is about women's rights to self-ownership of their persons, and conservatives are generally opposed to women's rights.
- Finally, social conservatives are primarily sexual authoritarians. So if other people (especially women) are having sex that they disapprove of, then those people MUST be punished for it.
The most thing to know about the abortion issue is that "pro-lifers" do not give a rats ass about the babies. Don't ever be fooled by that bullshit. The only thing they care about is controlling other peoples' sexual activity. Which is why "pro-lifers" are almost always anti-birth control and anti-LGBT as well.

I suspect that's really main reason.

 

[Atreus21]

Why? Because they have human DNA? There are lots of things that have human DNA we don't consider Human Beings.

Yes. Just as any child, adult, or geriatric does.

"The scientific answer is that the embryo is a human being from the time of fertilization because of its human chromosomal constitution. The zygote is the beginning of a developing human."

Keith L. Moore, T.V.N. Persaud, Mark G. Torchia, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 8th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2013. p.327

They can not live outside their host, humans can.

Arbitrary.

 

[Paratus]

Or perhaps we actually thought that killing innocent human beings was wrong then as now.

As you and I have discussed you have no issue with dead kids, just abortion.

As long as it’s spontaneous abortion or miscarriage it doesn’t matter. You could have a dead kid every month from the time you got married until your wife hits menopause and that wouldn’t be something you are responsible for or would be in trouble with God for.

But take an abortificient.......

 

[Atreus21]

Yet you have ZERO issues with taking away their parents welfare and food stamps so you can starve them after they are born. Kick them out into the streets so they are homeless in an I'll advised attempt to punish their parents for having the nerve to do what YOU demand, have another child. Your type fools no one but yourselves.... Liberals seem to care about the living a whole lot more than conservatives...

More diversions. Pro-lifers comprise a huge contingent of support services for expectant mothers and the impoverished.

 

[Atreus21]

As you and I have discussed you have no issue with dead kids, just abortion.

As long as it’s spontaneous abortion or miscarriage it doesn’t matter. You could have a dead kid every month from the time you got married until your wife hits menopause and that wouldn’t be something you are responsible for or would be in trouble with God for.

But take an abortificient.......

We're not called to account for circumstances fundamentally outside of our control. A child getting killed by a lightning strike isn't a crime. A father killing his son is, or should be.

 

[Paratus]

We're not called to account for circumstances fundamentally outside of our control. A child getting killed by a lightning strike isn't a crime. A father killing his son is, or should be.

Right because you are not responsible for the results of your decision to have sex.

 

[mect]

Or perhaps we actually thought that killing innocent human beings was wrong then as now.

So should we start charging women that have multiple miscarriages with manslaughter?

 

[abj13]

"The scientific answer is that the embryo is a human being from the time of fertilization because of its human chromosomal constitution. The zygote is the beginning of a developing human."

Keith L. Moore, T.V.N. Persaud, Mark G. Torchia, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 8th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2013. p.327

Good thing you selectively quote things out of context from textbooks. What are the lines before and after that line?

Furthermore, when does twinning occur? Several days after fertilization. Like always, you keep posting your same logical fallacies.

 

[umbrella39]

More diversions. Pro-lifers comprise a huge contingent of support services for expectant mothers and the impoverished.

I'd respect your opinion much more if you weren't so dishonest. Conservatives seem to delight when some feel good legislation is passed that is aimed at punishing the parents of babies you demand be born. I've seen it here first hand. It's patently ridiculous for you to take the moral high ground now... You aren't pro life... You are clearly only pro birth...

 

[kage69]

More diversions. Pro-lifers comprise a huge contingent of support services for expectant mothers and the impoverished.

It's like every abortion thread we have, you sink a little farther into the bullshit. "Pro-lifers" also comprise ALL of the support for legislation that increases hardship and risk for low income mothers! Look what your "pro-life" policies have done for mothers in Texas, for instance. Don't we have, as a country, the highest maternal mortality rate in the developed world? Wtf are you crowing about again?

You want to support expectant mothers and the impoverished? Quit trying to legislate punishment for women having sex, start giving a damn about post natal care, stop fighting contraception and education tooth and nail. Maybe quit this bullshit of where the feelings of religious people are of paramount concern, while women's bodies should be stripped of agency because your Bronze Age fiction says so. Might lead to someone taking you seriously.

 

[kage69]

I'd respect your opinion much more if you weren't so dishonest. Conservatives seem to delight when some feel good legislation is passed that is aimed at punishing the parents of babies you demand be born. I've seen it here first hand. It's patently ridiculous for you to take the moral high ground now... You aren't pro life... You are clearly only pro birth...

Exactly.

https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a10033320/pro-life-abortion/

 

[hal2kilo]

More diversions. Pro-lifers comprise a huge contingent of support services for expectant mothers and the impoverished.

You mean the fake ones, that spend all their time trying to talk the women out of want she wants?

 

[Zorba]

Yes. Just as any child, adult, or geriatric does.

"The scientific answer is that the embryo is a human being from the time of fertilization because of its human chromosomal constitution. The zygote is the beginning of a developing human."

Keith L. Moore, T.V.N. Persaud, Mark G. Torchia, Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology, 8th edition. Philadelphia, PA: Saunders, 2013. p.327



Arbitrary.

So my hair is also a human?

 

[Victorian Gray]

So should we start charging women that have multiple miscarriages with manslaughter?

In the US

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/25/miscarriage-murder-roevwade-personhood

Latin American example

https://www.theguardian.com/global-...-premature-birth-miscarriage-attempted-murder

 

[shortylickens]

Barry Goldwater warned what would happen if the religious zealots took over the GOP. And he was totally right!

 

[Brainonska511]

Misleading thread title. The conservative position is pro-birth. Once someone is born, they don't give a shit about you.

 

[Maxima1]

 

[sdifox]

Or perhaps we actually thought that killing innocent human beings was wrong then as now.

Them foreign people ain't humans.