how come resturants don't ID you when you pay by credit card? -nt

[5489]

because they'll do what they have to, to get the money

 

[ElKevbo]

<<

<< Per their Merchant Processing Agreement, most shops are not *allowed* to ask for your ID if you use a credit card. >>



That's crap. Nothing precludes the merchant from asking for ID. As a matter of fact, the merchant agreement isn't even between Visa or Mastercard and the store; it's with the issuing bank. Most simply choose not to because it's a hassle.

Russ, NCNE >>



Yes, you're right about the MPA being between a merchant and some other entity, such as a bank, and not Visa USA Inc or MasterCard Intl Inc. I mistakenly said "Visa" when I meant to say "Nova," a very large (the largest?) organization/company that provides this service for merchants.

However, I still stand by my statement that merchants are not allowed to ask for IDs. Pemirt me to quote from Nova's MPA as an example:

"...you will not require a Cardholder to provide personal information, such as a home or business telephone number, a home or business address, or a driver's license number, as a condition for honoring a Card."

Of course, other MPA's with organizations other than Nova may differ. But to the best of my knowledge, none of them differ in this particular area. If you know of one in particular that does, please enlighten me.

Please don't misunderstand me - I don't agree with this policy. I think that merchants should be *required* to check IDs for purchases made with credit cards. In fact, I have "Check ID" written where my signature is supposed to be on my Visa card.

But we're not talking about my desires or emotions. We're talking about how things *are* and not how they should be. As things stand, most merchants are expressly forbidden from asking for your ID or any other personal information if you try to use a credit card. That doesn't stop some of them (for which I'm somewhat glad), though.


Kevin

 

[Russ]

<< "...you will not require a Cardholder to provide personal information, such as a home or business telephone number, a home or business address, or a driver's license number, as a condition for honoring a Card." >>



You are misinterpreting that passage. It is a privacy exclusion. It does not say that you can't ask for ID, only that you can't ask for, and record specific details. I looked at a dozen agreements from a dozen providers before I set up my merchant account. None precluded checking ID. The merchant has a fundamental right to protect themselves against fraud.

In addition, if the above were a condition of every transaction, there would be no internet shopping. Further, most hardware transaction terminals now print the personal information on the receipt automatically.

Any provision that prevents a store from protecting itself would never stand up in court if challenged; particularly in light of the fact that, when fraud occurs, the first thing to processor tries to do is nail the vendor.

Russ, NCNE

 

[amnesiac]

I always checked ID for purchases over $100 at my last job. I forgot to do it once on a $250 order during the christmas season and some guy ended up payin with a stolen card.. I got yelled at a lot for that one. What kind of fiend gives his friends and family $250 of STOLEN gift certificates? What a jerk.

One of my friends went out and their party paid with a stolen card. That was really lame.

 

[ElKevbo]

<<

<< "...you will not require a Cardholder to provide personal information, such as a home or business telephone number, a home or business address, or a driver's license number, as a condition for honoring a Card." >>



You are misinterpreting that passage. It is a privacy exclusion. It does not say that you can't ask for ID, only that you can't ask for, and record specific details. I looked at a dozen agreements from a dozen providers before I set up my merchant account. None precluded checking ID. The merchant has a fundamental right to protect themselves against fraud. >>



With all due respect, I'm not the one that's misintepreting it. That is how Nova inteprets it, according to a close friend of mine who works for Nova and trains their customer service people (he literally wrote the book on customer service).



<< In addition, if the above were a condition of every transaction, there would be no internet shopping. Further, most hardware transaction terminals now print the personal information on the receipt automatically. >>



As I said, perhaps other MPA's are different. I sure haven't looked at them all to find out.



<< Any provision that prevents a store from protecting itself would never stand up in court if challenged; particularly in light of the fact that, when fraud occurs, the first thing to processor tries to do is nail the vendor. >>



I don't see what court challenges have to do with the discussion. Even if your accusation were true, then to go further and state that the court system would do the "right" thing and side with the merchants is not a forgone conclusion. I don't pretend to understand our legal system and I'm constantly surprised by the "wrong" decisions that are made every day.

I can't help but think that both of us are so completely ignorant of legal jargon that neither of us are qualified to actually read and understand an MPA. Lawyers tend to redefine common words to have specific legal meanings. I sure don't understand how you are supposed to verify that the cardholder is indeed the person to whom the card was issued without checking some sort of personal information. I have a vague feeling that the wording on these agreements is such that the MPA is covered in either case. Either you, the merchant, are screwed if you don't verify the cardholder's identity or you're screwed when you ask for the necessary information to verify their identity.


Kevin

 

[Russ]

<< I don't see what court challenges have to do with the discussion. >>



It is germane to the discussion because one cannot sign away legal rights in a contract. The merchant has a right to protect themselves, so the contract is not enforceable. Thus, a smart processing service would never require such a provision because they know it voids the contract. Now, perhaps Nova actually does preclude a merchant from checking ID (they'd be the only one I've ever heard of). Sooner or later, they'll be forced to cease doing so.

Russ, NCNE