How can you ignore the facts ?

[Morbius]

I read with great interest all the posts concerning different theories about whether Iraq had WMDs or not. Everyone seems to ignore the FACT that Iraq used WMDs on its own people (ie poison gas used on the Kurds). We also seem to ignore the FACT that after Desert Storm, Iraq listed in documents to the UN all the WMDs and WMD components that they had. The list was quite long and extensive. To date, Iraq has not supplied one shred of evidence that they destroyed these weapons and weapon components that they admitted having. Did they just flush them down the drain? Or did they move them to more friendly surroundings that were getting less scrutiny (ie Syria, Iran, etc)? Or, given 10 years or so to hide them, are they still in Iraq - most of which we do not have control of at this time (I have talked with soldiers that have come back from Iraq and contrary to what the news media might lead you to believe, we control only a small portion of the country). Given 10 years and a country the size of California, I would bet a large sum of money that I could hide stuff so well you wouldn't find it for years unless you managed to get your hands on a good informant.

In any case, no one has ever explained what Iraq did with the WMDs it admitted having and until we account for those, I have to believe they still exist.
And that bothers me, even if it doesn't bother you.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Shhhhh... Using logic around here is against the rules.

:beer: for you anyway

CkG

 

[Orsorum]

We supposedly knew where it all was at one point. I am still waiting for that morsel of irrefutable evidence to come in handy.

 

[Moonbeam]

With a name like Morbius I'm sure it would bother you. Have you tried therapy?

 

[Witling]

Morbius,

Against conspiracy theorists, reason availeth not. When the Irqi government was using poison gas, they were receiving tons of help from us. Not with the poison gas but certainly with satellite intelligence. We know they had poison gas because we had the receipts to prove it.

Second, this war wasn't advanced on the theory that he used to have it and hasn't been able to show that he got rid of it. One of the many alternative theories on which it was advanced was that he had weapons of mass destruction. If you read the foreign press, most of the world thought that this was nonsense. Score at the end of six months: Rest of the world 1, Bush Administration 0.

Finally, If you think going there on the flimsy evidence we had was OK (at the expenditure of $140 billion dollars if this request goes through), why didn't we instead go to North Korea, which everyone thinks is much more dangerous.

The thing that bothers me most about what the U.S. did is the attitude that they can single handedly (oops, Britain and a footnote of other helped) preemptively attack if they feel threatened. How would that work out if mainland China felt "threatened" by Taiwan? And Taiwan is about as threatening as Iraq was.

The fact of the matter is that we had to beat up on someone. Iraq was it. But here's a thought problem for you Morbius. How well has beating up on people worked for Israel?

 

[Witling]

Oh Yes. And I forgot add, do you know that we literally have tons of uranium for which we cannot accout?

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Originally posted by: Whitling

Score at the end of six months: Rest of the world 1, Bush Administration 0.

Germany -1; CNN -1; France -5; Saddam -10...0 doesn't look so bad after all.

 

[TravisT]

I think my analogy will fit well here.

You are in your house, someone calls the police on you, or atleast you know somehow that the police know that you have cocain stashed in your house worth thousands of dollars. Are you going to leave it where its at in your drawer or are you going to move it/get rid of it?

Saddam is stupid for creating them, but he's not going to be stupid enough to leave his Weapons laying around so we can find them easily. He has either gotten rid of them (yeah right) or stashed them somewhere where we are having a very hard time finding them. Possibly in another country?

This is not going to be something we find overnight. This will take time, but we do KNOW he had them at one point in time and was atleast well into the process of creating something bigger and stronger.

 

[Witling]

OK, Travis T. Are you aware that the the U.S. has ground penetrating radar? You can set if for various depths. And if you think I'm woofing, check it out with Google. Second, this guy was reported to have tons of this stuff. I'm sure we've been taking regular satellite observations of the country. After all, there was that famous "It's here." report before the war and when the newsies went there, NADA! ("Nada" means "nothing" in Spanish.

Second, are all you "He's got it" guys willing to set a final date on when we'll discover the weapons by or admit that theyt don't exist? Or is this going to be like the Lost Dutchman Mine -- still looking after all these years. Us guys who think there aren't any weapons are hampered by a well known experimental proposition, i.e., you can't prove that something doesn't exist. Come on Weapons Fans. Set a cutoff date. And then start researching crow recipes.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

Given he had 10 years to hide them, I propose 5 years to find them.

 

[xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx]

...since we will have someone in office for 5 more years who is willing to look for them.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Given he had 10 years to hide them, I propose 5 years to find them.

And yet we gave the UN inspectors oh about 6 months.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
...since we will have someone in office for 5 more years who is willing to look for them.

And we will still have troops there dying for 5 more years

 

[gistech1978]

forget about WMD for a second here
have we even found saddam? why dont we have his head on a pike parading it through baghdad?
how can you ignore THAT fact?

 

[Witling]

I can go with 5 years. We'll no doubt find something, but tons of stuff, no way.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: gistech1978
forget about WMD for a second here
have we even found saddam? why dont we have his head on a pike parading it through baghdad?
how can you ignore THAT fact?

Just like the WMDs, Faulty Intel!

 

[Witling]

As a Viet Nam vet, this looks very familiar to me. That's why I feel strongly on this subject. I'm also out on the left coast (East Bay Area). But that aside, here's a like to a company that does ground penetrating radar surveys. They can look 100 feet into the earth. Think he burried it deeper than that?

http://www.geomodel.com/

 

[daniel1113]

100 feet is nothing... only about 8 stories.

 

[DealMonkey]

Given that we claimed to KNOW Iraq had WMDs, how did we KNOW he had them if we didn't know WHERE THEY ARE?

 

[Tab]

dp

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Given that we claimed to KNOW Iraq had WMDs, how did we KNOW he had them if we didn't know WHERE THEY ARE?

Did you miss the part where Iraq Made a list of their WMDs? We did give them weapons around the 80's. If anyone has this list submitted to the UN I would like it very much.

Against conspiracy theorists, reason availeth not. When the Irqi government was using poison gas, they were receiving tons of help from us. Not with the poison gas but certainly with satellite intelligence. We know they had poison gas because we had the receipts to prove it.

Are you talking about during the Iraq-Iran war or after Desert Storm?

forget about WMD for a second here
have we even found saddam? why dont we have his head on a pike parading it through baghdad?
how can you ignore THAT fact?

Do we really need to even find him? How do you even know he is alive in the first place?

Oh Yes. And I forgot add, do you know that we literally have tons of uranium for which we cannot accout?

Really? Since we've losts some WMD's that makes it okay for Saddam to have lost his?

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Given that we claimed to KNOW Iraq had WMDs, how did we KNOW he had them if we didn't know WHERE THEY ARE?

exactly...

if iraq had WMD that would effect the US it would be easy to find. no matter how big iraq is.

we are not talking about a small RPG.

if they have WMD that can reach the US you would need a huge rocket and the platform to launch it. which is not going to be small.

with all the satalites that we have on iraq there should have been no problem with locating such things.

 

[flavio]

I wonder if morbius is aware of the FACT that the war was pushed through on the lie that Iraq was an "imminent threat" and that we had evidence of WMD and knew where at least some of them were?

Doesn't that bother you?

 

[rchiu]

Does people here have problem understanding knowing Iraq HAD WMD does not equal to knowing Iraq HAVE WMD?

Knowing Iraq had WMD only gives us a reason to suspect they have WMD now. The WMD could be expired, lost, used, destroyed or hidden. It does not automatically make it a fact that Iraq have WMD now.

If you can live with killing thousands of Iraqi, sacrificing hundreds of your own country man and spending hundred of billions of your tax dollar based on just suspicion, well that's fine. Maybe the rest of the America have a little more decency and the intelligence to know it when they are lied to.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: flavio
I wonder if morbius is aware of the FACT that the war was pushed through on the lie that Iraq was an "imminent threat" and that we had evidence of WMD and knew where at least some of them were?

Doesn't that bother you?

Please quit twisting the statement about the "imminent threat". Please go back and look what was said about the "imminent threat". Something about ...before they became an imminent threat

CkG