ya, we have got burned by people though...to many times. in the area of my store a couple of guys would buy western digital hd and open them replace with some other object, then reseal with shrink wrapping. its actually kind of funny when people walk around the store pick up things, then try to return something they didnt even bring in for store credit.
A funny thing happened to me when I bought a camcorder from Best Buy. We saw one there that looked good. We then went to Walmart, where we found the same camera for 50 bucks cheaper. I bought than one, and then went back to Best Buy to return the first (all in a matter of 20 minutes). When I brought it in, they said they were going to charge me a 15% restocking fee. I pointed out that this was only for opened items, and the lady proceeded to tell me that they had to open the box to make sure I hadn't opened it. I told her I had just bought it like 20 min ago, and hadn't had time. I then asked to speak to a manager, who came out, and asked me why I wanted to return it. I told him (truthfully) that I didn't want it anymore, he wouldn't let me. It took some convincing, but he finally acquiesced.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Seems to me that common sense would dictate that they dropped the ball when he returned it. After all this time they then try and nail him for what he did or didn't do? Eitherway I think they don't have a leg to stand on. He should tell them that he is telling the truth and that's the last he wants to hear about it from them. They can't prove ANYTHING. And if your friend did it and is lying to you he isn't really your friend. Laugh as the cops lead him away.
They can't do anything to your friend. Most stores check the good(s) at time of return to make sure it si the correct model/serial.
They had thier chance to inspect it. They gave you the credit and you should of gotten a receipt for the credit. Transaction done. If they try and reverse the charges, then just take it up with your credit card company.
If you paid by cash then just ignore them.
If you paid by cash then just ignore them.
They most certainly CAN do something, its called RETAIL FRAUD. They can call the cops, the cops will take a complaint and possibly make an arrest. They asked him nicely to come in, which is often a ploy to get you in there. Once you're there, they call the cops, who already have been informed of the incident, and they keep you occupied until the cops get there to arrest your butt.
This kind of thing happens all the time and stores do prosecute. I can't say whether Circuit City will prosecute in this particular case, but Circuit City and other stores do all the time.
The "chain of evidence" is irrelevant in these cases. That is for a judge and a jury to figure out. Enough evidence exists to make a complaint and possibly an arrest.
Several months ago, I posted a similar incident that happened to a friend of mine. Guess what? It involved Circuit City, too.
He bought a new television at Circuit City a couple years ago now, they loaded the box into his van, he drove home, unloaded the new TV and began opening the box in the living room as his wife and kids were standing there watching. He gets the box open, and they all are surprised by their new television alright. In the box was a used television that was several years old. Not even a 'refurbished' or 'returned' television of the same make and model. This was an entirely different television that was at least six or seven years old; scuffed, scratched, and a little dusty.
He calls Circuit City and tells them there is a problem with the new television. So they tell him to bring it back and they will sort it out. But when he gets there, the manager doesn't believe his story, and I'm not entirely sure I would either. People DO pull this kind of stuff deliberately to defraud stores all the time.
My friend raises a little hell, so the manager gets on the phone to somewhere, probably a corporate office, and is on the phone with them for about 30 minutes. The manager comes back and tells my friend to leave or they will call the police and file a fraud complaint against him. Realizing that his story is a little hard to swallow and that people do try to pull this kind of retail fraud all the time, my friend leaves.
He got the big run-around from CC's corporate office, they basically told him he was lying. He called his credit card company but after investigating refused to do a charge back. Attorney General's office took the complaint but he never heard back. His only recourse would be to sue CC.
So he ultimately just ate the ~ $250 he lost and learned a very valuable lesson. NEVER leave ANY store without checking the contents of any boxed item, especially if it is a valuable item.
So I have a LOT of people telling me "Screw CC, they can't do anything, do NOT have him go back to the store" a few saying they could get the cops involved, and a few saying he should go back and get it worked out.
The thing that was weird to me was how they refused to talk about it over the phone to him -- how they insisted he come in to the store while this particular guy was there. (We don't know who the guy is, but apparently the CSR who took the return was a female, so it's not the CSR herself covering her own ass). He probably shouldn't have called back at all, now looking at everything here... but even though he did, that shouldn't change anything.
Is there somewhere we can find something "official" that says he legally has no requirement to go in, and that CC is screwed once the customer leaves the store? Or are there rules re: shoplifting that would allow a "suspect" (since that's essentially what CC has made him out to be) to be hunted down, so to speak? Obviously, right now, all they have would be a camera showing him walk in and return a TV.... he paid with, and was refunded in, cash. They only have his name because CC keeps track of customers in their computer system like that.
Even if he is lying (God forbid) to all of us, is there anything there, these facts provided, that could be used against him?
He keeps telling me that he's kind of freaked out, but that he's still telling the truth.
The thing that was weird to me was how they refused to talk about it over the phone to him -- how they insisted he come in to the store while this particular guy was there. (We don't know who the guy is, but apparently the CSR who took the return was a female, so it's not the CSR herself covering her own ass). He probably shouldn't have called back at all, now looking at everything here... but even though he did, that shouldn't change anything.
Is there somewhere we can find something "official" that says he legally has no requirement to go in, and that CC is screwed once the customer leaves the store? Or are there rules re: shoplifting that would allow a "suspect" (since that's essentially what CC has made him out to be) to be hunted down, so to speak? Obviously, right now, all they have would be a camera showing him walk in and return a TV.... he paid with, and was refunded in, cash. They only have his name because CC keeps track of customers in their computer system like that.
Even if he is lying (God forbid) to all of us, is there anything there, these facts provided, that could be used against him?
He keeps telling me that he's kind of freaked out, but that he's still telling the truth.
i dunno, i dont think the cops will get involved. just tonight i guy came in with an empty mci slot usb 2 adapter box for his laptop. he said it was empty when he got it home, showed his receipt and we got him a new one...
threaten to report them for fraud. he returned the TV, they accepted it and now they are accusing him of switching TV's BUT he has no evidence that they themselves didn't swap it once the box was out of his site.
if they didn't inspect the box IN his sight then they have NOTHING to say.
if they continue to harras him, just have him accuse them of Fraud. that will shut them up.
if they didn't inspect the box IN his sight then they have NOTHING to say.
if they continue to harras him, just have him accuse them of Fraud. that will shut them up.
While Circuit City could go this far, I doubt they would. The police departments don't have the resources to respond to $200 incidents. If your car is parked on the street and someone smashes a window and rips off $200 worth of your CDs, try calling the police. At best, they might take a report over the telephone. It would be quite rare if a cop drove over to inspect what had happened.
OS
Lifer
- Oct 11, 1999
- 15,581
- 1
- 76
Are you serious?? Some stores are charging restocking fees for opened items now.
Did the TV box appear to be factory sealed?
It really sucks that this is happening, I've noticed stores are adding in a lot more hoop jumping when you have a return because of this kind of fraud.
You will be amazed at what people think they can do because they are "untouchable", "Screw that I'd just tell them to shove it and there is nothing they can do to me because I'm The Terminator." A lot of people watch too much TV.
If Circuit City wants to file a complaint, and a representative of Circuit City who is in a position of responsibility is willing to make a sworn statement, the police WILL be paying a not-so-friendly visit to your friend, sooner or later. Its really up to them and whether they want to pursue this.
At the very least, even if they don't have enough evidence for a conviction, they can make life for your friend a living hell for a few months.
lol! I'm sure they did! Nothing weird about it.
See, if they can get your friend on their premises, the police DO NOT NEED A WARRANT to arrest him. All they need is a complaint and probable cause. However, if they can not get your friend on their premises, the police will need to obtain a warrant to arrest him, which is not only a higher legal burden, but is more of a procedural head ache for the police. The police prefer not to have to go around town LOOKING for someone and generally don't have the time or manpower to do so for such a petty crime. But it Circuit City can get your friend to come in, the police will be glad to come pick him up.
Because there is no suspect and little hope of identifying a suspect. Now if you call the police and tell them, "I set up a surveillance camera overnight and I caught a guy on video tape busting my windows and stealing my CD's", they will gladly investigate the incident because there is hard evidence which may make it easier to identify the suspect, make an arrest, and make a case against him.
Understandibly, police must prioritize investigations and crimes which have some hope of leading to an arrest. ANY time you are willing to make a sworn complaint against a particular individual as opposed to "some unknown person or persons", the police will give that priority.
Tscenter
did you not read my post?? how is this not my word against your word??
in such a battle circuit city has much more to lose because of the bad publicity.
if he threatens to file a complaint retail fraud and harrasment against circuit city, i'm sure they will drop the incident.
did you not read my post?? how is this not my word against your word??
in such a battle circuit city has much more to lose because of the bad publicity.
if he threatens to file a complaint retail fraud and harrasment against circuit city, i'm sure they will drop the incident.
First, Circuit City doesn't 'package' anything, they are a retailer that sells goods not produced ro packaged by them, so you would virtually need some "smoking gun" to prove that Circuit City committed a crime here, like a video tape.
Second, it goes to believability. The police see FAR more instances of people committing some type of fraud against businesses than vice versa, by some order of magnitude.
Third, he gave up possession of the evidence. It is now in Circuit City's possession.
Fourth, the police respond and act on the behalf of whomever made the complaint. His friend never knew there was a problem until Circuit City told him there was a problem.
Let's say that you and your spouse get into a little tiff. Your spouse goes berzerk and starts slapping you, and you grab her arms to restrain her and to protect yourself. She is still fighting like a demon, so you push her down on her butt and then you leave. You left 'marks' on her arms where you grabbed her, she leaves 'marks' on you where she was slapping you. So, in reality, what happened is that she assaulted you, right?
Not if she calls the police first and claims YOU assaulted her. Now a complaint has been made, the police will respond and act at the behest of the one who made the complaint. If you tell the police what happened and want to make a complaint of your own, it will probably fall on deaf ears, because they will see the marks on her arms, and find that it supports the complaint to which they are responding, which is that SHE was the victim, not you. The marks on you? Those support "defensive" wounds made by her when she was trying to protect herself from your assault.
Police act on the behalf of the person making the complaint and will look for facts or evidence which support their complaint. If they find probable cause to believe a crime occurred the way the complainant said it happened, that's all they look for. The rest is for a prosecutor, a judge, or a jury to figure out.
Yes, I read it. There was nothing of any significance in it.
Bad publicity? Unless this guy's father owns the New York Times, he isn't going to get any publicity, good or bad.
lol! Oh sure, that works all the time. I'm sure Circuit City doesn't hear this kind of thing like five million times per year from every shoplifter or person trying to fraudulently return items. Who is going to give a sh-t?
Ask dmcowen674 how much all this "bad internet forum publicity" detered his former employer and prosecutors from making his life a living hell for several months. Circuit City won't mind losing a couple dozen customers, they have like 50 million more.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
tcsenter, STFU. Circuit City has no recourse. They accepted the item for return. When a return in performed, it is the responsibility of the retailer to inspect the item being returned. Perhaps you have noticed, when you return an item to a retailer, that they inspect it on the spot? Once they have inspected the item and granted the return, the exchange is over. End of story.
edit: btw, do you really know who pulls those retail fraud gigs where they put old TV's in new TV boxes and old ISA vid cards inside the boxes of brand-new Ti4600's? Employees, that's who. 99% of the time it's employees. As for your horror story, that's why I never buy any type of even semi-expensive item at a store without opening the box right there either right at the check-out or at delivery, with a store employee present. If you choose not to do the same, you do so at your own risk.
edit: btw, do you really know who pulls those retail fraud gigs where they put old TV's in new TV boxes and old ISA vid cards inside the boxes of brand-new Ti4600's? Employees, that's who. 99% of the time it's employees. As for your horror story, that's why I never buy any type of even semi-expensive item at a store without opening the box right there either right at the check-out or at delivery, with a store employee present. If you choose not to do the same, you do so at your own risk.
well of course i'm working under the assumption that Waz's friend is being truthful here. IF he is, then it really sux that they can screw his life up like that.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
Interesting and kinky but I think I would lose the fight too LOL.
Ya I think the cops do favor the complaitant but I'm not sure why. Seems to me they should investigate and use discression based on the facts on hand. I also think it's silly to HAVE to arrest some or at least one kid/persons who are fighting today..
Ya I think the cops do favor the complaitant but I'm not sure why. Seems to me they should investigate and use discression based on the facts on hand. I also think it's silly to HAVE to arrest some or at least one kid/persons who are fighting today..
I partially agree with this, but as has been previously discussed they CAN still file a complaint against your friend. Minus fingerprint evidence there is a good chance that it would be thrown out. The best/worst part for your friend is that the return box was NOT opened on video camera which would have revealed either the correct or wrong TV with him standing beside it.
The bad part is that someone else would have purchased the TV and received the wrong item if he switched the TV's.
I want to know why they decided to "look" at a TV that was NEW in the box after the fact anyway? Good tape job? Bad tape job but the cashier didn't look at the underside of the box because it was too heavy to easily turn over?
If he was wronged in this incident, rest assure that injustices have a way of correcting themselves.
That is an excellent point for his attorney to bring to the judge's attention during the pretrail hearing. If I were a judge, I would dismiss the complaint based on that very point: Circuit City failed to inspect the item before giving a refund. Therefore, its their loss. But I'm not the judge, neither are you, and judges can be very fickle.
If it goes beyond that, it is an excellent point for his attorney to make before the jury in his defense.
As a barrier to a complaint being filed and an insuing arrest, that fact is irrelevant.
End of story.
Vic
Elite Member
- Jun 12, 2001
- 50,422
- 14,337
- 136
Sigh... the one and only thing I don't like about you, tcsenter, is that you delude yourself with hate and the notion that anyone who is so much as even suspected MUST be guilty. In the lack of suspicion, you create it so that you can start pointing fingers and accusing.
The "fact" is entirely relevant. It is the responsibility of the merchant to check the condition of the items being returned before authorizing the refund. CC didn't do so. Their loss. Where I live, that's the law, iron-clad.
What you don't understand is that CC was in control of the returned item after it was returned, not WAZ's friend. As evidence against him, it is tainted and inadmissable. With CC's sky-high employee theft rate (one of the highest of any retailer) and the fact that they took 2 days to discover the "error," they have no case.
WAZ, if your friend is innocent, tell him to tell CC to go to Hell.
During an investigation of theft they could detain him. All they have to do is sweat him or arrest him and get his prints. Polce can arrest or investigate without a warrant.
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