how could a liberal/progressive possibly support Barack Obama?

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

GWB signed just about every law that crossed his desk. Look where that's gotten us.
Maybe it's time to sign a bunch of laws passed by a Democratic Congress to reverse some of the damage?

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

Republican spending, while cutting taxes, is what has gotten this country into the current mess. Trillions in debt.
Somehow, other industrialized nations are able to have UHC, and yet they have a higher standard of living than the US and are happier people.
AFAIK, univeral healthcare does not prevent you from spending your own money for private medical care.
Maybe instead of launching wars against countries that didn't attack us, and nation building, we could spend some money helping people that live here in the US?

How can you possibly claim other nations are happier? Happiness is totally subjective and I would argue that hope and a bright outlook on the future leads to more happiness than anything else. America is still a land of opportunity because it's not like other nations where all freedoms are given to the state, such as healthcare.

Sure I could still get private care if I had enough money, but today I can get almost as good medical care making WELL under $100,000 as someone who makes $100,000 a year.

The democrats want to destroy the healthcare the working class enjoy today by flooding it with people who don't earn any healthcare beyond the ER, if that.

Speaking of taxes, there is a fine balance between "taxing too much" and "taxing too little" because despite tax cuts, money coming into the government did not decrease, it increased. The tax cuts represented POWER being given back to the people to use it as they will, and they ended up creating more revenue than the government would have otherwise gotten (arguably, but tax cuts have always led to revenue increases so I claim this point).

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

Imagine if it were culturally ingrained to slander blacks in the same way we slander liberals. Then all the attacks on Obama would be racial. The bias against liberals has been created by spending billions to imply to children growing up that liberals are bad over and over again so that Americans grow up as bigots, people who have an irrational bias against something.

Then with the bigotry in place, the hate of the self directed at some specific other, the task then becomes simple. You just link the opposition to the bigotry by calling him a liberal. That's all it takes and millions and millions of brainwashed imbeciles will vote against him.

:thumbsup:

 

[jpeyton]

Obama is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't on nearly every issue.

Better question:

How could a liberal/progressive possibly help McCain win?

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

GWB signed just about every law that crossed his desk. Look where that's gotten us.
Maybe it's time to sign a bunch of laws passed by a Democratic Congress to reverse some of the damage?

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

Republican spending, while cutting taxes, is what has gotten this country into the current mess. Trillions in debt.
Somehow, other industrialized nations are able to have UHC, and yet they have a higher standard of living than the US and are happier people.
AFAIK, univeral healthcare does not prevent you from spending your own money for private medical care.
Maybe instead of launching wars against countries that didn't attack us, and nation building, we could spend some money helping people that live here in the US?

How can you possibly claim other nations are happier? Happiness is totally subjective and I would argue that hope and a bright outlook on the future leads to more happiness than anything else. America is still a land of opportunity because it's not like other nations where all freedoms are given to the state, such as healthcare.

Sure I could still get private care if I had enough money, but today I can get almost as good medical care making WELL under $100,000 as someone who makes $100,000 a year.

The democrats want to destroy the healthcare the working class enjoy today by flooding it with people who don't earn any healthcare beyond the ER, if that.

Speaking of taxes, there is a fine balance between "taxing too much" and "taxing too little" because despite tax cuts, money coming into the government did not decrease, it increased. The tax cuts represented POWER being given back to the people to use it as they will, and they ended up creating more revenue than the government would have otherwise gotten (arguably, but tax cuts have always led to revenue increases so I claim this point).

Not true, tax cuts have reduced revenue coming in for years. The majority of the tax cuts went to the rich, it did give more POWER to RICH PEOPLE.

The Republicans have so wrecked the economy that rich people actually did better under Clinton.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

You realize our health care system is ranked one of the worst in the industrialized world, right? It's 'exceptional' all right, but not in that good sort of way.

You'd believe those reports too. We have people that come the world over to visit our hospitals, and it's not for the food or the brand of TP in the restrooms. If some report claims we have one of the worst, that's too bad, because it doesn't do justice to the quality of the care you can get in a US hospital vs a EU hospital. UHC in the USA, one of the fattest nations in the world is a disaster of epic proportions waiting to happen. Your idiot party members like Kennedy couldn't give a shit about all that though, because as long as they're in power they got it made and you get your abortions, your hand outs and free this and free that.

Yeah man, what does the World Health Organization know? I mean they're probably just a bunch of foreign LIEberals anyway right? Sure they have their fancy degrees and teams of people studying this, but I mean you have your completely ignorant opinion that involves zero facts and stupid insults!

God you're stupid.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

You realize our health care system is ranked one of the worst in the industrialized world, right? It's 'exceptional' all right, but not in that good sort of way.

You'd believe those reports too. We have people that come the world over to visit our hospitals, and it's not for the food or the brand of TP in the restrooms. If some report claims we have one of the worst, that's too bad, because it doesn't do justice to the quality of the care you can get in a US hospital vs a EU hospital. UHC in the USA, one of the fattest nations in the world is a disaster of epic proportions waiting to happen. Your idiot party members like Kennedy couldn't give a shit about all that though, because as long as they're in power they got it made and you get your abortions, your hand outs and free this and free that.

Yeah man, what does the World Health Organization know? I mean they're probably just a bunch of foreign LIEberals anyway right? Sure they have their fancy degrees and teams of people studying this, but I mean you have your completely ignorant opinion that involves zero facts and stupid insults!

God you're stupid.

If the UN told you that AMD made one of the worst CPU's, by your logic you'd believe it. THe question is, worst at what? Database IO? FP? Integer performance? You can't take some WHO report that makes a generic statement and take it as fact. Of course if every citizen has access to healthcare in another country, by the metric of "Who can use it" no shit sherlock that country is going to score higher than the US. But even then you have to ask more questions because if you walk into a US hospital ER they have to treat you whether you have insurance or not, money or not.

What if the WHO came out and said what the best motorized vehicle in the world was. It's a stupid ass claim unless it's qualified using a wide variety of metrics. So when your beloved WHO tells me that the US has some of the worst healthcare, I call BS because 1) They're idiots if thats what they even claimed and 2) It's wildly generic and therefore useless.

You are the idiot for not using your head here so don't get mad at me.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: Duwelon
THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

Lesser of 2 evils? After 2000 - 2006? Are you high? The (R)'s had control for 6 friggin' years and got us into a never-ending war and racked up record deficits. So much for fiscal conservatives.

Originally posted by: Duwelon
You'd believe those reports too. We have people that come the world over to visit our hospitals, and it's not for the food or the brand of TP in the restrooms. If some report claims we have one of the worst, that's too bad, because it doesn't do justice to the quality of the care you can get in a US hospital vs a EU hospital. UHC in the USA, one of the fattest nations in the world is a disaster of epic proportions waiting to happen. Your idiot party members like Kennedy couldn't give a shit about all that though, because as long as they're in power they got it made and you get your abortions, your hand outs and free this and free that.

Nevermind. You just answered my question with a single word.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Yeah man, what does the World Health Organization know? I mean they're probably just a bunch of foreign LIEberals anyway right? Sure they have their fancy degrees and teams of people studying this, but I mean you have your completely ignorant opinion that involves zero facts and stupid insults!

God you're stupid.

If the UN told you that AMD made one of the worst CPU's, by your logic you'd believe it. THe question is, worst at what? Database IO? FP? Integer performance? You can't take some WHO report that makes a generic statement and take it as fact. Of course if every citizen has access to healthcare in another country, by the metric of "Who can use it" no shit sherlock that country is going to score higher than the US. But even then you have to ask more questions because if you walk into a US hospital ER they have to treat you whether you have insurance or not, money or not.

What if the WHO came out and said what the best motorized vehicle in the world was. It's a stupid ass claim unless it's qualified using a wide variety of metrics. So when your beloved WHO tells me that the US has some of the worst healthcare, I call BS because 1) They're idiots if thats what they even claimed and 2) It's wildly generic and therefore useless.

You are the idiot for not using your head here so don't get mad at me.

You realize it makes you an idiot when you try to trash a report you haven't even read, right? That's quite some balls you have there to call someone else an idiot for not using their head when you don't even have basic knowledge of the subject under discussion.

As for your hilariously dumb comparison between CPUs and health, no of course I wouldn't listen to them on who made the best CPU's. They are researchers, statisticians, and doctors. You know what though? If a whole pile of computer science PhD's got together, did an intensive study on chips, and then came back with an answer for me on which they thought was the best overall, yeah I'd listen to them. So, when a whole load of doctors, statisticians, and researchers do an intensive study on healthcare systems around the world and come back with an answer for me, I listen to them.

But nooooo... you're just got your ignorance. Hold on to it like a life preserver. Don't let anything dent that dome of stupidity you've constructed that keeps you from having your worldview questioned no matter how strong the evidence. Your gut will tell you what's true, because as we all know you have more nerve endings in your gut then you do in your head.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Yeah man, what does the World Health Organization know? I mean they're probably just a bunch of foreign LIEberals anyway right? Sure they have their fancy degrees and teams of people studying this, but I mean you have your completely ignorant opinion that involves zero facts and stupid insults!

God you're stupid.

If the UN told you that AMD made one of the worst CPU's, by your logic you'd believe it. THe question is, worst at what? Database IO? FP? Integer performance? You can't take some WHO report that makes a generic statement and take it as fact. Of course if every citizen has access to healthcare in another country, by the metric of "Who can use it" no shit sherlock that country is going to score higher than the US. But even then you have to ask more questions because if you walk into a US hospital ER they have to treat you whether you have insurance or not, money or not.

What if the WHO came out and said what the best motorized vehicle in the world was. It's a stupid ass claim unless it's qualified using a wide variety of metrics. So when your beloved WHO tells me that the US has some of the worst healthcare, I call BS because 1) They're idiots if thats what they even claimed and 2) It's wildly generic and therefore useless.

You are the idiot for not using your head here so don't get mad at me.

You realize it makes you an idiot when you try to trash a report you haven't even read, right? That's quite some balls you have there to call someone else an idiot for not using their head when you don't even have basic knowledge of the subject under discussion.

As for your hilariously dumb comparison between CPUs and health, no of course I wouldn't listen to them on who made the best CPU's. They are researchers, statisticians, and doctors. You know what though? If a whole pile of computer science PhD's got together, did an intensive study on chips, and then came back with an answer for me on which they thought was the best overall, yeah I'd listen to them. So, when a whole load of doctors, statisticians, and researchers do an intensive study on healthcare systems around the world and come back with an answer for me, I listen to them.

But nooooo... you're just got your ignorance. Hold on to it like a life preserver. Don't let anything dent that dome of stupidity you've constructed that keeps you from having your worldview questioned no matter how strong the evidence. Your gut will tell you what's true, because as we all know you have more nerve endings in your gut then you do in your head.

Have you ever been in a US hospital? Have you seen the quality of care that your average citizen gets? How much faster they get some procedures done compared to the same procedures in other countries that have nationalized healthcare?

I've been in the hospital as a patient and visited family and friends many times and I can tell you, the horror stories I hear about NHC in the EU are frightening. The quality of care that i've gotten has been awesome. So when some group comes along and tells me it sucks, and blind brainwashed liberals like you try to tell me that it sucks without any kind of qualifiers or metrics to prove your point, you can go screw yourself because my own experience tells me otherwise.

Here's the difference between you and me. Someone tells me something, I consider the big picture first before I make a decision on it and form an opinion. I actually take into consideration more than one thing at a time. By your own admittance, in your gung ho lemming style adoption of the WHO view of "America healthcare sucks so it must be true" Your personality would have been the perfect fodder for Hitler had you been born in 1910 or the like. Get that strong father figure spouting at you, have an enemy of the "Lesser races" with the local scientists using evolution to push their master race agenda, and you would have been right there rounding up jews as a pawn of the state because well, they seem educated. That's my opinion anyway, I could have been wrong and maybe you would have been a Schindler or something but it sure doesn't look like you think about the big picture very much.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

You realize it makes you an idiot when you try to trash a report you haven't even read, right? That's quite some balls you have there to call someone else an idiot for not using their head when you don't even have basic knowledge of the subject under discussion.

As for your hilariously dumb comparison between CPUs and health, no of course I wouldn't listen to them on who made the best CPU's. They are researchers, statisticians, and doctors. You know what though? If a whole pile of computer science PhD's got together, did an intensive study on chips, and then came back with an answer for me on which they thought was the best overall, yeah I'd listen to them. So, when a whole load of doctors, statisticians, and researchers do an intensive study on healthcare systems around the world and come back with an answer for me, I listen to them.

But nooooo... you're just got your ignorance. Hold on to it like a life preserver. Don't let anything dent that dome of stupidity you've constructed that keeps you from having your worldview questioned no matter how strong the evidence. Your gut will tell you what's true, because as we all know you have more nerve endings in your gut then you do in your head.

Have you ever been in a US hospital? Have you seen the quality of care that your average citizen gets? How much faster they get some procedures done compared to the same procedures in other countries that have nationalized healthcare?

I've been in the hospital as a patient and visited family and friends many times and I can tell you, the horror stories I hear about NHC in the EU are frightening. The quality of care that i've gotten has been awesome. So when some group comes along and tells me it sucks, and blind brainwashed liberals like you try to tell me that it sucks without any kind of qualifiers or metrics to prove your point, you can go screw yourself because my own experience tells me otherwise.

Here's the difference between you and me. Someone tells me something, I consider the big picture first before I make a decision on it and form an opinion. I actually take into consideration more than one thing at a time. By your own admittance, in your gung ho lemming style adoption of the WHO view of "America healthcare sucks so it must be true" Your personality would have been the perfect fodder for Hitler had you been born in 1910 or the like. Get that strong father figure spouting at you, have an enemy of the "Lesser races" with the local scientists using evolution to push their master race agenda, and you would have been right there rounding up jews as a pawn of the state because well, they seem educated. That's my opinion anyway, I could have been wrong and maybe you would have been a Schindler or something but it sure doesn't look like you think about the big picture very much.

Yes I've been in a hospital in the US. See now what you're trying to do is anecdotal evidence to refute statistical analysis. The whole "I don't care what your study says, I know the truth!" is the last pathetic refuge of a failed argument. Well, that and the Hitler thing you just tried to pull. That's the really last, pathetic refuge. The "If you accept the WHO's analysis on health care you would have killed the Jews" argument is not something you want people to know you wrote. It's embarrassing for you.

You're asking about metrics, why don't you GO READ THE STUDY? What the hell do you think they based their rankings on? Unlike you, the people doing that study attempted to compile facts based upon salient criteria to base their evaluation on. This stands in marked contrast to your "I WENT TO A HOSPITAL ONCE AND I HAVE A FRIEND THAT DIDN'T LIKE CARE IN THE EU" argument. I can't even believe you have so little sense of shame that you would try to put forth that childish and ignorant an argument. Does that really work where you come from? If it does, shame on all of you.

Clap your hands over your ears and sing to yourself all you want, nobody can force you to accept reality. You can't expect us who are living in it to sign on to your self delusion and enforced ignorance though. The grownup world needs to solve these problems.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

You realize it makes you an idiot when you try to trash a report you haven't even read, right? That's quite some balls you have there to call someone else an idiot for not using their head when you don't even have basic knowledge of the subject under discussion.

As for your hilariously dumb comparison between CPUs and health, no of course I wouldn't listen to them on who made the best CPU's. They are researchers, statisticians, and doctors. You know what though? If a whole pile of computer science PhD's got together, did an intensive study on chips, and then came back with an answer for me on which they thought was the best overall, yeah I'd listen to them. So, when a whole load of doctors, statisticians, and researchers do an intensive study on healthcare systems around the world and come back with an answer for me, I listen to them.

But nooooo... you're just got your ignorance. Hold on to it like a life preserver. Don't let anything dent that dome of stupidity you've constructed that keeps you from having your worldview questioned no matter how strong the evidence. Your gut will tell you what's true, because as we all know you have more nerve endings in your gut then you do in your head.

Have you ever been in a US hospital? Have you seen the quality of care that your average citizen gets? How much faster they get some procedures done compared to the same procedures in other countries that have nationalized healthcare?

I've been in the hospital as a patient and visited family and friends many times and I can tell you, the horror stories I hear about NHC in the EU are frightening. The quality of care that i've gotten has been awesome. So when some group comes along and tells me it sucks, and blind brainwashed liberals like you try to tell me that it sucks without any kind of qualifiers or metrics to prove your point, you can go screw yourself because my own experience tells me otherwise.

Here's the difference between you and me. Someone tells me something, I consider the big picture first before I make a decision on it and form an opinion. I actually take into consideration more than one thing at a time. By your own admittance, in your gung ho lemming style adoption of the WHO view of "America healthcare sucks so it must be true" Your personality would have been the perfect fodder for Hitler had you been born in 1910 or the like. Get that strong father figure spouting at you, have an enemy of the "Lesser races" with the local scientists using evolution to push their master race agenda, and you would have been right there rounding up jews as a pawn of the state because well, they seem educated. That's my opinion anyway, I could have been wrong and maybe you would have been a Schindler or something but it sure doesn't look like you think about the big picture very much.

Yes I've been in a hospital in the US. See now what you're trying to do is anecdotal evidence to refute statistical analysis. The whole "I don't care what your study says, I know the truth!" is the last pathetic refuge of a failed argument. Well, that and the Hitler thing you just tried to pull. That's the really last, pathetic refuge. The "If you accept the WHO's analysis on health care you would have killed the Jews" argument is not something you want people to know you wrote. It's embarrassing for you.

You're asking about metrics, why don't you GO READ THE STUDY? What the hell do you think they based their rankings on? Unlike you, the people doing that study attempted to compile facts based upon salient criteria to base their evaluation on. This stands in marked contrast to your "I WENT TO A HOSPITAL ONCE AND I HAVE A FRIEND THAT DIDN'T LIKE CARE IN THE EU" argument. I can't even believe you have so little sense of shame that you would try to put forth that childish and ignorant an argument. Does that really work where you come from? If it does, shame on all of you.

Clap your hands over your ears and sing to yourself all you want, nobody can force you to accept reality. You can't expect us who are living in it to sign on to your self delusion and enforced ignorance though. The grownup world needs to solve these problems.

I made a point about the quality of the healthcare in the US, something WHO report does a shitty job of even investigating. You're skull is so thick it's not worth it to argue anymore. Instead of taking that WHO report, that Michael Moore's Sicko used to make innacurate claims on even, go read some real analysis of the WHO report instead. If common sense doesn't tell you that one or two top 10 lists don't mean jack then at least find out how they reached those numbers.

By the way, the US ranks 37th out of 200'ish nations on one index and 15th on another, hardly "one of the worst" in the world anyway.

Here's some links about your beloved WHO that you should read, if you actually want to take your own advice and open your mind and free yourself of delusions, at least they'll give you another perspective:

http://www.rangelmd.com/index....-health-care-rankings/

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.co...e-rankings-part-1.html

 

[abj13]

*Shrug* I don't know how people can be so satisfied with the health care system when on a per capita expenditure, the US spends almost double the amount that other industrialized nations spend. Or how people aren't upset that our broken system causes US citizens to invest nearly 50% more GNP into health care than other industrialized nations, while still having massive pockets of the population uninsured or underinsured. Clearly, the US is not getting 50% better health outcomes than other nations, WHO or no WHO report, it's just common sense our bloated and mangled health care is grossly underperforming our investment into it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

I made a point about the quality of the healthcare in the US, something WHO report does a shitty job of even investigating. You're skull is so thick it's not worth it to argue anymore. Instead of taking that WHO report, that Michael Moore's Sicko used to make innacurate claims on even, go read some real analysis of the WHO report instead. If common sense doesn't tell you that one or two top 10 lists don't mean jack then at least find out how they reached those numbers.

By the way, the US ranks 37th out of 200'ish nations on one index and 15th on another, hardly "one of the worst" in the world anyway.

Here's some links about your beloved WHO that you should read, if you actually want to take your own advice and open your mind and free yourself of delusions, at least they'll give you another perspective:

http://www.rangelmd.com/index....-health-care-rankings/

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.co...e-rankings-part-1.html

Hey genius, I never said it was one of the worst in the world, I said it was one of the worst in the industrialized world... and it is. For someone who was trying to argue against a study because it told him things he didn't want to hear... to turn around and try and call someone else 'thick skulled' is hilarious. The WHO study isn't perfect, but it provides a reasonable evaluation tool of the various systems of the world. Sorry, but our system isn't the best. America is great at a lot of things, but it isn't the best at everything and this is one case where we've royally screwed up. There's no shame in admitting it, it's okay.

You're not just stupid, you're proudly ignorant. You just got owned so badly you had to resort to personal insults and Hitler references. Pathetic. Funny, but still pathetic.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

I made a point about the quality of the healthcare in the US, something WHO report does a shitty job of even investigating. You're skull is so thick it's not worth it to argue anymore. Instead of taking that WHO report, that Michael Moore's Sicko used to make innacurate claims on even, go read some real analysis of the WHO report instead. If common sense doesn't tell you that one or two top 10 lists don't mean jack then at least find out how they reached those numbers.

By the way, the US ranks 37th out of 200'ish nations on one index and 15th on another, hardly "one of the worst" in the world anyway.

Here's some links about your beloved WHO that you should read, if you actually want to take your own advice and open your mind and free yourself of delusions, at least they'll give you another perspective:

http://www.rangelmd.com/index....-health-care-rankings/

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.co...e-rankings-part-1.html

Hey genius, I never said it was one of the worst in the world, I said it was one of the worst in the industrialized world... and it is. For someone who was trying to argue against a study because it told him things he didn't want to hear... to turn around and try and call someone else 'thick skulled' is hilarious. The WHO study isn't perfect, but it provides a reasonable evaluation tool of the various systems of the world. Sorry, but our system isn't the best. America is great at a lot of things, but it isn't the best at everything and this is one case where we've royally screwed up. There's no shame in admitting it, it's okay.

You're not just stupid, you're proudly ignorant. You just got owned so badly you had to resort to personal insults and Hitler references. Pathetic. Funny, but still pathetic.

You started the personal insults, and i made a logical analogy based on your blind faith in "superiors", aka the WHO. You can think you owned me all you want, i know i'm more informed on this subject than you are.

The fact that you fail to even cite anything from that WHO report other than some talking point catch phrase you probably got from the daily show tells me how clueless you are.

Did you even read those links i posted or are you just trolling?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

I made a point about the quality of the healthcare in the US, something WHO report does a shitty job of even investigating. You're skull is so thick it's not worth it to argue anymore. Instead of taking that WHO report, that Michael Moore's Sicko used to make innacurate claims on even, go read some real analysis of the WHO report instead. If common sense doesn't tell you that one or two top 10 lists don't mean jack then at least find out how they reached those numbers.

By the way, the US ranks 37th out of 200'ish nations on one index and 15th on another, hardly "one of the worst" in the world anyway.

Here's some links about your beloved WHO that you should read, if you actually want to take your own advice and open your mind and free yourself of delusions, at least they'll give you another perspective:

http://www.rangelmd.com/index....-health-care-rankings/

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.co...e-rankings-part-1.html

Hey genius, I never said it was one of the worst in the world, I said it was one of the worst in the industrialized world... and it is. For someone who was trying to argue against a study because it told him things he didn't want to hear... to turn around and try and call someone else 'thick skulled' is hilarious. The WHO study isn't perfect, but it provides a reasonable evaluation tool of the various systems of the world. Sorry, but our system isn't the best. America is great at a lot of things, but it isn't the best at everything and this is one case where we've royally screwed up. There's no shame in admitting it, it's okay.

You're not just stupid, you're proudly ignorant. You just got owned so badly you had to resort to personal insults and Hitler references. Pathetic. Funny, but still pathetic.

You started the personal insults, and i made a logical analogy based on your blind faith in "superiors", aka the WHO. You can think you owned me all you want, i know i'm more informed on this subject than you are.

The fact that you fail to even cite anything from that WHO report other than some talking point catch phrase you probably got from the daily show tells me how clueless you are.

Did you even read those links i posted or are you just trolling?

Looks like you don't really understand what trolling is. If I remember you were one of those people who had to be taught what a straw man was too. What would I cite from the report? Can you think of a specific line of argument that would be bolstered by citation from it?

I'm sure you think you're more informed on this subject than I am. That's part of your whole fundamental ignorance. I know you haven't spent any actual time researching this issue (or if you have you have completely left it out of your argument). Even with having spent zero time educating yourself, you still assume through anecdotal evidence that you know all that you need to know. That's why you write the things that you do, not only in this thread but in others. You were convinced evolution and the big bang were wrong and it turned out you didn't even know what the terms meant. This thread is only another display of that.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Hey genius, I never said it was one of the worst in the world, I said it was one of the worst in the industrialized world... and it is. For someone who was trying to argue against a study because it told him things he didn't want to hear... to turn around and try and call someone else 'thick skulled' is hilarious. The WHO study isn't perfect, but it provides a reasonable evaluation tool of the various systems of the world. Sorry, but our system isn't the best. America is great at a lot of things, but it isn't the best at everything and this is one case where we've royally screwed up. There's no shame in admitting it, it's okay.

You're not just stupid, you're proudly ignorant. You just got owned so badly you had to resort to personal insults and Hitler references. Pathetic. Funny, but still pathetic.

You started the personal insults, and i made a logical analogy based on your blind faith in "superiors", aka the WHO. You can think you owned me all you want, i know i'm more informed on this subject than you are.

The fact that you fail to even cite anything from that WHO report other than some talking point catch phrase you probably got from the daily show tells me how clueless you are.

Did you even read those links i posted or are you just trolling?

Looks like you don't really understand what trolling is. If I remember you were one of those people who had to be taught what a straw man was too. What would I cite from the report? Can you think of a specific line of argument that would be bolstered by citation from it?

I'm sure you think you're more informed on this subject than I am. That's part of your whole fundamental ignorance. I know you haven't spent any actual time researching this issue (or if you have you have completely left it out of your argument). Even with having spent zero time educating yourself, you still assume through anecdotal evidence that you know all that you need to know. That's why you write the things that you do, not only in this thread but in others. You were convinced evolution and the big bang were wrong and it turned out you didn't even know what the terms meant. This thread is only another display of that.

Run, that's what I thought.

Edit: You want me to make your arguments for you now? LOL. Your the guy who claimed the US healthcare sucked, citing the WHO. So I brought up questions about WHO, which you have refused to even question and instead come after me as if it helps your argument at all. And you think i'm the one out of sync? That's all i got time for, I got a job in the morning that pays crappy but allows me to earn access to the best quality healthcare in the world. You probably got a welfare check to collect or whatever the hell itis you do that has you so far in denial that you have to resort to personal attacks first instead of real debating.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Run, that's what I thought.

Edit: You want me to make your arguments for you now? LOL. Your the guy who claimed the US healthcare sucked, citing the WHO. So I brought up questions about WHO, which you have refused to even question and instead come after me as if it helps your argument at all. And you think i'm the one out of sync? That's all i got time for, I got a job in the morning that pays crappy but allows me to earn access to the best quality healthcare in the world. You probably got a welfare check to collect or whatever the hell itis you do that has you so far in denial that you have to resort to personal attacks first instead of real debating.

What are you talking about? You asked me why I haven't cited parts of the study, my response is that none of the lines of argument I had used would have benefited from citations, and so I was wondering what the hell you were talking about when you said it. Trust me, I don't want you to make my arguments for me. You don't know how.

I think you mistake the reason why I personally attack you. It has nothing to do with your arguments. Those are so poor that they don't even really require refutation. (hint: anecdotal evidence is pretty much the worst kind of evidence possible. If you ever find yourself basing your argument on that... find a better argument.) The WHO study is one of many studies that have found the US system to be seriously lacking compared to other industrialized nations. It's not like it's an outlier. You would know this if you spent even a few minutes researching the topic.

The reason I attack you is because of your attitude. You revel in your ignorance. You've showed this in a number of threads at this point, and it's an attribute in people I simply can't stand. I don't care if someone is dumb, it just bothers me if they are proud to be dumb. And that's you.

Now I am going to go to sleep soon as well to get up for my job in the morning that pays me moderately well, well enough to afford our expensive and moderately effective health care system. Try and think up some better insults then 'hurr hurr you're probably on welfare!' That's pretty embarrassingly bad.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: hellod9
I am finding it increasingly difficult to support Barack Obama. Here's why:

1. He voted to re-authorize the Patriot Act.
2. He voted for the new FISA bill, which further erodes our rights AND grants retroactive immunity to telecoms.
3. He chose the guy who WROTE the Patriot Act as his Vice President.

All this adds up to a very disturbing picture. It is VERY unfortunate. Civil rights for the lose!

I really want to support Barack Obama, but I just don't see how I can do that now.

Do you really want Mr McCain to choose the next two or three US Supreme Court Justices? Do you want four to eight years of Mr McCain deermning domestic and foreign policy?

I know people who vote for Mr Nader because Mr Kerry was not their perfect candidate. Look how that turned out for the country.