understood. for those not in the know, one would assume that a widescreen dvd would fit perfectly into a widescreen tv. if anything, hollywood should get all the flak for making different aspect ratios. IMHO, they should've sticked with the 16:9 ratios that seems to have become the standard for HDTV so that others won't have make any new investments (in televisions). Furthermore, since 16:9 is the norm for new televisions, a transfer to widescreen DVD should be just that, not 2.35:1. It'll just cause more confusion.
understood. for those not in the know, one would assume that a widescreen dvd would fit perfectly into a widescreen tv. if anything, hollywood should get all the flak for making different aspect ratios. IMHO, they should've sticked with the 16:9 ratios that seems to have become the standard for HDTV so that others won't have make any new investments (in televisions). Furthermore, since 16:9 is the norm for new televisions, a transfer to widescreen DVD should be just that, not 2.35:1. It'll just cause more confusion.
But most of these movies were filmed in 2.35:1 before anybody had ever heard of HDTV. What are you going to do then? When I buy a movie, I want the whole movie, not 3/4 of it. It's the director's choice on which aspect ratio to use. If you have a problem with it then don't watch any movies that aren't 16:9.
Amused
Elite Member
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Actually, NO.
Directors have movie theaters in mind, NOT TVs. Therefore they are not interested in whether or not their movie will fit on your TV screen. They choose the aspect ratio they feels best displays the artistic image they wish to create. Most epic films will be 2.35:1 because the wider aspect ratio is much more dramatic.
And DVD makers are interested in displaying the movie AS IT WAS MADE. To make a 2.35:1 movie fit on your screen would mean cutting off the sides of the film, thus loosing much of the picture and changing the artistic value of it's images.
The IDEAL TV would adjust it's screen to match the current aspect ratio being showed at the time just as movie theater screens do. But that would be too expensive. So 16:9 was chosen as a happy medium to minimize the black bars from the different aspect ratios.
When *I* see a movie, I want to see it exactly as it was made. I LOATH cropping because it ruins the images created by the director. It would be like cutting up classic works of art because the frames you have don't fit them.
FeathersMcGraw
Diamond Member
- Oct 17, 2001
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So you're basically advocating turning some widescreen transfers into something akin to, albeit slightly less crappy than, fullscreen transfers.
Complaining about black bars really just demonstrates a lack of knowledge about what widescreen televisions intend to accomplish, which is getting as close to OAR as possible. I say let the people be pissed off by them -- maybe if they're incensed enough, they'll do some reading and learning.
Maetryx
Diamond Member
- Jan 18, 2001
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Okay, I'll be "good HDTV cop". Dari makes a good point. The black-bar phenomenon is another example of a technology industry using vague terms to make things seem better or more compatible than they are. Think of USB 2.0 full speed (formerly known as USB1.1) and USB 2.0 high speed (the real deal). Now us technophiles have to memorize the mundane, vague fact that "full speed" means slow and "high speed" means fast.
It's kind of like that with DVDs. They confuse the Consumer Reports-reading public with terminology like Full Screen (meaning narrow, old 4:3 aspect ration) and Widescreen (meaning... well, anything from 4:3 with blackbars programmed into the top and bottom to 2.35 anamorphic... with many steps in between).
So here's a DVD and it says Widescreen right on it. Here's my brand spanking new Widescreen TV. And here are the black bars, possibly on all four sides. WTF? Now I've gotta learn about zoom modes, etc.
I can see that that would be very frustrating.
OTOH, welcome to the bleeding edge. Do all your homework because there will be an expensive test of your technology prowess.
It's kind of like that with DVDs. They confuse the Consumer Reports-reading public with terminology like Full Screen (meaning narrow, old 4:3 aspect ration) and Widescreen (meaning... well, anything from 4:3 with blackbars programmed into the top and bottom to 2.35 anamorphic... with many steps in between).
So here's a DVD and it says Widescreen right on it. Here's my brand spanking new Widescreen TV. And here are the black bars, possibly on all four sides. WTF? Now I've gotta learn about zoom modes, etc.
I can see that that would be very frustrating.
OTOH, welcome to the bleeding edge. Do all your homework because there will be an expensive test of your technology prowess.
dr150
Diamond Member
- Sep 18, 2003
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This is an educational thread and a very good question asked. I had the same question. 
I understand that the Director shoots it the way he wants it.
My question is can't the studios do a TRANSFER to DVD in exact 16:9? After all, the widescreen TVs are in 16:9. For crissakes, digitize the friggin movie to 16:9!
I also wonder about the Hollywood merlins that use FRENCH subtitles instead of Spanish subtitles on most movies. I understand that there's the small Candian French-speaking market, but damn, cater to the largest minority group in the US! What fools.
I understand that the Director shoots it the way he wants it.
My question is can't the studios do a TRANSFER to DVD in exact 16:9? After all, the widescreen TVs are in 16:9. For crissakes, digitize the friggin movie to 16:9!
I also wonder about the Hollywood merlins that use FRENCH subtitles instead of Spanish subtitles on most movies. I understand that there's the small Candian French-speaking market, but damn, cater to the largest minority group in the US! What fools.
Aves
Lifer
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Region 1 is not just the US, it's the US & Canada and IIRC 25% of Canadians speak French.Originally posted by: dr150
I also wonder about the Hollywood merlins that use FRENCH subtitles instead of Spanish subtitles on most movies. I understand that there's the small Candian French-speaking market, but damn, cater to the largest minority group in the US! What fools.
CubicZirconia
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- Nov 24, 2001
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You can sit there and feel all great about yourself because of how smart you are, but this guy is far from alone. I guarantee there are more people out there who don't understand this than people who do. Yes, if one does his/her research, everything makes perfect sense. But the average person is going to assume that widescreen movies will fit in a widescreen TV.
In short, don't be an a$$hole.
Amused
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Originally posted by: aves2k
Region 1 is not just the US, it's the US & Canada and IIRC 25% of Canadians speak French.Originally posted by: dr150
I also wonder about the Hollywood merlins that use FRENCH subtitles instead of Spanish subtitles on most movies. I understand that there's the small Candian French-speaking market, but damn, cater to the largest minority group in the US! What fools.
Not only that, but it is law that anything sold in Quebec MUST be in French. That is way most region 1 DVDs are French and English.
Amused
Elite Member
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Originally posted by: dr150
This is an educational thread and a very good question asked. I had the same question.
I understand that the Director shoots it the way he wants it.
My question is can't the studios do a TRANSFER to DVD in exact 16:9? After all, the widescreen TVs are in 16:9. For crissakes, digitize the friggin movie to 16:9!
Say the Mona Lisa is 60 inches by 30 inches, but my picture frame is only 50 inches my 30 inches. Would that justify cutting off a significant portion of the picture to fit this classic piece of art in my frame?
Of course not.
The same goes for a movie. To make a 2.35:1 movie fit on a 16:9 screen, you have to crop the sides significantly. No amount of digital editing is going to replace that lost part of the image. Digital editing cannot change the laws of geometry.
Wonder how many of these folks who arn't reading the answers are also the folks who can't program their vcr's....or dvd players now....
this is why im leaning towards a 50"ish 4:3. letterboxed will still be around 40". if im gonna have bars when watching a dvd, id rather be able to watch normal tv with no bars which is what i watch the most anyway. in a few years when most tv is 16:9, ill buy another one.
Originally posted by: amnesiac
Exactly why I'm happy with the 54" Samsung HDTV I got last week for $849
:Q
do tell!
ignore the pointless arguing.
just set both your DVD player and TV to 16:9 modes. if any movies still have "black bars" it's because they were supposed to have them, and you just have to deal with it.
just set both your DVD player and TV to 16:9 modes. if any movies still have "black bars" it's because they were supposed to have them, and you just have to deal with it.
Amused
Elite Member
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One more piece of advice:
If you have both your TV and DVD player set to 16:9 (as you should) and play a non-anamorphic DVD, it will appear stretched.
The way to solve this is to set your TV on 4:3 zoom. It wont look as pretty as an anamorphic DVD, of course, but that's the only way to view it. This is way you ALWAYS want to look for "anamorphic" or "enhanced for 16:9 TVs."
If you have both your TV and DVD player set to 16:9 (as you should) and play a non-anamorphic DVD, it will appear stretched.
The way to solve this is to set your TV on 4:3 zoom. It wont look as pretty as an anamorphic DVD, of course, but that's the only way to view it. This is way you ALWAYS want to look for "anamorphic" or "enhanced for 16:9 TVs."
I don't know why you guys are hammering on him so much. I know a lot of people who didn't realize that all movies didn't come in 1.78:1 ratio. As a matter of fact, you can lump me in with that crowd. The first time I watched a DVD at my friend's house, on his brand new HDTV, I was quite surprised to see the black bars.
Dari, another suggestion for you... Many DVD players have a "zoom" feature, in which they'll zoom in to fill those bars. This will, of course, cut off the sides of the picture. Check to see if yours has that option, then you can choose if you want to use it or not.
I've tried it on mine, but the image quality also seems to degrade.
Dari, another suggestion for you... Many DVD players have a "zoom" feature, in which they'll zoom in to fill those bars. This will, of course, cut off the sides of the picture. Check to see if yours has that option, then you can choose if you want to use it or not.
I've tried it on mine, but the image quality also seems to degrade.
Amused
Elite Member
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The image quality degrades because by zooming, you are lowering the resolution. Much the same way a digital picture will degrade when you zoom in on it.
I'm being a bit harsh because it amazes me that someone would spend thousands of dollars and NOT research the technology they are buying. I'm also amazed that an intelligent person would not grasp the simple geometry of aspect ratios and not understand why it would be BAD to crop movies to fit on your screen.
But I see the future... and it is filled with a new format. Instead of 4:3 pan and scan, we will have 16:9 pan and scan. And it's a shame that DVD makers will continue to butcher movies to please folks who don't understand simple geometry and artisic value.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
I never even thought of that! But I'd put money on the fact that you are very correct. :|
I've run into a lot of people that think that to obtain a widescreen DVD, they're actually chopping off the top and bottom of the picture. In their mind full screen is the exact transfer and it's only through massive manipulation that they achieve widescreen. Most of my girlfriend's family thought this until I set them straight, now they only buy widescreen. I guess I can see how they could make that mistake having been around VHS without an option for so long but I hate watching movies that weren't transferred at the original aspect ratio.
I just thought of that too, right before you posted it. As much as I hope it isn't correct, I'm sure it is.
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