How come more Americans aren't proud we can kick everyone else's butts?

[StinkyMeat]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jmman
It always amazes me how so many people "hate" it here. If it is so damn bad, why are you still here? It's like spinach. You absolutely hate it, but you eat it for every meal while screaming how bad it is.......😕

The US is not perfect, nor will it ever be perfect in the eyes of 100% of the population, but it is the best thing going on this planet.........😛

Nobody is saying it's bad, some are just saying that it is foolish to take pride in the fact that we can " kick everyone else's butts". In fact I believe that only those who serve in the Military or have served in the Military would be justified in having pride in our Military because they are or were actually part of it. The rest of us should feel gratitude towards them for being part of a Military that enables our freedom.

And don't forget it's this sense of fooish arrogance that triggered 9-11.

 

[Jmman]

I agree 100% Red, but there are some people in this forum who truly despise this country so badly that I wouldn't be surprised to see them supporting terrorists......

As far as the original post, that seems a little childish to me.......

Reminds me of the Minnesota bumper stickers.."My governor can beat up your governor"......

 

[CraigRT]

do you REALLY think the states can level everyone else? I am absolutely NOT confident of that.
with all the nations in the world that don't like the States, I am sure if they wanted, they could wreck the US.
I wouldn't really be too confident over there.. 😛

 

[Pepsi90919]

Originally posted by: LordJezo
Hell.. I am proud to be in the strongest country in the world.

Sure beats being in one that someone else could trample on at any time.

because more americans have more dignity than that.

 

[Corn]

It's sad that glory is frowned upon these days.

There is no "glory" in war, not in this day and age.

While I understand the romanticism of battles as told by soldiers from a bygone era, I hope that we have evolved enough to understand that glory also walks hand in hand with horror--especially directed toward the civilian population on the losing side who were routinely raped, murdered, and enslaved.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Jmman
I agree 100% Red, but there are some people in this forum who despise this country so badly that I wouldn't be surprised to see them supporting terrorists......

As far as the original post, that seems a little childish to me.......

Reminds me of the Minnesota bumper stickers.."My governor can beat up your governor"......

Don't mistaken mistrust of our Government and our leaders as dislike for our country. What is being said about Bush was said about Clinton, the Real Bush, Reagan and so on.

I am proud of those who serve in our military as I feel they are the best of what America has to offer (much more so that us loudmouths here at ATOT or elsehwere on the internet) Anybody willing to sacrifices their lives for our freedoms are tops in my book!

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: Jmman
It always amazes me how so many people "hate" it here. If it is so damn bad, why are you still here? It's like spinach. You absolutely hate it, but you eat it for every meal while screaming how bad it is.......😕

The US is not perfect, nor will it ever be perfect in the eyes of 100% of the population, but it is the best thing going on this planet.........😛

Hate it? You have got to be kidding. True citizens vote, engage in productive debate, volunteer their time, express their opinions. There have been plenty of things this nation has done to be embarrassed about, and these things are brought to light because they voice their opinions.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Corn

It's sad that glory is frowned upon these days.

There is no "glory" in war, not in this day and age.

While I understand the romanticism of battles as told by soldiers from a bygone era, I hope that we have evolved enough to understand that glory also walks hand in hand with horror--especially directed toward the civilian population on the losing side who were routinely raped, murdered, and enslaved.

Right on Corn. It seems like some people today (like Lord Jizo) still think of war as some grand adventure as if it were like the days of Teddy Roosevelt leading his Rough Riders up San Juan Hill aginst the Spanish who started running for their lives as soon as they saw "Old Glory".

I wonder how many of you are prepared to watch the Nightly News report about hundreds if not thousands of US Causulties in this war with Iraq? The last two conflicts, The Gulf War and the NATO actions in the Balkans were more like a Video game than a real war. Maybe this next war will be like that, but in all likelyhood it won't.

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Jmman
I agree 100% Red, but there are some people in this forum who despise this country so badly that I wouldn't be surprised to see them supporting terrorists......

As far as the original post, that seems a little childish to me.......

Reminds me of the Minnesota bumper stickers.."My governor can beat up your governor"......

Don't mistaken mistrust of our Government and our leaders as dislike for our country. What is being said about Bush was said about Clinton, the Real Bush, Reagan and so on.

I am proud of those who serve in our military as I feel they are the best of what America has to offer (much more so that us loudmouths here at ATOT or elsehwere on the internet) Anybody willing to sacrifices their lives for our freedoms are tops in my book!

EXACTLY, there is a difference between the governments policy and the country and the people...

You can disagree with the government, that is one of the things that makes US great...

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Jmman
The only acceptable option was unconditional surrender. I don't think you "negotiate" after everything that had taken place, ie Pearl Harbor, massive US casualties, executed POW's, etc. Japan wanted to keep their leaders and their military intact. Kind of reminds me of the end of WW1(Germany), and look where that got us......😛

I hope your being sarcastic with that last remark. WWI got you WWII because the allies forced unconditional surrender on Germany.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Jmman
The only acceptable option was unconditional surrender. I don't think you "negotiate" after everything that had taken place, ie Pearl Harbor, massive US casualties, executed POW's, etc. Japan wanted to keep their leaders and their military intact. Kind of reminds me of the end of WW1(Germany), and look where that got us......😛

I hope your being sarcastic with that last remark. WWI got you WWII because the allies forced unconditional surrender on Germany.

while it is now considered stupid the terms of the treaty of versailles were not without precedent.

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Jmman
The only acceptable option was unconditional surrender. I don't think you "negotiate" after everything that had taken place, ie Pearl Harbor, massive US casualties, executed POW's, etc. Japan wanted to keep their leaders and their military intact. Kind of reminds me of the end of WW1(Germany), and look where that got us......😛

I hope your being sarcastic with that last remark. WWI got you WWII because the allies forced unconditional surrender on Germany.

while it is now considered stupid the terms of the treaty of versailles were not without precedent.

So why would Japan consider a similar fate?

 

[Corn]

The Gulf War and the NATO actions in the Balkans were more like a Video game than a real war. Maybe this next war will be like that, but in all likelyhood it won't.

Most likely the inevitable war with Iraq will also be a turkey shoot. While I have no doubt that Saddam has loyal troops, his rule by fear and force will melt as soon as they people realize there is no possibility that Saddam will prevail. The Iraqi people aren't stupid, as evidenced by the mass surrender of their troops during the first gulf war. They weren't willing to die for Saddam then, I'm betting they aren't willing to today either.

Either way, this war will not be filled with "glory", and innocent people will still suffer and die for it. My hope is that we ultimately do right by these people and give them the opportunity for the freedom they have been denied. I don't think they'll hate us for liberating them, no doubt they will though if we leave them hanging out to dry for then next wanna be tyrant.

 

[Corn]

So why would Japan consider a similar fate?

Well, they did now didn't they?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Corn

The Gulf War and the NATO actions in the Balkans were more like a Video game than a real war. Maybe this next war will be like that, but in all likelyhood it won't.

Most likely the inevitable war with Iraq will also be a turkey shoot. While I have no doubt that Saddam has loyal troops, his rule by fear and force will melt as soon as they people realize there is no possibility that Saddam will prevail. The Iraqi people aren't stupid, as evidenced by the mass surrender of their troops during the first gulf war. They weren't willing to die for Saddam then, I'm betting they aren't willing to today either.

Either way, this war will not be filled with "glory", and innocent people will still suffer and die for it. My hope is that we ultimately do right by these people and give them the opportunity for the freedom they have been denied. I don't think they'll hate us for liberating them, no doubt they will though if we leave them hanging out to dry for then next wanna be tyrant.

After we squish Hussien and his Baath party we will have to deal with the sectarian fighting between the Shiites and Sunni Muslims not to mention the Kurds who have already set up an autonomous governement in Northern Iraq, much to the chagrin of our Turkish Allies. The only thing that will make this less of a headache than Viet Nam was for us is that some of these groups will not be supplied arms and advisors from the Soviet Union or the ChiComs.

 

[SherEPunjab]

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: hagbard

Originally posted by: Mookow

Originally posted by: SherEPunjab

Originally posted by: dudleydocker
<<"And yeah, a ton of restraint was shown in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ">>

Are you being sarcastic? If so, consider how many lives (American and Japanese) would have been lost if the US pursued the alternative, namely an all-out assault on maniland Japan.

Gee good point. Never heard that argument before. The fact is that is a possibility. We DON'T know. But we do know that. About 100,000 died in Hiroshima and about 70,000 ppl died in Nagasaki. I doubt conventional warfare would have killed that many Japanese.

Go do a little reading on the subject before you embarrass yourself further. That is all I will say unless you want me to start looking for links... from mainstream researchers, not one link from some idiot who also believes that we didnt actually land on the moon.

Are you aware that the Japanese tried to negotiate peace with the US prior to the A-bombs being dropped? Truman was more interested in impressing the Russians with US military might than preventing the deaths of innocent Japanese civilians.

The Japanese tried to negotiate a peace settlement that was quite unacceptable to the USA. If FDR had accepted their offer, he would have been impeached. The country was not at all happy about Pearl Harbor.

BTW, the way the Russians figured into Truman's plans was that he didnt want them to invade Japan and then, after the war, have to split Japan like we did with Germany. Nuking Japan was not done just so we could tell the world that our leader's penis is bigger than their leaders penis.

BTW, as clarification of my talking about SherEPunjab needing to do some research, I'm not disputing the casualty number from the nuclear bombs. I am disputing that no where have I ever seen a major source say the the USA casualties would be lower, never mind the USA + Japan's total casualties.

Any guess on American casualties had we not dropped the A bombs would be just that, a guess. Are you more concerned at looking at guesses or looking at facts Mookow? Are you also implying that a surrender on the part of Japan had there been a conventional war is out of the question? How can you put faith into something that is unknown when it comes to your argument that the casualties would have been more had we not done what we did, yet when others on here say maybe Japan would have surrendered mid-war (again, an uknown) that is out of the question.

 

[Corn]

The only thing that will make this less of a headache than Viet Nam was for us is that some of these groups will not be supplied arms and advisors from the Soviet Union or the ChiComs.

That and the landscape: defoliants not necessary. 😉

I agree with your last post. My greatest fear for the Iraqi people is that they may suffer a similar fate as endured by the people of Algeria when presented with "freedom".

 

[jteef]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jteef
It's sad that glory is frowned upon these days.

Exactly what does that have to do with the USA's Military Might?

It doesn't have anything to do with the USA's military might. It has to do with the public opinon of the military's might(see: topic).

Glory promotes courage and confidence across the populace. It gives the average man a good reason to exceed his goals.

Arrogance is always better than cowardice.
Victory is always better than defeat.

jt

 

[hagbard]

Originally posted by: Corn

So why would Japan consider a similar fate?

Well, they did now didn't they?

Yes, that or total annihilation.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jteef

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jteef
It's sad that glory is frowned upon these days.

Exactly what does that have to do with the USA's Military Might?

It doesn't have anything to do with the USA's military might. It has to do with the public opinon of the military's might(see: topic).

Glory promotes courage and confidence across the populace. It gives the average man a good reason to exceed his goals.

Arrogance is always better than cowardice.
Victory is always better than defeat.

jt

Who are you suppose to be, Sun Tzu?

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Corn

The Gulf War and the NATO actions in the Balkans were more like a Video game than a real war. Maybe this next war will be like that, but in all likelyhood it won't.

Most likely the inevitable war with Iraq will also be a turkey shoot. While I have no doubt that Saddam has loyal troops, his rule by fear and force will melt as soon as they people realize there is no possibility that Saddam will prevail. The Iraqi people aren't stupid, as evidenced by the mass surrender of their troops during the first gulf war. They weren't willing to die for Saddam then, I'm betting they aren't willing to today either.

Either way, this war will not be filled with "glory", and innocent people will still suffer and die for it. My hope is that we ultimately do right by these people and give them the opportunity for the freedom they have been denied. I don't think they'll hate us for liberating them, no doubt they will though if we leave them hanging out to dry for then next wanna be tyrant.

Man did you double nut last night or something? You seem really nice and co-hearant today in all your posts. I agree 100%.

Like Saudi Iraq is controlled by about 20,000 aristocratic members and the rest of the popluation will be singing in the streets once they are liberated.

 

[jteef]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jteef

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jteef
It's sad that glory is frowned upon these days.

Exactly what does that have to do with the USA's Military Might?

It doesn't have anything to do with the USA's military might. It has to do with the public opinon of the military's might(see: topic).

Glory promotes courage and confidence across the populace. It gives the average man a good reason to exceed his goals.

Arrogance is always better than cowardice.
Victory is always better than defeat.

jt

Who are you suppose to be, Sun Tzu?

Clearly

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jteef

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jteef
It's sad that glory is frowned upon these days.

Exactly what does that have to do with the USA's Military Might?

It doesn't have anything to do with the USA's military might. It has to do with the public opinon of the military's might(see: topic).

Glory promotes courage and confidence across the populace. It gives the average man a good reason to exceed his goals.

Arrogance is always better than cowardice.
Victory is always better than defeat.

jt

Who are you suppose to be, Sun Tzu?

Sun Tzu is not a person

 

[Soybomb]

Corn's post was awesome and I agree with it 100% Sadly many people still seem to thing that war is valiant, noble, and desire it.

I'm generally pleased to be living in this country, but I don't think our military strength is someone to be thought of in the manner you describe.

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: dudleydocker
<<"And yeah, a ton of restraint was shown in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ">>

Are you being sarcastic? If so, consider how many lives (American and Japanese) would have been lost if the US pursued the alternative, namely an all-out assault on maniland Japan.

Original estimates by his generals were around 60,000, max, US soldiers.