How dare these activist judges mess with Good Christians like this

[SilthDraeth]

This has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with being a raving lunatic.

Same thing as that vegan couple that wouldn't breast feed their baby, because "OMG their kid can't have mother's milk as that would be an animal product" and fed their kid apple juice only, thus starving it to death.

Religion doesn't tell people to not seek medical aid, otherwise there would be no Christians left.

 

[SilthDraeth]

Originally posted by: FaaR
Religion is an interesting concept.

I once saw a movie clip from a midevial monastery in Italy, famous for its chapel which had beautiful ceiling frescoes, during an earthquake. The ceiling of the chapel collapsed and fell on some monks, killing around seven of them. It was quite a brutal sight actually, unlike a movie when people get struck by rubble, you knew those people that disappeared under smoke and debris DIED for real, right there on the screen.

So I have to wonder how religious people justify events like that. Why would any god deliberately drop his own house of worship on his followers, where's the logic in that?

It would have to be a pretty mean-spirited god to do such a thing wouldn't you say... Or an insane one.

..Or one could conclude, that there is no logic, and no god, and instead just random events that occur naturally and spontaneously.

I know which one I'd rather choose.

I was visited by a priest in school, probably over a quarter century ago now. He said he knew prayer worked because he'd lost his wallet one day, he'd prayed over it, and then recovered his wallet. I can't remember if he found it himself or if someone else did it for him.

My take on the matter of prayer is, you can't be certain prayer works unless your lost wallet appears in a puff of smoke and falls to the ground right in front of you. ...Coz, it's possible to find lost items even without praying about it, and often lost (or rather, stolen) things remain stolen no matter how much you pray about it.

To respond to the first:

Why would any scientist inject chemicals into rodents, and then watch what happens to them? Or subject them to stress etc?

Them scientist must be mean spirited or insane.
Granted that isn't a direct comparison, and I am all about science, and medicine. The problem here in this story has less to do with faith, than it does the tendency for some people to put blinders on to opposing viewpoints.

It happens on all sides, and has nothing to do with Christianity. Though a lot of it does have to do with Churches. Churches, just like any other organization indoctrinate and attempt to control people. They are institutions set up to take advantage of people's faith.

 

[r31ncarnat3d]

Originally posted by: dahunan

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Here's an idea. Let's sake some parents who are wracked with grief over their daughters death and throw them in jail just to be sure they learned their lesson. But some of you say 6 months isn't enough, either fry them or put them there for life.

She is in heaven now with the god that took her.. that would be their belief.. shit .. they aren't grieving.. it was gods will

So you're saying when we get sick, instead of trying to get better through medicine we should do everything possible to die so we can go to heaven?

 

[DealMonkey]

Worst parents ever.

 

[Ausm]

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
This has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with being a raving lunatic.

I was under the impression that most holyrollers were raving lunatics.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
This has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with being a raving lunatic.

I was under the impression that most holyrollers were raving lunatics.

Most blacks are thieves.

 

[soulcougher73]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Why allow them to continue their insanity and pollute the world with their insane beliefs that MURDERED THEIR DAUGHTER...

PUT THESE fuckers in NUTHOUSE ASAP... WTF..

Parents in prayer death get 6 months in jail
http://www.google.com/hostedne...WjkJIllXXjMoQD9B5UTB80
By ROBERT IMRIE (AP) ? 8 hours ago

WAUSAU, Wis. ? A central Wisconsin couple who prayed rather than seek medical care for their 11-year-old dying daughter were sentenced Tuesday to six months in jail and 10 years probation in the girl's death.

Dale and Leilani Neumann could have received up to 25 years in prison for the March 2008 death of Madeline Neumann, who died of an undiagnosed but treatable form of diabetes. They were convicted of second-degree reckless homicide in separate trials earlier this year.

In sentencing the couple, Marathon County Circuit Court Judge Vincent Howard said the Neumanns were "very good people, raising their family who made a bad decision, a reckless decision."

"God probably works through other people," Howard told the parents, "some of them doctors."

The case was believed to be the first of its kind in Wisconsin involving faith healing in which someone died and another person was charged with a homicide.

Prosecutors contended the Neumanns recklessly killed their youngest of four children by ignoring obvious symptoms of severe illness as she became too weak to speak, eat, drink or walk. They said the couple had a legal duty to take their daughter to a doctor but relied totally on prayer for healing. The girl, known as Kara, died on the floor of the family's rural Weston home as people surrounded her and prayed. Someone finally called 911 after she stopped breathing.

"We are here today because to some, you made Kara a martyr to your faith," Howard told the parents.

In testimony at trial and in videotaped interviews with police, the parents said they believe healing comes from God and that they never expected their daughter to die.

During the sentencing hearing, Leilani Neumann, 41, told the judge her family is loving and forgiving and has wrongly been portrayed as religious zealots.

"I do not regret trusting truly in the Lord for my daughter's health," she said. "Did we know she had a fatal illness? No. Did we act to the best of our knowledge? Yes."

Bet that messed with their belief in God.

Idiots.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: FaaR
Religion is an interesting concept.

I once saw a movie clip from a midevial monastery in Italy, famous for its chapel which had beautiful ceiling frescoes, during an earthquake. The ceiling of the chapel collapsed and fell on some monks, killing around seven of them. It was quite a brutal sight actually, unlike a movie when people get struck by rubble, you knew those people that disappeared under smoke and debris DIED for real, right there on the screen.

So I have to wonder how religious people justify events like that. Why would any god deliberately drop his own house of worship on his followers, where's the logic in that?

It would have to be a pretty mean-spirited god to do such a thing wouldn't you say... Or an insane one.

..Or one could conclude, that there is no logic, and no god, and instead just random events that occur naturally and spontaneously.

I know which one I'd rather choose.

I was visited by a priest in school, probably over a quarter century ago now. He said he knew prayer worked because he'd lost his wallet one day, he'd prayed over it, and then recovered his wallet. I can't remember if he found it himself or if someone else did it for him.

My take on the matter of prayer is, you can't be certain prayer works unless your lost wallet appears in a puff of smoke and falls to the ground right in front of you. ...Coz, it's possible to find lost items even without praying about it, and often lost (or rather, stolen) things remain stolen no matter how much you pray about it.

Well it can appear puff like that but you have to pray right. Two days ago I lost my keys. I went up to my Mom's house to take out the garbage for her, I went to the store, and I went to buy gas and when I got home, no house keys. So I called my Mon and asked her to check the door and she did and the ground I went over but nothing. Nothing at the store and nothing at the gas station, so I started to cry. Hey, fuck you. I'm not sick with the macho thingi like you are. So anyway, as I was saying, I started to cry, one because I was fucking angry about where the hell my keys went, and two, because the Andean music I was listening to is filled with such immense joy that it brings up enormous pain every time I listen to it and give permission to feel it deeply. And poof, in the deep concentration of listening and feeling, I remembered like bamb, I threw a McDonald's bag and cup away in the garbage before I left and I heard a loud clunk. I knew just like that, in that state of prayer, what happened to my keys. I threw them in the garbage and sure enough that was where they were. Thinking hadn't worked, but by feeling I remembered what I felt, a fleeting wonderment at what had made that clunk sound. How I managed to throw my keys away with a bag is another story. I think I must have been testing myself to see how badly I hate myself for being so incredibly stupid.

I was, of course, really pissed at myself, but not nearly as pissed as I was at all the idiot drivers and stop lights that were red that got in the way of my search.

 

[dainthomas]

It would be interesting to go to one of those crackball churches and see how many people wear glasses.

 

[Mean MrMustard]

I see this as cultural/religious darwinism.

Darwin Award candidate anybody?

Too bad it wasn't one of the parents that got sick instead.

 

[Patranus]

While I do not agree with the families decision, it is interesting to see people who cast religion aside and favor abortion account for tens of millions of deaths each year yet the liberals cheer them instead of shun them.

So where do you draw the line? Lack of morals leading to the death of a child Vs. believing too much in their morals leading to the death of a child.

In the mind of a liberal, why is one situation not only acceptable but cheered yet in the other they should be condemned because it was based on religion?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Patranus
While I do not agree with the families decision, it is interesting to see people who cast religion aside and favor abortion account for tens of millions of deaths each year yet the liberals cheer them instead of shun them.

So where do you draw the line? Lack of morals leading to the death of a child Vs. believing too much in their morals leading to the death of a child.

In the mind of a liberal, why is one situation not only acceptable but cheered yet in the other they should be condemned because it was based on religion?

Like much of what you comment on, this isn't about liberals, this is about religious whackos killing their kid.

 

[FaaR]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Bigotry? How is saying that people treat Christians and Muslims different = Bigotry?

The bigotry bit comes from you setting up a prejudiced strawman. Too bad you're too biased to realize that yourself.

 

[Infohawk]

I don't know maybe we should let evolution take its course.

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: FaaR

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
Bigotry? How is saying that people treat Christians and Muslims different = Bigotry?

The bigotry bit comes from you setting up a prejudiced strawman. Too bad you're too biased to realize that yourself.

Yeah, strawman....

 

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: Patranus
While I do not agree with the families decision, it is interesting to see people who cast religion aside and favor abortion account for tens of millions of deaths each year yet the liberals cheer them instead of shun them.

So where do you draw the line? Lack of morals leading to the death of a child Vs. believing too much in their morals leading to the death of a child.

In the mind of a liberal, why is one situation not only acceptable but cheered yet in the other they should be condemned because it was based on religion?

Like much of what you comment on, this isn't about liberals, this is about religious whackos killing their kid.

So answer the question and replace religious with liberal. Yet, you can not... that is the point.

 

[Patranus]

Originally posted by: Zstream
So answer the question and replace religious with liberal. Yet, you can not... that is the point.

That is exactly what people do, they replace religion with liberalism but since there is no moral base in liberalism, you end up with situation with high school students murdering honor students with rail road ties or Hollywood producers drugging a 13 year old and then raping them while they scream for them to stop, skip out of the country and then have the other crazy liberals defend him when he is finally brought to justice.

 

[0marTheZealot]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Zstream
So answer the question and replace religious with liberal. Yet, you can not... that is the point.

That is exactly what people do, they replace religion with liberalism but since there is no moral base in liberalism, you end up with situation with high school students murdering honor students with rail road ties or Hollywood producers drugging a 13 year old and then raping them while they scream for them to stop, skip out of the country and then have the other crazy liberals defend him when he is finally brought to justice.

Your lack of logical thinking is appalling.

 

[ebaycj]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
This has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with being a raving lunatic.

I was under the impression that most holyrollers were raving lunatics.

Most blacks are thieves.

Your point ?

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Patranus

Originally posted by: Zstream
So answer the question and replace religious with liberal. Yet, you can not... that is the point.

That is exactly what people do, they replace religion with liberalism but since there is no moral base in liberalism, you end up with situation with high school students murdering honor students with rail road ties or Hollywood producers drugging a 13 year old and then raping them while they scream for them to stop, skip out of the country and then have the other crazy liberals defend him when he is finally brought to justice.

So what leads Republicans to side with people who shoot doctors?

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: dahunan
Why allow them to continue their insanity and pollute the world with their insane beliefs that MURDERED THEIR DAUGHTER...

I guess her mother should have just had an abortion. Same outcome, but they wouldn't have gone to jail.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
While I don't necessarily disagree with the posts here.. it does amaze me that the same people when faced with fanatical Muslims don't show the same level of anger. Don't give your daughter medical care and you are Christian = "LET THEM FRY". Kill American Soldiers = "Its America's fault for trying to force our values on them."

A better comparison would have been to a religion that will stone a girl to death who has been suspected of having sex or a religion that will hang male minors found having gay sex. Of course, when those issues are brought up some of the very same people in here gleefully bashing Christians will rush in with claims that it's not representative of Islam, it's not representative of Muslims, it's a very small minority that practice that, blah, blah, blah. Which is really no different from this at all. All of those same excuses apply in this case.

Personally, I find it ALL to be despicable. But at least threads like this expose the blatant religious biases of certain members of P&N, though it's not as if those biases weren't readily apparent already.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: ebaycj

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: Ausm

Originally posted by: SilthDraeth
This has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with being a raving lunatic.

I was under the impression that most holyrollers were raving lunatics.

Most blacks are thieves.

Your point ?

All but the dense get the point.

 

[Red Irish]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
While I don't necessarily disagree with the posts here.. it does amaze me that the same people when faced with fanatical Muslims don't show the same level of anger. Don't give your daughter medical care and you are Christian = "LET THEM FRY". Kill American Soldiers = "Its America's fault for trying to force our values on them."

A better comparison would have been to a religion that will stone a girl to death who has been suspected of having sex or a religion that will hang male minors found having gay sex. Of course, when those issues are brought up some of the very same people in here gleefully bashing Christians will rush in with claims that it's not representative of Islam, it's not representative of Muslims, it's a very small minority that practice that, blah, blah, blah. Which is really no different from this at all. All of those same excuses apply in this case.

Personally, I find it ALL to be despicable. But at least threads like this expose the blatant religious biases of certain members of P&N, though it's not as if those biases weren't readily apparent already.

Rather than double standards or blatant religious bias I see a rather weak attempt to create controversy within this thread when none in fact exists, except perhaps in your small minds.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Fear No Evil
While I don't necessarily disagree with the posts here.. it does amaze me that the same people when faced with fanatical Muslims don't show the same level of anger. Don't give your daughter medical care and you are Christian = "LET THEM FRY". Kill American Soldiers = "Its America's fault for trying to force our values on them."

A better comparison would have been to a religion that will stone a girl to death who has been suspected of having sex or a religion that will hang male minors found having gay sex. Of course, when those issues are brought up some of the very same people in here gleefully bashing Christians will rush in with claims that it's not representative of Islam, it's not representative of Muslims, it's a very small minority that practice that, blah, blah, blah. Which is really no different from this at all. All of those same excuses apply in this case.

Personally, I find it ALL to be despicable. But at least threads like this expose the blatant religious biases of certain members of P&N, though it's not as if those biases weren't readily apparent already.

WTF are you talking about, as ridiculous as Christianity is Islam is much worse.