According to my fiancee who uses a Visa Check Card, all it does is allow her to use her ATM/Debit card at places that do not accept POS ATM purchases. To them it looks like a credit card, but on the backend, the money is yoinked from her account the same whether it is an ATM POS purchase or if it's a "Credit Card" purchase.
According to my fiancee who uses a Visa Check Card, all it does is allow her to use her ATM/Debit card at places that do not accept POS ATM purchases. To them it looks like a credit card, but on the backend, the money is yoinked from her account the same whether it is an ATM POS purchase or if it's a "Credit Card" purchase.
Originally posted by: Vic
A $5 tip on $26.65 is 18.76%. While maybe not a fat tip, it's hardly skimpy. Above average actually.Originally posted by: ISO
Next time don't skimp on the tip.
This was not a temporary "Authorization" either. Restaurants are not allowed to do that to make sure you "can cover the tip." Tipping, except in cases of larger parties and when expressly stated on both the menu and included in the final bill, is not mandatory. There is no law that says people have to tip.
Gobadgrs, IMO you are the victim of a relatively common restaurant fraud, where your waitperson altered your debit card receipt to pad his/her tip. Did you remember to write down zero tip on the receipt and to write in the final amount? If not, I'm willing to bet it was done for you.
edit: and yes, this would have been a credit based transaction. I do these all the time with my Visa debit card.
Ugh! The amount authorized was $31.98, not $31.65. The amount authorized was exactly 20% more than the bill of $26.65. If restaurants aren't allowed to get a pre-authorization, then why do so many that I know of do so?
How common do you think this tip padding restaurant fraud is? A good server in the right restaurant already makes a good chunk of change, so why would they do something so stupid? To get fired over $5.33? I'm sure it's happened, but it's not common.
Like I said, wait until the charge posts to the permanent account balance, NOT the available balance. The approval amount and the actual transaction amount are two completely different things. This is how it works.
Have you ever paid for gas at a pump's built in credit card acceptor and seen pending charge for only $1.00? Then what happens? The real charge posts 1-3 days later for the exact amount you pumped. It's for the same reason, which is that the approval amount is completely independent of the charge amount.
The restaurant's credit card machine does this pre-authorization automatically, and I doubt that most restaurant personnel, even most of the managers, are aware of it. I'll bet you $5.33 that you were not stolen from.
Man, god help you if you ever use your debit card to stay at a hotel. If you get this pissed over $5 you'll spontaneously combust over what a hotel will put on your card...
Man, god help you if you ever use your debit card to stay at a hotel. If you get this pissed over $5 you'll spontaneously combust over what a hotel will put on your card...
Car rental agencies also get large pre-approval (holding charge) amounts. Sometimes up to $400 extra!
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
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It's more common than you might think, though still quite rare. Most people never even notice is why.
I now think that someone at the restaurant just entered the wrong dollar amount for the charge into the card processing machine. I would just keep my receipt and wait until I got my bank statement (you have 60 days to file a complaint IIRC). If the actual charge ends up being the higher amount, then I would complain to (and failing that, file complaints against) the restaurant.
There is a time to use your debit card and a time to use your credit card. IMO, restaurants are always the place where you want the protection of your Visa Gold.
edit: and restaurants should not do auths for an amount larger than the actual charge. They have absolutely no reason or cause to. The transaction is finalized at the point of sale. They have no reason to believe there will be additional charges and no reason to auth for them.
What was the amount on the receipt that you signed? They put it though as a credit transaction, because they required your signature. If they put it through as a debit transaction, you would have had to enter your p.i.n., and no signature would have been necessary. Again, the only amount that you should see as a transaction on your online banking statement is the amount that you signed the receipt for authorizing them to deduct. They have no authority to overcharge to cover tip, etc. I stopped into my bank branch this afternoon and asked on of the CSR's and that is exactly what they told me. Maybe it varies by bank, but I don't see why it would.
The waitperson generally takes your card from you and then runs it. An approval (or decline) is given at that time. Then he or she brings back your card and a signature slip with a space to add in a tip if you desire. Because a restaurant actually seeks an approval before the amount to be charged is finalized, the system gets an approval for the amount + 20%. If you add a tip, the waitperson goes back to the POS system/CC reader, hits adjust, and enters the tip. At that point, the system does not go online again, even if the tip is somewhat greater than 20%. Instead, that final adjusted amount is stored until closing time. After closing, the actual transaction data with the adjusted charge amounts for all the day's CC sales are transmitted to the bank as a batch. That's why even if you have a voided credit transaction at any establishment, the original approval (hold) is not immediately released by your bank. It's generally released during the next business day, when your bank gets the data on your voided transaction.
I'm not saying it's right or even necessary?gas stations generally don't find it to be necessary, hence the $1.00 approval to turn on the pump, even though you may then proceed to pump your Suburban 3500 full to the tune of $80. But I am saying that's how it is.
I'm not saying it's right or even necessary?gas stations generally don't find it to be necessary, hence the $1.00 approval to turn on the pump, even though you may then proceed to pump your Suburban 3500 full to the tune of $80. But I am saying that's how it is.
Well the transaction finally went through and exactly 26.65 showed up... stupid 20% holding crap....
1. 99% of all restaurants do this.
2. quit all your whining.
3. don't use your debit card if you don't like it.
4. close thread.
2. quit all your whining.
3. don't use your debit card if you don't like it.
4. close thread.
Oakenfold
Diamond Member
- Feb 8, 2001
- 5,740
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This is really interesting, I'm still amazed that your bank holds your funds in your checking account before the transaction actually clears.
What would happen if you try to rent a car or reserve a hotel?
That has got to be one of the goofiest ways to process a check card transaction, EVAR.
Oops just saw other people in the thread saying the same thing.
Glad I don't have your bank Gobadgr, you should find one that doesn't have goofy check card procedures.
What would happen if you try to rent a car or reserve a hotel?
That has got to be one of the goofiest ways to process a check card transaction, EVAR.
Oops just saw other people in the thread saying the same thing.
Glad I don't have your bank Gobadgr, you should find one that doesn't have goofy check card procedures.
OOoops!!! I didnt realize the refresh button caused that... I have no idea what went wrong heh.. sorry about that...
Well, most of them already answered correctly. Just wait one more day and it will clear everything. Even on your banking online, it will show as last weekend but it will change in few days. It happens to me severals time... Dont worry...
Let us know what's the result in few days.
Um... every restaurant in the states does that.
Most settle the auth to the actual charge amount the same day.
Sounds like either this restaurant didn't run the settlement, or the waitress is stealing.
Call the restaurant manager and find out which it is.
Um... every restaurant in the states does that.
Most settle the auth to the actual charge amount the same day.
Sounds like either this restaurant didn't run the settlement, or the waitress is stealing.
Call the restaurant manager and find out which it is.
Originally posted by: LedZeppelin
Originally posted by: Hector13
Originally posted by: werk
what? why the hell should a restaurant put a temp. authorization on my card for anything that I didn't expressly agree to?
I agree. The only thing that should be debited is what is the amount that's on that little piece of paper that I signed, or else, what's the purpose of obtaining the signature? Like I said before, I've never had this happen to me in the 6 years I've been using my debit card on almost a daily basis.
That's not the way it works.
I promise.
I traveled the country installing restaurant point of sale terminals.
Every time they run your card, they get an authorization (a "hold") for the bill amount plus tip. The should settle that at end of day to drop the auth and replace it with a charge for the exact amount.
I don't know where you get your information, but restaurants do it all the time. It's standard industry practice.Originally posted by: Vic
A $5 tip on $26.65 is 18.76%. While maybe not a fat tip, it's hardly skimpy. Above average actually.Originally posted by: ISO
Next time don't skimp on the tip.
This was not a temporary "Authorization" either. Restaurants are not allowed to do that to make sure you "can cover the tip."
Some folks didn't notice the update. The final charge showed up today for the correct amount of $26.65. The Verdict: No Fowl Play.
I'm sure reasons it didn't show until today up are two-fold. First, he went out on Saturday. Transactions only post on business days (M-F), so there is no way it's going show up on Sunday. Second, I suspect he's using Wells Fargo, or another bank that doesn't show real-time transaction data on their website (my credit union does, so neener, neener), so there is an additional delay between the time the transaction posts and the time the site updates.
With Wells Fargo, which is the only big bank I have direct experience with, the only things that show up on the web site in real time are the available balance (which is not the same thing as the actual balance) and "pending" transactions, which are actually just approvals (holds). The rest of the site updates once a day. For me, it was usually about 6:00 AM when the previous day's transactions (such as deposits, ATM withdrawals, Visa debits, and paid checks) showed up.
The approval ($31.98) was granted on Saturday evening, and that's the amount that immediately showed up as a pending charge. That amount was also deducted from the available balance tied to the account. Later Saturday or early Sunday, after the restaurant closed, the transaction data ($26.65) was transmitted from the restaurant, through Visa, to the bank. Sunday is a traditional day off in the banking world, so nothing happened with the transaction. Sometime on Monday, the bank debited $26.65 from the actual account balance, released the $31.98 authorization, and paid the restaurant. Finally, the website was updated with Monday's transactions early on Tuesday morning. So that's how a charge made on Saturday takes until Tuesday to finally show up as a completed transaction.
I'm sure reasons it didn't show until today up are two-fold. First, he went out on Saturday. Transactions only post on business days (M-F), so there is no way it's going show up on Sunday. Second, I suspect he's using Wells Fargo, or another bank that doesn't show real-time transaction data on their website (my credit union does, so neener, neener), so there is an additional delay between the time the transaction posts and the time the site updates.
With Wells Fargo, which is the only big bank I have direct experience with, the only things that show up on the web site in real time are the available balance (which is not the same thing as the actual balance) and "pending" transactions, which are actually just approvals (holds). The rest of the site updates once a day. For me, it was usually about 6:00 AM when the previous day's transactions (such as deposits, ATM withdrawals, Visa debits, and paid checks) showed up.
The approval ($31.98) was granted on Saturday evening, and that's the amount that immediately showed up as a pending charge. That amount was also deducted from the available balance tied to the account. Later Saturday or early Sunday, after the restaurant closed, the transaction data ($26.65) was transmitted from the restaurant, through Visa, to the bank. Sunday is a traditional day off in the banking world, so nothing happened with the transaction. Sometime on Monday, the bank debited $26.65 from the actual account balance, released the $31.98 authorization, and paid the restaurant. Finally, the website was updated with Monday's transactions early on Tuesday morning. So that's how a charge made on Saturday takes until Tuesday to finally show up as a completed transaction.
I bank through US Bank. And for the people whining for me to be quiet about $5, its the principle of the matter. Then again, if $5 isn't a lot of money to some people, then I'd be happy to give them my address or paypal address so that they could send me $5. I'm a college kid and every penny counts...
Thanks to all who posted advice and information.
It's pretty common. I don't see why they don't use credit cards. I had the same discussion with my fiancee awhile back and she pretty much said b/c she is afraid to forget to pay the bill...
I just use my CC. Then temp. charges don't matter b/c they won't affect the bottom line. Although I guess if you are near your spending limit it could be a problem, but I never charge very much.
LOL. Come one Gobadgrs. I can see the principle of it, and you certainly don't want to get bilked out of your hard-earned money. I fought with my CC company over less.
But the "I'm a poor college student and every penny counts" argument is a cop-out. If every penny truly counted, you wouldn't have just spent 2600 pennies on dinner.
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