how could a liberal/progressive possibly support Barack Obama?

[Lemon law]

Yes, I am politically to the left of Obama and am unhappy with some of his positions, but the wrong positions of Obama are even worse in McCain. Of course I could do a write in ballot for Kucinich or Nader, but we have been there, done that, in 2000, in Florida, and we got GWB instead of Gore.

I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

 

[CPA]

Don't forget he favors the Employee's Free Choice Act which will eliminate secret votes on union organization. Say goodbye to your right to a private voting process at your place of employment.

 

[fskimospy]

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

Imagine if it were culturally ingrained to slander blacks in the same way we slander liberals. Then all the attacks on Obama would be racial. The bias against liberals has been created by spending billions to imply to children growing up that liberals are bad over and over again so that Americans grow up as bigots, people who have an irrational bias against something.

Then with the bigotry in place, the hate of the self directed at some specific other, the task then becomes simple. You just link the opposition to the bigotry by calling him a liberal. That's all it takes and millions and millions of brainwashed imbeciles will vote against him.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: eskimospy
Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

And yet, I've been calling him a moderate all along.

The truth was the first casualty of this election cycle.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Deeko
Right. There are other candidates that support your ultra-left views like McCain and Barr?

I'm not saying Obama is this, but the democrats NEED a moderate candidate....

Funny how "moderate" always seems to read as someone who will trample on human rights, and how we always need them. There is nothing moderate about those who are among the party elite and who only act to empower themselves over the people.

Bush ran as a "compassionate" conservative because he believed in government over human rights. McCain shows no difference there, neither does Obama or Biden. They belong to the same party if their intentions on abusing our rights are any indication.

Those of us who oppose such abuses would do well to come together and oppose all of them, instead of deluding ourselves that these party elite are any different from one another.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Robor

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: hellod9

I really want to support Barack Obama, but I just don't see how I can do that now.

Shens!

x2

And the OP is FOS on his 'Biden wrote the patriot act' attempt.

iden drafted anti-terrorist legislation, which was ultimately defeated. He later claimed publicly on several occasions that the USA PATRIOT Act of 2001 ? which eased restrictions on the Executive branch in the surveillance and detention of those suspected of terrorism or facilitating it ? was essentially a duplicate of the anti-terrorist legislation he had drafted years earlier.

close enough. it's not like politicians write the bills themselves anyway.

Originally posted by: Robor

Yeah, except for the parts he disagreed with that were in my original link. Big difference but what does that matter when you're trying to drive home a point, right?

he disagreed with a couple of the wiretapping provisions, but not all of them. that's what? a few sections of a huge bill?

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Deeko
Right. There are other candidates that support your ultra-left views like McCain and Barr?

I'm not saying Obama is this, but the democrats NEED a moderate candidate....

Funny how "moderate" always seems to read as someone who will trample on human rights, and how we always need them. There is nothing moderate about those who are among the party elite and who only act to empower themselves over the people.

Bush ran as a "compassionate" conservative because he believed in government over human rights. McCain shows no difference there, neither does Obama or Biden. They belong to the same party if their intentions on abusing our rights are any indication.

Those of us who oppose such abuses would do well to come together and oppose all of them, instead of deluding ourselves that these party elite are any different from one another.

Quick dragging the Dems down to your low moral level; after all, how many times did you vote for Bush?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
close enough. it's not like politicians write the bills themselves anyway.

IMO it's not close enough. The OP is one of many misleading half-truths and out of context quotes being spread around to deliberately misinform. My mother was shocked to learn I was supporting Obama. I asked her why and she said, 'because he's muslim!'. I corrected her and she said, 'well his relatives are muslim'. Unfortunately, my mother is one of the people who gets her news in snippets from sensationalist MSM and chain letter Emails.

Originally posted by: ElFenix
he disagreed with a couple of the wiretapping provisions, but not all of them. that's what? a few sections of a huge bill?

Granted, but he didn't author the Patriot Act and the wiretaps have been a big issue of late.

Edit: quotes again

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest
There are many other reasons. Has any one else here looked at his tax returns.

OBAMA has paid NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX!!! what does that mean? He has never saved a dime. He has not invested his money, that is a poor personal fiscal policy. God knows what he thinks the rest of US fiscal policy should look like.

Son, without googling, do you even know what a capital gain is? I'm thinking no.

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: jonks

Originally posted by: Jakeisbest
There are many other reasons. Has any one else here looked at his tax returns.

OBAMA has paid NO CAPITAL GAINS TAX!!! what does that mean? He has never saved a dime. He has not invested his money, that is a poor personal fiscal policy. God knows what he thinks the rest of US fiscal policy should look like.

Son, without googling, do you even know what a capital gain is? I'm thinking no.

:laugh: I think he ran off after the spankdown that followed his post.

 

[Deeko]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Deeko
Right. There are other candidates that support your ultra-left views like McCain and Barr?

I'm not saying Obama is this, but the democrats NEED a moderate candidate....

Funny how "moderate" always seems to read as someone who will trample on human rights, and how we always need them. There is nothing moderate about those who are among the party elite and who only act to empower themselves over the people.

Bush ran as a "compassionate" conservative because he believed in government over human rights. McCain shows no difference there, neither does Obama or Biden. They belong to the same party if their intentions on abusing our rights are any indication.

Those of us who oppose such abuses would do well to come together and oppose all of them, instead of deluding ourselves that these party elite are any different from one another.

What in the hell are you rambling about? When I refer to a moderate democrat candidate, clearly I refer to one that is not an ultra-left liberal. One that has views a not-so-extreme conservative could embrace. What I said has 0 to do with human rights, it's really cute how you people completely change what is said solely to give you an excuse to go off on some tangent.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: feralkid

Originally posted by: hellod9


I really want to support Barack Obama, but I just don't see how I can do that now.

Shens!

I disagree, I don't think his post is 'shens'. He makes some good points.

However I disagree with him on his choice not to support Barack.

The bottom line is that we can push for the best candidate we can - for me, that was Kucinich this election - but we should vote for the lesser of evils, to keep the trend that direction. Not doing so gave us a Nixon over a Humphrey - in no small part because Vietnam war opponents protested the *Democrats'* convention, not Nixon's (allowing Nixon to claim to be the 'peace candidate', perversely).

It can give us the disaster of a Reagan over a less than ideal Carter; need I mention, a George W. Bush over an Al Gore?

For example, I agree with the OP on single payer healthcare - but we don't have a candidate this time who supports it. So, our choices are Obama and McCain.

Not opposing McCain this election with a vote for Obama is a big mistake, IMO.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: hellod9
I am finding it increasingly difficult to support Barack Obama. Here's why:

1. He voted to re-authorize the Patriot Act.
2. He voted for the new FISA bill, which further erodes our rights AND grants retroactive immunity to telecoms.
3. He chose the guy who WROTE the Patriot Act as his Vice President.

All this adds up to a very disturbing picture. It is VERY unfortunate. Civil rights for the lose!

I really want to support Barack Obama, but I just don't see how I can do that now.

So, you're gonna vote for McCain then?

 

[Deeko]

Oh no, he isn't voting at all.

 

[midway]

Originally posted by: CPA
Don't forget he favors the Employee's Free Choice Act which will eliminate secret votes on union organization. Say goodbye to your right to a private voting process at your place of employment.

The Employee Free Choice Act basically cuts a step out of forming a union. Those signatures that would be required for form a union are already required. But as it currently stands those signatures have to be turned in and then the company can (and basically always does) require a secret ballot election. This all sounds well and good until you consider the following A) Companies are allowed to pay management to campaign against the union on company time while labor is not allowed to do so on company time but only on breaks, and B) many companies have been found to fire/harass employees who were leaders in the unionization movement between the time of the signature collection and the time of the election.

 

[m1ldslide1]

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

 

[jjones]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
I'm going to stay home and eat worms because none of the candidates fit my ideals and lofty dreams and my ideals and lofty dreams are a part of my ego. If my ego isn't stoked I'll take my marbles and not play. Here's to allowing the worst of the evils to win because I'm an egocentric, spiritually and ideologically pure, prick. My way or the high way, bubyeway.

Why not recognize they are both equally evil because they derive from the same corruption? Why condemn somone that doesn't wish to participate in the sham? Why not be courageous, stand on principle and demand better instead of inevitably accepting the same ilk every election?

I'm sorry, but I'll never accept the lesser of two evils because I could never discern who that would be anyway. You say Obama is the lesser of two evils, while others here will tell me McCain is. To hell with all of you and your opinions; you only perpetuate the fraud.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

GWB signed just about every law that crossed his desk. Look where that's gotten us.
Maybe it's time to sign a bunch of laws passed by a Democratic Congress to reverse some of the damage?

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

GWB signed just about every law that crossed his desk. Look where that's gotten us.
Maybe it's time to sign a bunch of laws passed by a Democratic Congress to reverse some of the damage?

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

GWB signed just about every law that crossed his desk. Look where that's gotten us.
Maybe it's time to sign a bunch of laws passed by a Democratic Congress to reverse some of the damage?

It's just part of the standard issue stance. If Congress were controlled by the Republicans they would still push for McCain (or whoever), claiming that he and Congress will finally be able to get things done. Since the Democrats control Congress, they say they want gridlock, because one party controlling everything is bad. It's just rationalizing.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

You realize our health care system is ranked one of the worst in the industrialized world, right? It's 'exceptional' all right, but not in that good sort of way.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Duwelon

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

You realize our health care system is ranked one of the worst in the industrialized world, right? It's 'exceptional' all right, but not in that good sort of way.

You'd believe those reports too. We have people that come the world over to visit our hospitals, and it's not for the food or the brand of TP in the restrooms. If some report claims we have one of the worst, that's too bad, because it doesn't do justice to the quality of the care you can get in a US hospital vs a EU hospital. UHC in the USA, one of the fattest nations in the world is a disaster of epic proportions waiting to happen. Your idiot party members like Kennedy couldn't give a shit about all that though, because as long as they're in power they got it made and you get your abortions, your hand outs and free this and free that.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: m1ldslide1

Originally posted by: Lemon law
I have no problems voting the lesser of all evils in 2008.

And you'll never have any other real option in this country. Here's betting we won't see a legitimate 3-way race within our lifetimes.

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Isn't it interesting how some people on these boards continue to try and claim that Obama is some insane far left liberal, and yet all the actual liberals on here are unhappy with how centrist he is. (myself included)

This happens about once a day by my count. There are some newer P&N'ers that are spewing the vitriol who haven't been properly spanked yet.

Whether's the most liberal or just liberal, he's still liberal and i fear he'll pass every piece of stinking pile of crap legislature that comes to his desk if it has a democratic majority behind it. Any argument to the contrary about his so called liberalism is nothing but a smokescreen to subdue the fears of those in the true center.

GWB signed just about every law that crossed his desk. Look where that's gotten us.
Maybe it's time to sign a bunch of laws passed by a Democratic Congress to reverse some of the damage?

THe only hope our country has right now short of a visible act of God is if a Libertarian (yeah right) or Republican congress and a republican or libertarian president got elected in a major majority. I'm not happy about Republican spending but they are the lesser of the two evils.

My biggest fear for this country is the democrats getting both the executive and legislative branches of government under their control and being allowed to pass universal health care. It will be the end of America's exceptional healthcare as we know it and will destroy it for all instead of allowing those who earn it have it.

Republican spending, while cutting taxes, is what has gotten this country into the current mess. Trillions in debt.
Somehow, other industrialized nations are able to have UHC, and yet they have a higher standard of living than the US and are happier people.
AFAIK, univeral healthcare does not prevent you from spending your own money for private medical care.
Maybe instead of launching wars against countries that didn't attack us, and nation building, we could spend some money helping people that live here in the US?