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How Democrats can win in '06 and beyond

glenn1

Lifer
Okay guys, let's face it, your current strategy isn't working. This isn't about right or wrong, what programs you support vs what the republicans want to eliminate (or vice versa), or any of that tangential nonsense. Fair or unfair, there are three basic points on which your side continues to come up short in swing voters' opinions when they are comparing you to your competition - national defense, taxes, and spending. The problem is not that your message needs fine tuning, you need a new message... first of all to completely turn around the voters' perceptions of you and secondly to slow down the Republicans and put them on the defensive against your ideas. You need a short, simple, and easily understandable platform that both identifies what your side stands for and answers some of the concerns that the voters have about your party.

So here's how you break through the perception gap, and here's your slogan.

"We won't raise taxes and will help our troops win the war, but our side will actually pay for it."

Yes, that means take tax raises off the table. You heard that right, state upfront that you think Americans should keep more of their own money and you won't revoke Bush's tax cuts, but you'll actually keep spending in line so that the tax cuts are paid for. The problem with your criticizing Bush deficits isn't that people don't care, but they don't trust you to not tax-n-spend your way out of it (or for that matter, not to dig the hole deeper). Kerry (and Mondale before him) showed that pledging to raise taxes is a losing proposition, so accept that as a political reality that you can't take on and win, and instead turn the focus back on the other end. Of course this means that you'll have to actually do some soul-searching and name some programs that you'd cut, but I'm sure that's something you can accomplish if you put your minds to it.

You can also slipstream this same slogan into something which will win on national defense. Don't act like you're upset about Saddam not being there or us spending $200B in Iraq. First of all, neither of those positions help you and they're both fait accompli anyway. Again, turn the message back onto paying for it. "We'll help our troops win by making sure we have the money back home to pay for accomplishing the victory" or words to that effect.
 
"We won't raise taxes and will help our troops win the war, but our side will actually pay for it."

Give me some fiscal discipline on either side and I'll strongly consider voting for that side.
 
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.
 
Originally posted by: Kibbo
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.

Why is that a moderate republican? You had JK up on stage saluting and talking about new divisions and so forth?
 
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.

They don't have to maintain or increase any particular function of the government (defense or otherwise). The advantage of this plan is the Democrats will be the ones driving the debate on what's important and worthy of funding and what's not. And when you set the terms of the debate they get to do it on terms that are consistent with their core values rather than having to do a rearguard defense against what the Republicans are advocating.

I don't think the voters particularly care within reason about what the numbers would be for any one department or another, social spending vs defense vs any other sector, they see federal spending as an integrated whole. The important thing for Democrats is that (a) they break the pattern of being seen as for tax increases as their first resort and instinct for any perceived problem, and more importantly (b) that they break the voters' perception that they do not have a concept on what the proper ultimate boundaries of government are, that they support government for government's sake without limit without any corresponding vision of what the government should or should not be doing.
 
But what happens when you win and need to raise taxes to balance the budget? I really don't think we need both parties diluding the people into thinking that you can have low taxes and high spending at the same time. Republicans doing that is enough.
Also, in most polls I see, tax issues are pretty low on American people's agenda, way behind defense, education, healthcare, etc.
I don't even know how much I am paying in taxes, and the only time I care is when I am filing them. It's on direct deposit, and I have enough money in the account for all my spending, and plenty left over for investments, which is all I really care about. I really don't hear people talking about their taxes except around filing time. And most of the people I know pay the highest possible combined rates because they are mostly single renters just under the SS cap, so they pay up on Income taxes and payroll taxes with no deductions.
What democrats need to do is tell the American people they will balance the budget and return USA on sound fiscal footing and restrict spending growth.
 
The Dems need to stop being so cynical, pessimistic, sarcastic, condensending, and elitist... reach out to Middle America with a positive, pro-America plan without sacrificing their basic principles.

It'll never happen (not anytime soon anyway)
 
How bout this:

Democrats focus on what beliefs they accually monopilize such as health care. The real reason Kerry lost is because people didnt know what he stood for. Even though traditionally democrats are for the health care and social issues he did not seem to stress them in my opinion. He instead opted for the anti-bush slogans instead of focusing on what the massive miniories might want.

In my opinion democrats have forsaken their minority vote and it is only a matter of time till they realize that the democrats have no incentive to help them. If they help them and improve their socail status, then they may move to the more wealthy (in general) political party based on keeping their tax money.

Basically, democrats should stress helping the common man instead of smear campaigns, i think it might be a bit more effective.
 
While the message is absolutely important, I think the dems need to run a decent candidate. Face it, the '04 election was more a condemnation of Kerry as a candidate than anything else. He had too much political and personal baggage and the GOP stomped all over him for it. Same thing will happen in '08 if they run someone divisive like Hillary. The next 4 years for the Bush administration is all about setting the GOP up for continued success. That means grabbing as many issues as they can and 'owning' them. I don't see the Democrats putting forth their ideas very successfully -- assuming their ideas are any different than the GOP to begin with.
 
Yeah, it's ironic that Republicans have a cynical, condescending, and elitist agenda (thinktanks sending out memos on how to manipulate americans into supporting their agendas, etc), but come off as being for middle class, while Democrats have largely pro middle class agenda, and come off as elitist. They got to work on their presentation, and soften some edges.
 
So, uhh, what you're saying is that Dems should tell the same lies as the Repubs? That we can borrow our way out of debt, and that deficits don't matter? That we can cut 1/3 of non-SS federal spending to balance the budget, without cutting the military, right? And that nobody will get hurt, either...

Dream On....
 
But what happens when you win and need to raise taxes to balance the budget? I really don't think we need both parties diluding the people into thinking that you can have low taxes and high spending at the same time. Republicans doing that is enough.

I didn't say you could never raise taxes, no one expects you to wave a magic wand and make deficit spending go away forever. But that's not the point, you need to do something to make the voters believe you actually have it in you to do something other than grow the government. As far as taxes, you simply need to break the perception that raising them is your first instinct. And the secondly, equally-as-important part of my plan is that your side actually DOES propose spending cuts. It doesn't matter what you propose cutting, just so long as the budget numbers go down instead of up.

That's the whole purpose of my proposal, to end the perception that your party is for raising taxes and spending. Just the idea that you might propose cutting spending AT ALL would be enough to get the voters' attention to the rest of what you're saying, if you went through with it and actually did it you'd reap political rewards far above the pain of the cuts.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Kibbo
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.

Why is that a moderate republican? You had JK up on stage saluting and talking about new divisions and so forth?

John Keryy is a moderate conservative.

and yes i am serious.
 
the democrats need to stop trying to out republican the republicans. Why would you vote for the imposter when you can get the real thing.

Originally posted by: SuperTool
Yeah, it's ironic that Republicans have a cynical, condescending, and elitist agenda (thinktanks sending out memos on how to manipulate americans into supporting their agendas, etc), but come off as being for middle class, while Democrats have largely pro middle class agenda, and come off as elitist. They got to work on their presentation, and soften some edges.

 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Kibbo
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.

Why is that a moderate republican? You had JK up on stage saluting and talking about new divisions and so forth?

John Keryy is a moderate conservative.

and yes i am serious.

And you are right:
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/uselection.php
 
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Engineer
"We won't raise taxes and will help our troops win the war, but our side will actually pay for it."

Give me some fiscal discipline on either side and I'll strongly consider voting for that side.

Exactly.


Yes, the democrats badmouth the overspending that happens in DC, but they vote for the same pork with glee.
 
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Kibbo
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.

Why is that a moderate republican? You had JK up on stage saluting and talking about new divisions and so forth?

John Keryy is a moderate conservative.

and yes i am serious.

I'm sure the far-left views him as that. :laugh:

CsG
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Yes, the democrats badmouth the overspending that happens in DC, but they vote for the same pork with glee.
Yeah, but at least the democrats don't try and portray themselves as fiscally responsible. At least not until recently. Um, I mean not until the Republicans gave new meaning to "borrow and spend." I want some fiscal sanity in the worst way -- I just don't think Americans at large pay much attention to the problem.
 
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Originally posted by: Engineer
"We won't raise taxes and will help our troops win the war, but our side will actually pay for it."

Give me some fiscal discipline on either side and I'll strongly consider voting for that side.

Exactly.


Yes, the democrats badmouth the overspending that happens in DC, but they vote for the same pork with glee.


Maybe the ones in DC, but not this guy. Cut all the pork.

Oh, and I was listening to a *choke* conservative *choke* radio show on Saturday and it was mentioned that if you make everyone pay for the services (i.e. more of a flat tax), then the spending would come down dramatically. I thought of you on that one. 😉
 
Originally posted by: glenn1
Okay guys, let's face it, your current strategy isn't working. This isn't about right or wrong, what programs you support vs what the republicans want to eliminate (or vice versa), or any of that tangential nonsense. Fair or unfair, there are three basic points on which your side continues to come up short in swing voters' opinions when they are comparing you to your competition - national defense, taxes, and spending. The problem is not that your message needs fine tuning, you need a new message... first of all to completely turn around the voters' perceptions of you and secondly to slow down the Republicans and put them on the defensive against your ideas. You need a short, simple, and easily understandable platform that both identifies what your side stands for and answers some of the concerns that the voters have about your party.

So here's how you break through the perception gap, and here's your slogan.

"We won't raise taxes and will help our troops win the war, but our side will actually pay for it."

Yes, that means take tax raises off the table. You heard that right, state upfront that you think Americans should keep more of their own money and you won't revoke Bush's tax cuts, but you'll actually keep spending in line so that the tax cuts are paid for. The problem with your criticizing Bush deficits isn't that people don't care, but they don't trust you to not tax-n-spend your way out of it (or for that matter, not to dig the hole deeper). Kerry (and Mondale before him) showed that pledging to raise taxes is a losing proposition, so accept that as a political reality that you can't take on and win, and instead turn the focus back on the other end. Of course this means that you'll have to actually do some soul-searching and name some programs that you'd cut, but I'm sure that's something you can accomplish if you put your minds to it.

You can also slipstream this same slogan into something which will win on national defense. Don't act like you're upset about Saddam not being there or us spending $200B in Iraq. First of all, neither of those positions help you and they're both fait accompli anyway. Again, turn the message back onto paying for it. "We'll help our troops win by making sure we have the money back home to pay for accomplishing the victory" or words to that effect.

The probelm with this is that the American voter just doesn't trust the Democrats to do anything they swear to do. Been down that road too many times before. The first imagine that pops into the voters mind is Clinton shaking his finger and saying "I didn't have sex with that woman". That image will haunt the Democratic party for years to come.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
But what happens when you win and need to raise taxes to balance the budget? I really don't think we need both parties diluding the people into thinking that you can have low taxes and high spending at the same time. Republicans doing that is enough.
Also, in most polls I see, tax issues are pretty low on American people's agenda, way behind defense, education, healthcare, etc.
I don't even know how much I am paying in taxes, and the only time I care is when I am filing them. It's on direct deposit, and I have enough money in the account for all my spending, and plenty left over for investments, which is all I really care about. I really don't hear people talking about their taxes except around filing time. And most of the people I know pay the highest possible combined rates because they are mostly single renters just under the SS cap, so they pay up on Income taxes and payroll taxes with no deductions.
What democrats need to do is tell the American people they will balance the budget and return USA on sound fiscal footing and restrict spending growth.

Repeat after me, raising taxes does not balance the budget. International trade, sensible government management, encouraging domestic production, these things balance budgets. Decriminalization of our tax systems would be a move in the right direction if you want to start to balance the budget with taxes. Making less stuff criminal so that our prison expenses could drop would make a difference even if it would be small. Decriminalization of drugs would help a lot for the same reasons. Spend money to put people in prisons for good reasons like rape, robbery, and murder, etc. not frivolous ones.
 
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: Kibbo
So, you want them to essentially say that the Democratic party will maintain or increase military spending while cutting back on redistribution? That sounds like a moderate Republican.

It might work electorally, but it is completely against the core Democratic values.

Why is that a moderate republican? You had JK up on stage saluting and talking about new divisions and so forth?

John Keryy is a moderate conservative.

and yes i am serious.

I'm sure the far-left views him as that. :laugh:

CsG

Labels are all about degree, not absolutes. Bush is NOT a moderate in any sense of the word, and I say that as someone who considers himself a moderate conservative in EVERY sense of the word. Kerry isn't either, but he's a hell of a lot closer than the Republicans seem to be at the moment.

Again, election stats showed the majority of "moderates" voting for Kerry. That tells you something.
 
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: SuperTool
But what happens when you win and need to raise taxes to balance the budget? I really don't think we need both parties diluding the people into thinking that you can have low taxes and high spending at the same time. Republicans doing that is enough.
Also, in most polls I see, tax issues are pretty low on American people's agenda, way behind defense, education, healthcare, etc.
I don't even know how much I am paying in taxes, and the only time I care is when I am filing them. It's on direct deposit, and I have enough money in the account for all my spending, and plenty left over for investments, which is all I really care about. I really don't hear people talking about their taxes except around filing time. And most of the people I know pay the highest possible combined rates because they are mostly single renters just under the SS cap, so they pay up on Income taxes and payroll taxes with no deductions.
What democrats need to do is tell the American people they will balance the budget and return USA on sound fiscal footing and restrict spending growth.

Repeat after me, raising taxes does not balance the budget. International trade, sensible government management, encouraging domestic production, these things balance budgets.
That's exactly the delusion I don't want my party perpetuating.
Decriminalization of our tax systems would be a move in the right direction if you want to start to balance the budget with taxes. Making less stuff criminal so that our prison expenses could drop would make a difference even if it would be small. Decriminalization of drugs would help a lot for the same reasons. Spend money to put people in prisons for good reasons like rape, robbery, and murder, etc. not frivolous ones.

Yeah, we are spending too much money on prisons. But not enough to balance the budget.
 
Originally posted by: SuperTool
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: SuperTool
But what happens when you win and need to raise taxes to balance the budget? I really don't think we need both parties diluding the people into thinking that you can have low taxes and high spending at the same time. Republicans doing that is enough.
Also, in most polls I see, tax issues are pretty low on American people's agenda, way behind defense, education, healthcare, etc.
I don't even know how much I am paying in taxes, and the only time I care is when I am filing them. It's on direct deposit, and I have enough money in the account for all my spending, and plenty left over for investments, which is all I really care about. I really don't hear people talking about their taxes except around filing time. And most of the people I know pay the highest possible combined rates because they are mostly single renters just under the SS cap, so they pay up on Income taxes and payroll taxes with no deductions.
What democrats need to do is tell the American people they will balance the budget and return USA on sound fiscal footing and restrict spending growth.

Repeat after me, raising taxes does not balance the budget. International trade, sensible government management, encouraging domestic production, these things balance budgets.
That's exactly the delusion I don't want my party perpetuating.
Decriminalization of our tax systems would be a move in the right direction if you want to start to balance the budget with taxes. Making less stuff criminal so that our prison expenses could drop would make a difference even if it would be small. Decriminalization of drugs would help a lot for the same reasons. Spend money to put people in prisons for good reasons like rape, robbery, and murder, etc. not frivolous ones.

Yeah, we are spending too much money on prisons. But not enough to balance the budget.

Excuse me! You spend money to balance the budget? I knew I was doing something wrong.

 
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