Here is an estimate of the casualties that might have occurred if we had invaded mainland Japan......
A June 18 estimate from the military chiefs said that casualties in the first thirty days of the Kyushu invasion could be 31,000. Adm. King estimated 41,000. Adm. Nimitz said 49,000. MacArthur's staff said 50,000. Casualty estimates for Olympic and Coronet combined ranged from 220,000 to 500,000+.19
"I asked General Marshall what it would cost in lives to land on the Tokio plain and other places in Japan," Truman said later. "It was his opinion that such an invasion would cost at minimum one quarter of a million casualties and might cost as much as a million, on the American side alone, with an equal number of the enemy. The other military and naval men present agreed."20
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A June 18 estimate from the military chiefs said that casualties in the first thirty days of the Kyushu invasion could be 31,000. Adm. King estimated 41,000. Adm. Nimitz said 49,000. MacArthur's staff said 50,000. Casualty estimates for Olympic and Coronet combined ranged from 220,000 to 500,000+.19
"I asked General Marshall what it would cost in lives to land on the Tokio plain and other places in Japan," Truman said later. "It was his opinion that such an invasion would cost at minimum one quarter of a million casualties and might cost as much as a million, on the American side alone, with an equal number of the enemy. The other military and naval men present agreed."20
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Do you believe in global warming, as caused by the human race, and do you think steps should be taken to stop it?
If you do, then I advise you to re-evaluate your position. People earlier in this thread made statements that the USA dropping the Bomb on Japan was bad/wrong. Several people, including myself, brought up that estimates for the cost of the invasion called for large casualties. Now, if dropping the bombs were bad to do on an overall scale, it is because it killed more people than otherwise would have happened. Now, the people that draw up estimates dont pull their thumb out of their ass, smear it on a sheet of paper, and guess at how many men are going to be killed. They looked at how the Japanese soldiers fought on Iwo Jima, looked at our casualties, looked at theirs, looked at relative strength, etc. To dismiss things like this as "guesses", "we cant be totally sure unless it actually happened", is rather funny. I say its funny, because most people who talk about the invasion estimates are also running around yelling about global warming, and how the ice caps are going to be the size of Rhode Island in 100 years.
Operation Downfall
Admiral William Leahy estimated that there would be more than 250,000 Americans killed or wounded on Kyushu alone. General Charles Willoughby, chief of intelligence for General Douglas MacArthur, the Supreme Commander of the Southwest Pacific, estimated American casualties would be one million men by the fall of 1946. Willoughby's own intelligence staff considered this to be a conservative estimate.
Invasion Plans
"The first amphibious assault was to take place on 1 November, 1945 on Kyushu with a second landing scheduled for 1 March, 1946 on Honshu. With an army of 2 million men and a force of some 8,000 aircraft remaining, the Japanese retained sufficient strength to make an invasion extremely costly. Military advisors to president Truman estimated that an invasion of Japan would cost between 250,000 and one million Allied casualties, plus an equal number for the enemy. Fortunately, for the peoples of all nations involved, the inestimable carnage in human lives was not necessary. "
SHOULD THE ATOMIC-BOMB HAVE BEEN DROPPED ON HIROSHIMA?
8) From June to beginning of August 1945, the six members of Japan's ruling council are split (3 yes; 3 no) on whether to give unconditional surrender to Allies. Even after the Hiroshima bomb is dropped (Aug. 6), they are still split 3 to 3; 3 still insist must have Emperor's sovereignty after war. On Aug. 9, Emperor insists to council, Japan must surrender. (Also Aug. 9 - Nagasaki bomb dropped.) On Aug. 14, Emperor announces to Japan that they will surrender on Allies terms.
--350,000 Purple Hearts were made between Mar-Aug. 1945, in preparation for the Japanese Invasion. Military still has a surplus.
how bout...
absolute power corrupts absolutely.
and
might doesnt make right. (all too often it makes wrong - see above)
Because pride blinds us to our own fatal flaws, bringing about our own self-inflicted destruction. Haughtiness guarantess our eventual fall. Ask the Romans.
The more powerful one is, the more humble and self-effacing one should be.
Roosters strut. Eagles have no need to impress.
It is amazing what lengths some people will go to try to rationalize the targeting of civilians and the dropping of atomic bombs on them. Its also very easy and comfortable for them to say these things, as they have probably never spoken with someone who has been victimized by war. War sucks. Period. The loss of human life is a horrible thing. Its not a football game or something that only happens thousands of miles away. Out of sight, out of mind, huh? I think that whenever we make arguments about what is justified or not on here, we should not forget that the fate of the entire world is in the hands of a select few. The choices that this select few makes has little adverse consequences on them personally, no, it is the average person on the street that is more concerned about putting food on the table and saving for his child's education, a person who has no political power - that ends up suffering.
Our presidents, prime ministers, and dictators all have air conditioned bunkers to go and hide in when the sh*t heads south. 99.9999% of the population of any country does not. And those are the very people that have very little, if anything, to do with why they were attacked in the first place. Any one of us on here could have been born into another country, such as Iraq, North Korea, Afghanistan, or Japan. It is nothing more than a matter of fate that we were born here or that we had the resources to come here if we weren't. But every human being has pride, and whether we were born in a "Great" country like the United States, or a "Sh*tty" country like Iraq, we love our country. It doesn't matter if your country has new shiny buildings and straight roads or if it is made up of mud huts and crooked gravel roads, it is HOME, and you'll be damned if anyone tries to destroy it. Whether we live in a free democratic country or we live under the rule of a ruthless dictator, we love our country. Love of our country does not mean love of our government. A country is much more than who runs it, it is the people, the land, the culture, and the traditions. But most of all, it is home. No one wants to see the house that their father built with his hands, or the neighborhood that their children grew up in - destroyed by some bombs from anyone, let alone someone that they know very little about that comes from some land 8,000 miles away. You guys [and gals] can justify this war all you want to yourselves and to others, but please don't lose sight of this.
Before I get personally attacked, yet again, let me say this: Personally, I love this country, but do not love our government.
Our presidents, prime ministers, and dictators all have air conditioned bunkers to go and hide in when the sh*t heads south. 99.9999% of the population of any country does not. And those are the very people that have very little, if anything, to do with why they were attacked in the first place. Any one of us on here could have been born into another country, such as Iraq, North Korea, Afghanistan, or Japan. It is nothing more than a matter of fate that we were born here or that we had the resources to come here if we weren't. But every human being has pride, and whether we were born in a "Great" country like the United States, or a "Sh*tty" country like Iraq, we love our country. It doesn't matter if your country has new shiny buildings and straight roads or if it is made up of mud huts and crooked gravel roads, it is HOME, and you'll be damned if anyone tries to destroy it. Whether we live in a free democratic country or we live under the rule of a ruthless dictator, we love our country. Love of our country does not mean love of our government. A country is much more than who runs it, it is the people, the land, the culture, and the traditions. But most of all, it is home. No one wants to see the house that their father built with his hands, or the neighborhood that their children grew up in - destroyed by some bombs from anyone, let alone someone that they know very little about that comes from some land 8,000 miles away. You guys [and gals] can justify this war all you want to yourselves and to others, but please don't lose sight of this.
Before I get personally attacked, yet again, let me say this: Personally, I love this country, but do not love our government.
As long as you don't plagiarize someone's work.........
War is hell and you fight to win with any means available to you. Of course you wouldn't know anything about that.
It is easy for civilians say "awww, we should hurt civilians, blah, blah, blah" while they are sitting in a cafe sipping their coffee.
As for the topic of being proud that we could kick everyone's butt........Whatever, all I know is that there are lot of dead and injured
military people just so we can be proud of our country's might, but yet some of our veterans are homeless and ignored.
Because we can't.
Both the Soviet Union and China are capable of destroying this country with nuclear weapons just the same as we can destroy theirs. Well, the Soviet Union can. China may or may not be able to wipe us out but we would be so devastated that we would no longer be a world power.
As for invasion, thats a draw. They have no real chance of sucessfully invading us but we wouldn't stand a chance in hell of taking Moscow or Beijing either.
So no, we can't kick everyone else's butts.
"They were conquerors, and for that you want only brute force--nothing to boast of, when you have it,since your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others"-Joseph Conradin Heart of Darkness
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