How did American citizens manage to put up with WWII?

[PingSpike]

Saw an exchange between Whoozyerdaddy and Zebo in the Pakistan thread, where Zebo said we're due for another war, to which Whoozyerdaddy replied that Americans have too short an attention span for a protracted war to be feasible.

What was different about WWII?

Was it the fact that so much was at stake, or that it was deadly serious? That seems dubious to me. We'd already been through WWI, which was a mess. On the other hand, since WWII we haven't been in a conflict in which we might ultimately have been fighting for our very lives. I suppose if Hitler had conquered all of Europe, he would've eventually come for us. I read that the Nazi's were researching transatlantic bombers.

Was there less information available, such as daily troop casualties, to cause daily reductions in citizen support? Without the internet and prevalent media access, I'd imagine it'd be very difficult to organize large protests against a war.

It's a sad fact that prosperity breeds complacency, and that only tragedy will shake us from it.

Whatta you guys think.

Our current 'wars' are basically dubiously defined policing operations or have ridiculously ambiguous or impossible goals. WWII was pretty damn clear.

 

[wuliheron]

No, I'm not talking about scorched earth. What I mean is that we didn't commit our full strength (barring nuclear weapons and any other means that would indiscriminately inflict civilian casualties) to the effort. The surge that Bush enacted should never have been necessary.

So what else is new. Half the torpedoes in WW II didn't explode and the Northern generals completely screwed up the first 2 years of the civil war. To this day people still debate the damn Napoleonic wars. Everybody's a damn backseat driver and everybody has the perfect advice after the fact, but they still don't always agree even then.

 

[DirkGently1]

What short memories some people have. America didn't give a damn about WWII until Japan attacked, and even then it was only because Germany declared war on America, (after America declared war with Japan), that America decided to get involved.

Of course now it's gone to the other extreme. These days nobody can stop America going to war! It's like an addiction for you guys

 

[infoiltrator]

The Cold War was every bit as much a war as WWII, complete with doomsday scenerios. There were actions and diplomacy at the edge and over.
Both sides depended on a dedicated home front. Alot of craziness of the last 65 years is compromises to settle home front issues.
Change is hateful to most people, many people want to return to a better past.
I remember civil defense drills concerning nuclear attack.
I know that Germans, Italians, and Japanese were probably a lot more prayerful than the USA. Churches and Chritians survived in the Soviet Union and China.
Under FDR Vice President Wallace was a Stalinist if not a Communist.
Eisenhower, after being a theater commander gutted the army. Desegragation get its impetus from the manpower shotages of WWII.
God weeps at the inequity of man and all oppression in the name of god.
Ramble scramble there are no perfect times or perfect men.

 

[OutHouse]

Lets see...

1. Blatant propaganda taken for fact.
2. Less educated populace.
3. Complient news media, fewer sources
4. Perfectly baked bad guy
5. And eventually, actual agression versus the homeland.


Yep, that will do it.

Less educated? I totally disagree with that. What is your baseline to make such a statement?

 

[K1052]

What short memories some people have. America didn't give a damn about WWII until Japan attacked, and even then it was only because Germany declared war on America, (after America declared war with Japan), that America decided to get involved.

The population at large didn't care or was isolationist but the leadership knew what what was at stake long before Pearl Harbor. If the rest of the world fell under the influence and control of the Axis powers the US would have ended up at a massive disadvantage in every conceivable way for an indefinite period of time. That's why FDR did everything possible to help England hold out against the Germans prior to the US entry into the war.

FDR effectively backed Japan into a corner over a couple years which culminated in the strike on Pearl. Some people consider that a justifiable reason for Japanese aggression against us but I don't see how we should have been compelled to continue something increasingly contrary to our national interest (providing steel and oil to the Japanese conquest machine).

 

[BeauJangles]

Our current 'wars' are basically dubiously defined policing operations or have ridiculously ambiguous or impossible goals. WWII was pretty damn clear.

I think that the Afghan war actually has a very clear goal -- to disrupt Al Queda and other terrorist networks. In that respect, it has succeeded tremendously. What it lacks is any clear exit plan or how to translate the success we've had on the ground against extremists into a codified set of laws that can prevent a backslide the minute we leave.

History tends to make us forget that World War II wasn't nearly as black and white as we like to remember. While the Allies ostensibly wanted to "defeat" the Japanese and the Germans, they deeply disagreed on what defeat meant, something that was exemplified during the Casablanca Conference when FDR shocked everyone by demanding "unconditional surrender."

On top that ambiguity, the United States and Russia both recognized that they would be the two strongest nations left standing and, with opposing political and economic ideologies, they were gearing up for some sort of conflict. That realization impacted both US and Russian strategy in the later stages of the war.

 

[OutHouse]

What short memories some people have. America didn't give a damn about WWII until Japan attacked, and even then it was only because Germany declared war on America, (after America declared war with Japan), that America decided to get involved.

Of course now it's gone to the other extreme. These days nobody can stop America going to war! It's like an addiction for you guys

This I agree with. Our nation is the most war mongering country on earth. Im totally sick of it. Bring our troops home now.

 

[K1052]

On top that ambiguity, the United States and Russia both recognized that they would be the two strongest nations left standing and, with opposing political and economic ideologies, they were gearing up for some sort of conflict. That realization impacted both US and Russian strategy in the later stages of the war.

It took many in the US government longer to wake up to that reality than it should have, especially with suspicious Churchill pressing hard to make sure the Soviets lived up to their end of the deal regarding central and eastern Europe.

Had we actually known Soviet intentions we would have crossed the Elbe and met the Russians as far east as possible. The last of the German generals conducting the defense were fighting a delaying action against the Russians to that very end hoping the Americans would come up behind through the now lightly defended western front.

 

[Vette73]

What short memories some people have. America didn't give a damn about WWII until Japan attacked, and even then it was only because Germany declared war on America, (after America declared war with Japan), that America decided to get involved.

Of course now it's gone to the other extreme. These days nobody can stop America going to war! It's like an addiction for you guys

Yep. A lot of polls showed a large percent of americans said jews were to blame for what was happening to them in Germany. America did not give a rats ass about jews or others, only themselves.

As the old saying goes, history is written by those that win the war.

 

[irishScott]

Well part of it was the fact that our existence as a Nation was threatened, and American territory conquered in the Pacific. Remember Japan wiped out a good chunk of our Navy with minimal casualties. Nowadays there simply isn't a nation with that sort of firepower short of nuclear war.

As for Germany, they declared war on us after we declared it on Japan, and started sinking our ships.

Look at less popular cases like Vietnam and modern Iraq/Afghanistan, those were all interventionist operations with no such overt threat to the American people.

 

[Atreus21]

So what else is new. Half the torpedoes in WW II didn't explode and the Northern generals completely screwed up the first 2 years of the civil war. To this day people still debate the damn Napoleonic wars. Everybody's a damn backseat driver and everybody has the perfect advice after the fact, but they still don't always agree even then.

Agreed there.

 

[mizzou]

The thread title sounds like an essay question for a grade school social studies quiz

 

[Atreus21]

This I agree with. Our nation is the most war mongering country on earth. Im totally sick of it. Bring our troops home now.

Don't think I agree. I wouldn't call police actions warmongering.

If we want to remain a superpower, I think that means we have to be visible around the world. That means asserting our influence. A good way to regress is to back down from that, and let a less benevolent nation like China pick up the reigns.

I'm not going to argue that it's necessarily moral for us to police the world. But I will argue that it's necessary.

 

[Atreus21]

The thread title sounds like an essay question for a grade school social studies quiz

Shrug. I find it interesting all the same.

 

[mizzou]

Shrug. I find it interesting all the same.

Oops, meant no offense to the product it delivers, just that ita a really easy question most should agree on when answered

 

[soulcougher73]

I would say it was patriotism. People came together as a nation for a cause because they were all Americans. Nowadays everyone wants to be labeled differently. African-American, Mexican-American etc. People came to this country to be a part of it because it had what they wanted. They didnt come here to change it as so many do today.

I think instead of "United we Stand" it is more accuretly "Divided we Stand".

 

[Kadarin]

They prayed alot, which now GOD has been removed from everything.

Yes, this is the EXACT reason why things are different now. Forget sociological and geopolitical differences, forget technological advances, it's all because JESUS has been removed from the world. Because JESUS fucking nuked the Japanese and defeated the Nazi war machine.

Right.

 

[CanOWorms]

I would say it was patriotism. People came together as a nation for a cause because they were all Americans. Nowadays everyone wants to be labeled differently. African-American, Mexican-American etc. People came to this country to be a part of it because it had what they wanted. They didnt come here to change it as so many do today.

I think instead of "United we Stand" it is more accuretly "Divided we Stand".

Patriotism then was linked to white supremacy. People in WW2 came together because they felt like white supremacy was under attack. Hitler had a very narrow view of white supremacy (excluding many), and thus he was a threat and the Japanese were not white and thus a threat. This concept of white supremacy also led to the unjust imprisonment of Japanese-Americans in concentration camps. African-Americans were also segregated in society and the military. Nowadays you will need another motivation than the supposed pride of the collective white race.

Availability of information is also important. If modern American culture was transported to WW2, there is no way we would have entered on the side of the Allies, particularly because of the British. They were psychos and massacred hundreds of millions of people around the world.

 

[spacejamz]

as stated many times here, it is because of the 'pussification of America' trend that continues to grow...

 

[ShawnD1]

If anything, modern Americans support war more than ever. WW1 and WW2 went on for several years before USA joined. Staying neutral was the idea of the day.
If something like that happened today, nobody would say that staying neutral is a good idea. Can you imagine a situation where there was total war between Europe and China and USA would sit back and do nothing? It would never happen today, but that basically is what happened in the past. Total war between European countries, total war between Japan and China, total war on a global scale, and USA remained neutral. People were way more relaxed back then, less eager to get into a sticky mess.

 

[Anarchist420]

The damn planet was at stake.

I disagree. Japan and Germany were no threat to America.

 

[ShawnD1]

I disagree. Japan and Germany were no threat to America.

So after Germany taking all of Europe and Japan taking all of Asia, they would just stop right there and say enough is enough. Got it.

 

[Kadarin]

So after Germany taking all of Europe and Japan taking all of Asia, they would just stop right there and say enough is enough. Got it.

There would have been "peace in our time"...

 

[spacejamz]

I disagree. Japan and Germany were no threat to America.

The servicemen on the Reuben James and in Pearl Harbor on the morning of Dec 7, 1941 will disagree with you.