How come they don't port more apps to QT?

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
I think some effort is needed form the KDE team...

I mean...KDE looks SO good with the liquid skin and the crystal icons...its beautiful. But there are so many projects that don't take advantage of these things. For example, mozilla and OpenOffice are both great apps, but look out fo place when used in KDE. if the KDE team (or a distro maker) could port them so they look like native apps, that'd be freaking great!

 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
I think some effort is needed form the KDE team...

I mean...KDE looks SO good with the liquid skin and the crystal icons...its beautiful. But there are so many projects that don't take advantage of these things. For example, mozilla and OpenOffice are both great apps, but look out fo place when used in KDE. if the KDE team (or a distro maker) could port them so they look like native apps, that'd be freaking great!

This is what I hate about the people on this site who are always saying "openb source software is the best thing ever", "Open source is better cause you can modify the code yourself if you want a new feature" "I want to have sex with open source software" etc.

They're all talk. You want to port it to QT? Go right ahead, no one's stopping you, you might even get someone to help you. You realize the people making these apps aren't getting paid, right? you realize they give them away for free? You realize that the success of an open source community relies on people actually writing open source software?

Go back to your "open source rocks, but I've never actually participated in any open source projects and probably never will" world now.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,358
4,114
136
STFU notfred. Did it ever occur to you most people aren't software developers? Or even QA testers for that matter. EVEN the geek population here on ATOT. Most of them are just Wintel PC-building geeks.

His question is totally about software toolkit evangelism, not whether you are the most 1337 Perl coder on the block. Your response was off topic & uncalled for.

A person can appreciate good software (free or otherwise) without having any ability to participate in the development process. In fact, millions of people do every day.
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
Originally posted by: manly
STFU notfred. Did it ever occur to you most people aren't software developers? Or even QA testers for that matter. EVEN the geek population here on ATOT. Most of them are just Wintel PC-building geeks.

I realize that. If more of them were software developers, maybe we'd have more QT apps, huh? Or, I'm sure that if he wanted, he could hire someone to get mozilla running under QT. None of these people will though. They expect web browsers to be free. They want other people to devote thier skills and thier time to making software. They EXPECT this software to be available for free. They won't invest any money or any time into it, and then they complain that the software doesn't do what they want.

If we were talking about cars, would you keep the same opinion?

Wintel box building geek - "My hondai doesn't have have power windows. I think the engineers at hondai should install them for free".

notfred - "If you want power windows, install them yourself"

manly - "That was uncalled for, it's way to much to expect someone to either 1) pay someone to install power windows for him, or 2) learn how to install them himself"

 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: MartyTheManiak
I think some effort is needed form the KDE team...

I mean...KDE looks SO good with the liquid skin and the crystal icons...its beautiful. But there are so many projects that don't take advantage of these things. For example, mozilla and OpenOffice are both great apps, but look out fo place when used in KDE. if the KDE team (or a distro maker) could port them so they look like native apps, that'd be freaking great!

This is what I hate about the people on this site who are always saying "openb source software is the best thing ever", "Open source is better cause you can modify the code yourself if you want a new feature" "I want to have sex with open source software" etc.

They're all talk. You want to port it to QT? Go right ahead, no one's stopping you, you might even get someone to help you. You realize the people making these apps aren't getting paid, right? you realize they give them away for free? You realize that the success of an open source community relies on people actually writing open source software?

Go back to your "open source rocks, but I've never actually participated in any open source projects and probably never will" world now.

1. My meagre java skills would be useless to any project. If I could do port apps, I would do it.
2. I'd be nice if I could hire someone, but I have more important things to spend money on...like...university education perhaps.
3. Have some weed, mellow out. It was only a fscking suggestion, no need to go postal on me.
 

pac1085

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2000
3,456
0
76
Mozilla and OpenOffice are huge projects designed to be multi-platform so I'd imagine that getting them running under Qt would be almost impossible. Mozilla is based on GTK, isnt it? The KDE Team has enough work to do already, if you want a Mozilla-based Qt browser, perhaps you could make one like Galeon, but in Qt. I wouldnt be suprised if a few already exist.

I've written a few trivial programs in Qt and I really like it. The problem with getting all apps with Qt(or whatever else you want here) is that alot of people like GTK better than Qt, alot like Qt better than GTK, and so on. Its like Gnome vs KDE.
 

Ameesh

Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
23,686
1
0
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bmacd

Lifer
Jan 15, 2001
10,869
1
0
Originally posted by: notfred
Originally posted by: manly
STFU notfred. Did it ever occur to you most people aren't software developers? Or even QA testers for that matter. EVEN the geek population here on ATOT. Most of them are just Wintel PC-building geeks.

I realize that. If more of them were software developers, maybe we'd have more QT apps, huh? Or, I'm sure that if he wanted, he could hire someone to get mozilla running under QT. None of these people will though. They expect web browsers to be free. They want other people to devote thier skills and thier time to making software. They EXPECT this software to be available for free. They won't invest any money or any time into it, and then they complain that the software doesn't do what they want.

If we were talking about cars, would you keep the same opinion?

Wintel box building geek - "My hondai doesn't have have power windows. I think the engineers at hondai should install them for free".

notfred - "If you want power windows, install them yourself"

manly - "That was uncalled for, it's way to much to expect someone to either 1) pay someone to install power windows for him, or 2) learn how to install them himself"


Notfred does make valid points. I'm a supporter of the linux community, but i'll probably never improve upon linux myself by "debugging code" or programming in my own stuff. I don't think that Notfred went completely off the wall, i'm sure he's just tired of linux peeps (or wanna-be linux people) always bitching for help when google is just a click away. I'm a hypocrite, b/c i know how to use google...but it's easier when somebody spoon feeds it to you and does all the hard work for you.

-=bmacd=-
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
Originally posted by: Vortex
Mozilla and OpenOffice are huge projects designed to be multi-platform so I'd imagine that getting them running under Qt would be almost impossible. Mozilla is based on GTK, isnt it? The KDE Team has enough work to do already, if you want a Mozilla-based Qt browser, perhaps you could make one like Galeon, but in Qt. I wouldnt be suprised if a few already exist.

I've written a few trivial programs in Qt and I really like it. The problem with getting all apps with Qt(or whatever else you want here) is that alot of people like GTK better than Qt, alot like Qt better than GTK, and so on. Its like Gnome vs KDE.

Well, not impossible apperantly. if you go to mac.openoffice.org you will see they they are porting it to MacOSX. So far only getting it to run, but they are planning to port it to aqua as well. Even though I know only a bit of programming, porting something to OSX+aqua seems a much bigger project than porting to QT....
 

Martin

Lifer
Jan 15, 2000
29,178
1
81
You know ameesh, WinXP has the same problem. Some apps use the new style, most don't and some use their own styles that look normal in 2k, but out-of-place in XP. Even MS' own programs suffer from that problem, something I find quite ironic.


It is one of the reasons why I dual boot MDK9 and win2k. WinXP looks like shiat, even with skins.

 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
13,358
4,114
136
It's always fun to consider analogies that don't exactly fit well with software.

But first, I'd have to say you're somewhat misunderstanding the spirit of free (or open source) software, as many developers see it. It ain't about free beer, the no-cost download, but about source transparency and community development leading to better software. I can download IE/WMP/etc. for gratis but I specifically choose not to support monopolies that break the law over a 10-year period. In your opinion, just because OSS is transparent means it's not okay for Marty to complain about Mozilla because source code is available. But is it fair to complain about IE since we pay a Winblows license and can NOT participate in the development? I know you didn't say that explicitly, but it seems to be a logical conclusion of your stance.

Back to the flawed analogy. Marty is saying he appreciates the qt toolkit and the KDE desktop and wonders why it isn't more popular with open source developers. He's not at all whining that developers won't adopt it for his benefit. That's why your response is ridiculous; you basically type cast him as a freeloading whining bizitch. Your analogy would be more accurate if you'd instead said,
Wintel box building geek - "My Honda doesn't have power windows; they really should add them to next year's model."

Just because software is easier to upgrade doesn't mean the user is whining about free & instant gratification. Furthermore, you assume that the implementation of power windows is already completed, and it's just a matter of payment for installation. Whereas in the case of software, the redesign and implementation do not even exist. A comparable response in the car situation would indeed be ludicrous if it was analogous to the software situation, "Marty, why don't you cut open the doors of your Honda and design your own power windows system from scratch? Or just fork over money to the ricer teenager down the street to figure it out." Obviously, either request (redesigning software or designing power windows from scratch) is prohibitively expensive.

At any rate, when I personally pay money to a Linux company, I don't expect them to do a thing for me down the road. It's a small token of gratitude for the release of good open-source software (I realize a large number of free software developers never see any of that revenue) and also support of fair competition in the marketplace. Yet my purchase makes me no more involved in free software development than the granny down the street who doesn't own a PC.

Free software or otherwise, people benefit from using software and complain about its shortcomings all the time. I don't see why they should be slammed if they don't actively participate in the process because the source code is transparent. As I touched upon earlier, you seem to place more emphasis on the economics of a download rather than the open, collaborate development model that's much more fundamental. If he's qualified, maybe Marty would get more involved in some capacity to promote qt over the Internet, but it's none of your or my business if he just wants to download & use the stuff. Nor if he expresses an interest in seeing specific features being developed that could enhance the experience.

Maybe you have cause to be annoyed at the stereotype you've portrayed, but I didn't see your response as commensurate to Marty's innocent question. At the worst, you could mock him for merely suggesting what the KDE team should do, but like he said, you're taking this overly seriously.
 

Fandu

Golden Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,341
0
0
HAHAHA, Owned!!

WTG manly.

Now everyone go back to their respective programming language and API and we'll all be friends. :)
 

notfred

Lifer
Feb 12, 2001
38,241
4
0
But first, I'd have to say you're somewhat misunderstanding the spirit of free (or open source) software, as many developers see it. It ain't about free beer, the no-cost download, but about source transparency and community development leading to better software. I can download IE/WMP/etc. for gratis but I specifically choose not to support monopolies that break the law over a 10-year period. In your opinion, just because OSS is transparent means it's not okay for Marty to complain about Mozilla because source code is available. But is it fair to complain about IE since we pay a Winblows license and can NOT participate in the development? I know you didn't say that explicitly, but it seems to be a logical conclusion of your stance.

It's fine if you don't weant to support monopolies, but by downloading mozilla and not working on the development, don't think that you're supporting the mozilla project. You're just leeching off the mozilla project, and that's fine, they expect most people to do that. However, if you want to complain about it, I don't think you can expect anyone to care if you're not working on development. These developers do this in thier spare time. They probably don't care about GTK. If they did, they probably wuld have used it in the first place. I wouldn't expect them to start doing QT development because someone who has contributed nothing thinks they should.

Back to the flawed analogy. Marty is saying he appreciates the qt toolkit and the KDE desktop and wonders why it isn't more popular with open source developers. He's not at all whining that developers won't adopt it for his benefit. That's why your response is ridiculous; you basically type cast him as a freeloading whining bizitch. Your analogy would be more accurate if you'd instead said,
Wintel box building geek - "My Honda doesn't have power windows; they really should add them to next year's model."

How about "My honda that was given to me for free doesn't have power windows, next year's model, which I expect to also be given to me for free, should have them." Sure, he can say that if he wants, but he provides absolutely no incentive for anyone to add power windows to the car. Now, if he were to go volunteer 10 hours a week at Honda, he could probably get power windows added to next years model.

Just because software is easier to upgrade doesn't mean the user is whining about free & instant gratification. Furthermore, you assume that the implementation of power windows is already completed, and it's just a matter of payment for installation. Whereas in the case of software, the redesign and implementation do not even exist. A comparable response in the car situation would indeed be ludicrous if it was analogous to the software situation, "Marty, why don't you cut open the doors of your Honda and design your own power windows system from scratch? Or just fork over money to the ricer teenager down the street to figure it out." Obviously, either request (redesigning software or designing power windows from scratch) is prohibitively expensive.

Well, that's true that there's more than tacking on a prebuilt component, but power windows, (and the GUI element of an app) are relatively small parts of the whole, and they can be designed and added onto a product without that much hassle. I'll turn your attention to chimera, which is a mozilla based browser using apple's cocoa interface for OS X

At any rate, when I personally pay money to a Linux company, I don't expect them to do a thing for me down the road. It's a small token of gratitude for the release of good open-source software (I realize a large number of free software developers never see any of that revenue) and also support of fair competition in the marketplace. Yet my purchase makes me no more involved in free software development than the granny down the street who doesn't own a PC.

Your purchase helps keeps progreammers employed, I'd say that contrbutes to software development.

Free software or otherwise, people benefit from using software and complain about its shortcomings all the time. I don't see why they should be slammed if they don't actively participate in the process because the source code is transparent. As I touched upon earlier, you seem to place more emphasis on the economics of a download rather than the open, collaborate development model that's much more fundamental. If he's qualified, maybe Marty would get more involved in some capacity to promote qt over the Internet, but it's none of your or my business if he just wants to download & use the stuff. Nor if he expresses an interest in seeing specific features being developed that could enhance the experience.

Maybe you have cause to be annoyed at the stereotype you've portrayed, but I didn't see your response as commensurate to Marty's innocent question. At the worst, you could mock him for merely suggesting what the KDE team should do, but like he said, you're taking this overly seriously.

Maybe you're right, I really don't have beef with marty or this question in particular, but the "open source is so great even though I'll never do any more than download stuff for free" attitude.
 

n0cmonkey

Elite Member
Jun 10, 2001
42,936
1
0
Linux is open source, not free (speech) ;)

What we give back to the open source community is support. Many of the open source and free software users here answer questions and write documentation day after day. Its not much, but its what I can do. I also purchase some of the software I use (whether it is available for download or not), and purchase all non-gratis software I use (currently Mac OS X is the only non-gratis software I use).

And I think the question of why developers dont use QT much is valid, as well as the minirants about how most open source users are leeches and should STFU.