How come everyone gets to vote...

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Wapp

Golden Member
Jun 5, 2003
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Let's pull a Heinlein and only allow military vets to vote. Service guarantees citizenship.
 

AbsolutDealage

Platinum Member
Dec 20, 2002
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Originally posted by: Reel
Originally posted by: BoomerD
OK, using your rant as a basis...why do I have to pay school taxes levied on my property? I have no kids living at home. I'm being taxed for something I can't/don't use....

Paying for school is a weak complaint. The benefts will come back to you in many forms. While you may not be receiving an immediate and direct benefit, you do receive many long-term and indirect benefits.

I also pay for public schools which I do not use... and I think it's a bunch of crap. My property taxes went up by over 30% this year. I don't have kids, and even if I did, I would be sending them to private school.

I really don't understand passing the burden of education costs on to all land owners. I understand that some people may not be able to send their kids to a private school... but that's hardly enough justification to force everyone in the community to support them.
 

paulney

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2003
6,909
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Originally posted by: bctbct
renters pay property tax every month, they give the money to the landlord and he sends it in for them 2X a year

They pay disproprotionately to what the landowners pay.
The tax is per parcel of land. How many apartments are there in a typical apartment complex? How many people live in a typical family house?

In the end, they pay the same $50, $80, $100 - whatever. However, the impact on a family house is much higher than on renters.
 

paulney

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2003
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Originally posted by: waggy
while it does seem like homeowners get screwed. it is not as bad as you make it out.

though renting a 2 bedroom 1100sq ft apartment is 500 a month. so 6k a year. for the same size house taxes are nearly $3500 ...

You omit mortage payments, cost of maintenance, insurance, lots of other crap.
Yes, having a property is an investment (not a guranteed one), but a pile of parcel taxes affects the landowners much more than renters.

 

paulney

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2003
6,909
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Originally posted by: huberm
I guess I don't understand the logic that if someone pays taxes they gain the privilege to vote. Not everyone is as blessed as you and has enough money to pay taxes.

That is why during the history of democracies, qualifications (on property, etc) were established. If you want to decide on something, you have to have an interest in it as well, such as: be part of those who get to execute, pay for or benefit from the choice.

 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
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fobot.com
Originally posted by: Wapp
Let's pull a Heinlein and only allow military vets to vote. Service guarantees citizenship.

my idea was to give veterans a second vote

so "normal" people get one vote, military vets get two votes
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
15
81
fobot.com
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: FoBoT
lets dump the < 21 year olds first, repleal the 26th amendment

Heh, as long as they raise the military enlistment age to 21 as well there'd be at least some support for it.

there is no draft, 17 year old can enlist with parental permission, i don't see them crying about not being able to vote, but being in the military
 

r6ashih

Senior member
May 29, 2003
667
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Originally posted by: AbsolutDealage
Originally posted by: Reel
Originally posted by: BoomerD
OK, using your rant as a basis...why do I have to pay school taxes levied on my property? I have no kids living at home. I'm being taxed for something I can't/don't use....

Paying for school is a weak complaint. The benefts will come back to you in many forms. While you may not be receiving an immediate and direct benefit, you do receive many long-term and indirect benefits.

I also pay for public schools which I do not use... and I think it's a bunch of crap. My property taxes went up by over 30% this year. I don't have kids, and even if I did, I would be sending them to private school.

I really don't understand passing the burden of education costs on to all land owners. I understand that some people may not be able to send their kids to a private school... but that's hardly enough justification to force everyone in the community to support them.

How does your property tax go up 30%? In california it is fixed based on the price you bought it for: 1.25% x saleprice.

Also you indirectly benefit from the public schools by having an educated productive youth. otherwise the kids would turn the place into a ghetto.

 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
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Originally posted by: paulney
Originally posted by: waggy
while it does seem like homeowners get screwed. it is not as bad as you make it out.

though renting a 2 bedroom 1100sq ft apartment is 500 a month. so 6k a year. for the same size house taxes are nearly $3500 ...

You omit mortage payments, cost of maintenance, insurance, lots of other crap.
Yes, having a property is an investment (not a guranteed one), but a pile of parcel taxes affects the landowners much more than renters.

yes. i was trying to show the disparity between taxes and renting.

with a house and apartment the same size taxes alone are almost the cost of rent $3500 vs $6k).

even then my numbers are far off. im using the price i paid for the apartment like 8 years ago vs what i know taxes are today on a house that size.

called my sister-in-law that has a 1200 sq ft apartment. she is paying $725/month so the numbers would be higher.
 

paulney

Diamond Member
Sep 24, 2003
6,909
1
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How does your property tax go up 30%? In california it is fixed based on the price you bought it for: 1.25% x saleprice.

First of all, the properties change in value, and re-assessed annually (at least they don't use market values or it'd be nuts). Second, there's a pile of assessments on top of tax - just look at the bill that is sent out. As voters approve more and more propositions for funding something by taxing the parcels of land, your bill will grow.


 

huberm

Golden Member
Dec 17, 2004
1,105
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I remember seeing online somewhere a spreadsheet a guy maintained for a year of ALL the taxes he paid out (ie even telecom taxes, etc). At the end of the year it ended up being over 50% of his income.

It is ridiculous the amount of money that is taken in taxes, and yet they can't even balance their budget with the massive amount they get. We are in a time of double, triple, quadruple taxation.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
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Originally posted by: FoBoT
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: FoBoT
lets dump the < 21 year olds first, repleal the 26th amendment

Heh, as long as they raise the military enlistment age to 21 as well there'd be at least some support for it.

there is no draft, 17 year old can enlist with parental permission, i don't see them crying about not being able to vote, but being in the military

I only brought it up because the amendment mostly came about because 18 year olds were fighting in Vietnam but unable to vote the course of the nation they fought for.
 

bctbct

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2005
4,868
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Originally posted by: paulney
Originally posted by: bctbct
renters pay property tax every month, they give the money to the landlord and he sends it in for them 2X a year

They pay disproprotionately to what the landowners pay.
The tax is per parcel of land. How many apartments are there in a typical apartment complex? How many people live in a typical family house?

In the end, they pay the same $50, $80, $100 - whatever. However, the impact on a family house is much higher than on renters.



Actually taxes mill levies on single family dwellings differ than taxes on multi family dwellings. I know someone who ownes a mini storage place and he pays 26k a year in property taxes...and no kids live there.