How can Condi get way with what she has said today?

[Todd33]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...rticle/2005/12/05/AR2005120500240.html

Rice also asserted that the United States does not transport terrorism suspects "for the purpose of interrogation using torture" and "will not transport anyone to a country when we believe he will be tortured." She added that "where appropriate, the United States seeks assurances that transferred persons will not be tortured."

"Acts of physical or mental torture are expressly prohibited," Rice said. "The United States government does not authorize or condone torture of detainees."

We already know we have done some really nasty stuff in Iraq and Gitmo, are we to believe we didn't do the same to the more dangerous people they shipped overseas in rendition? Is she using legalese to be technically correct? Or is she just saying that torture is not done with a paper trail, but with a wink and a nudge? Whichever it is, it's not very honest, it's the same stuff Rummy has pulled in the last few years with respect to Gitmo.

From the DOJ ( http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/dagmemo.pdf )

(1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under color of law specifically
intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering
incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting
from?
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of
mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical
pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other
procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality

 

[Genx87]

What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

I think at this point I would settle for an address or location for these super dooper secret prisons everybody knows about.

 

[Wheezer]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

I think at this point I would settle for an address or location for these super dooper secret prisons everybody knows about.

Well they are probably near where we keep the crashed alien spacecraft.

 

[Future Shock]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

Nice smear attempt with no substance. "HEY - I'll bet that I can link people that complain about the administration with weird sexual practices! I know I haven't had sex in years, so they must all be weird!"

Is this how you get to be a "Golden Member"? lol...

FS

 

[JackStorm]

Originally posted by: Wheezer
LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

Well...There is a slight difference between willinging submitting yourself to a S&M session and being forced into one.

It would be an interesting study.

Umm...Yeah...Interesting...Do make sure to, uh...Pass the result along once you get it, ok? 😛

 

[techs]

A very unfortunate thing for Condi to say. A sec. of state needs credibility and she has lost hers.

 

[Todd33]

The CIA run interrogation places are not media UFOs, the existence was leaked after it was discussed a Republican Senate meeting. That being said, how can Condi say we don't use rendition for torture, that's the whole point! We take the bad guys out of US territory to avoid US laws so we can torture them. I'm not even getting into whether it's right or wrong, but how can she make such bold claims and not be called on it? Are we at the point that our government just says what it wants, lies and all, they just say it loud and proud?

 

[Strk]

Didn't the story originally get leaked by Senate Republicans?

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: Strk
Didn't the story originally get leaked by Senate Republicans?

Yes 😉

 

[judasmachine]

I think it's time we stop the occupation of defeated Europe. The Soviet threat is gone, Germany is no longer trying to take over the world. If I lived in one of these countries where the US still had a military presence I'd be pissed off.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

Do me a favor. Go to dictionary.com, look up the word "consensual". If our prisoners consented to making nude human pyramids or being ass-raped by batons, then we can all stop talking about it.

It's the difference between sex and rape...but you knew that.

 

[CaptnKirk]

Semantics of the wording. Technically if the US itself does not move the people through the 'rendition cycle'
it falls under the heading of 'Plausible Denial'. We pay other countries agencies to do the deed.

If Afghanistan agents paid by the US go to Germany and exchange a person with agents from Egypt
there is no 'proof' that the US physically was involved. Cash drops, no money documentation trail.

Bond, James Bond.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Todd33

(1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under color of law specifically
intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering
incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting
from?
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of
mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical
pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other
procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality

The Administration would claim there's wiggle room to interpret what "torture" means. For example, what does "threat of imminent death" mean? Is it five seconds? Two minutes? Five minutes? Does water-boarding qualify? If we don't ACTUALLY intend to kill the person, is that a "threat" of imminent death or something less? So I think Condi is using "torture" to mean something just a little bit worse than the stuff we're committing daily. If we push the envelope, the definition of torture will move, too.

 

[arsbanned]

Of course, the U.S. refused to ratify the Rome statute for the World court, unlike nearly every single other Western nation, so she can't be held accountable....
Only six countries had voted against the Rome Statute originally... China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar and Yemen.
So, once Bush took office, we joined the ranks of China, Iraq (Saddam's Iraq, you know, the most recent boogeyman we brought down) Israel, Libya, Qater, and Yemen, all shining examples of Democracy....
Liars are protected by this administration since they help to solidify their power.

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

Yeah, hahaha, really funny. Just keep in mind that others can rightfully torture our personnel now. Laugh it up funny boy.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: shira
If we push the envelope, the definition of torture will move, too.

Well they tried to redefine torture back in 2003 and had to change it back. It wasn't legal and they had tons of pressure, internal and external. Their new definition was super narrow, it was something like "intentional harm that caused organ failure or death", proud time to be an American huh?

 

[dahunan]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Wheezer

Originally posted by: Genx87
What is the address of these secret prisons in Europe? I may want to stop by and join in on the fun.

LOL...I would be interested to know how many anit-administration, anti-torture advocates partake in S&M sessions with thier SO or pay for that activity. Likewise how many of those same people have charges on thier credit cards for sites that promote such behavior.

It would be an interesting study.

Do me a favor. Go to dictionary.com, look up the word "consensual". If our prisoners consented to making nude human pyramids or being ass-raped by batons, then we can all stop talking about it.

It's the difference between sex and rape...but you knew that.

If he doesn't know the difference then I wouldn't mind watching him get a baton or two 😉

 

[Wheezer]

Do me a favor. Go to dictionary.com, look up the word "consensual". If our prisoners consented to making nude human pyramids or being ass-raped by batons, then we can all stop talking about it.

It's the difference between sex and rape...but you knew that.

Exactly my point when you consider the possibility of the people who are on those sites performing such acts may not be so consenting. So by subscribing to those sites you are condoning actions of torture towards possibly innocent persons who may very well be there against thier will....but that would never happen right, 'cause well if it is on the net it MUST be on the up and up.

Perhaps maybe you should expand the scope of your thinking outside the box, or in this case your a$$.

And to those that cannot apparently grasp the corelation, this activity goes on like or not, in fact some people PAY to see it but no one gets up in arms about some poor kid or grown woman from a 3rd world country, or hell from here even getting abused, (oh before you say that it is fake and if it was real it would get reported...think about how many rapes go un-reported)....what do people get riled about around here? The fact that we are making people a bit too chilly or a bit too hot, or that they may not be getting the full 8 hours of sleep they should.

Yeah, hahaha, really funny. Just keep in mind that others can rightfully torture our
personnel now. Laugh it up funny boy.

Yeah you are right...all those people that had thier heads removed, (Daniel Pearl anyone?) the people responsible waited until we crossed the line first before they took any action..now that was justified torture..funny boy.

 

[DealMonkey]

There are some pretty solid cases of U.S. rendition like this one that would seem to contradict Condi's assertion. I don't think it would take long to find others.

I think she's lying. She's done it before.

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: Todd33
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co...rticle/2005/12/05/AR2005120500240.html

Rice also asserted that the United States does not transport terrorism suspects "for the purpose of interrogation using torture" and "will not transport anyone to a country when we believe he will be tortured." She added that "where appropriate, the United States seeks assurances that transferred persons will not be tortured."

"Acts of physical or mental torture are expressly prohibited," Rice said. "The United States government does not authorize or condone torture of detainees."

We already know we have done some really nasty stuff in Iraq and Gitmo, are we to believe we didn't do the same to the more dangerous people they shipped overseas in rendition? Is she using legalese to be technically correct? Or is she just saying that torture is not done with a paper trail, but with a wink and a nudge? Whichever it is, it's not very honest, it's the same stuff Rummy has pulled in the last few years with respect to Gitmo.

From the DOJ ( http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/dagmemo.pdf )

(1) "torture" means an act committed by a person acting under color of law specifically
intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering (other than pain or suffering
incidental to lawful sanctions) upon another person within his custody or physical control;
(2) "severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting
from?
(A) the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering;
(B) the administration or application, or threatened administration or application, of
mind-altering substances or other procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or
the personality;
(C) the threat of imminent death; or
(D) the threat that another person will imminently be subjected to death, severe physical
pain or suffering, or the administration or application of mind-altering substances or other
procedures calculated to disrupt profoundly the senses or personality

Just b/c there have been isolated incidents of "torture" doesn't mean that the federal govt approves of it. Afterall, those at fault are being punished, aren't they?

 

[ntdz]

Originally posted by: judasmachine
I think it's time we stop the occupation of defeated Europe. The Soviet threat is gone, Germany is no longer trying to take over the world. If I lived in one of these countries where the US still had a military presence I'd be pissed off.

Germany doesn't want us to leave...we bring jobs and spend money there...

 

[Lemon law]

Every one knows Condi credability is exactly zero. But she can lie and even be obscene enough to stick her tongue out
if she wants. Because she knows we have the number one military in the world and everyone knows it also.

So she speaks lies loudly and carries a big stick.----any foreign government can call her a liar at their own peril so they simply listen and realize she is full of beans.-----as for here in the USA----nearly everyone with brain one realizes she is full of beans also-----but it is still believed by some small fraction of the radical right.

Right now her credability is right up there with the former Iraqi information minister. The question is and remains will her lies be later examined in the Hague when her big stick sponsor W. Bush is out of office?--and also a co-defendant?

Condi may have some brains but she has no regard for truth.-----most people in that class are labeled pathalogical lirars and locked up.

 

[Todd33]

Originally posted by: ntdz
Just b/c there have been isolated incidents of "torture" doesn't mean that the federal govt approves of it. Afterall, those at fault are being punished, aren't they?

That's pretty naive. Rumsfeld and the Pentagon put substantial effort to make interrogations at Gitmo push over the line of the military code. The redefined torture, they wrote substantial memos and pushed them through legal that interpreted current laws. Rummy brought in Maj.-Gen. Geoffrey Miller to push Gitmo and blur the lines of the MPs and Intel interrogators. He then sent Maj.-Gen. Geoffrey Miller to Iraq to Gitmo-ize Abu Gareb.

Frontline had a great special on this, most people don't know half the story thanks to the short attention span that is 24 hour news channels. It is much deeper than those charged with crimes, just those in the picture were charged, in typical government fashion.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/iraq/abughraib_halton.html

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Todd33
[How can Condi get way with what she has said today?

She's a politician. You know how to tell if a politician is lying... Her mouth is moving.

I'd tell her to stick to playing the piano, but I know too many better musicians, too. 😛