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how can christians claim moral superiority if:

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You know nothing about Fundamentalist Christians!! That is obvious...you know even less about the Bible......

There is a huge distinction between the Old and New testament!!

http://www.gotquestions.org/difference-old-new-testaments.html


any of these are a starting point -- http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20061016064600AAusT9S


I know what old/new testament is, I see nothing I didn't already know in your links..

I'm saying look at the moral topics that are supposedly very important to Christians and you would see that they still pick and choose laws from old testament to support their gay-bashing, etc.. agendas
 
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You're onto something here. Christians are all about the wiping away of the really nasty shit God did before "the new covenant". He still did it, it's still deplorable by our standards, you can't change that. My view is that he never existed and didn't do anything as a result of not existing. Their view is that he did a lot of evil stuff and then decided that we should disregard all that because he said so. Which one is better for his image really?


Yup, a lot of Christians want to pretend God didn't murder entire families and cities... that slavery wasn't a-ok with him, too. Remember, God loves us...

God is love. (John 4:8)

Love is not jealous. (Corinthinas 13:4)

I (God) am a jealous God. (Exodus 20:5)
 
I know all those things mentioned below exist w/o christianity, but since it is set in stone, and every word of Bible is 100% true and unchanging:

1. A good way of expressing love towards children is beating them. I have personally experienced this, and there is certainly a widespread belief among (at least protestant/fundamental) Christians that you are a good parent if you keep your child on a leash by assaulting them at a whim. I have read that the children that escaped from Fred Phelps have experienced brutal beatings, as did their mother, which brings me to point 2.

2. Women worthless dumb people who's only job is to please husbands/give babies, while at the same time being very cunning and being able to "contaminate". As an example, Jesus is considered "uncontaminated" by women, thus he is a "perfect" man. Do I need to mention institutionalized sexism? There are few ocassions where Jesus interacted with women a few times, but mostly he was around men, and the gospels which come after double down on sexism: some quotes here .

3. Slavery is totally OK according to Bible, in literal and abstract way, as in "slaves to God".

4. How do Christians develop sense of morality, if they can just "ask for forgiveness" or in some cases, instead of taking action say things like "leave it to god to punish him/her".

If morality is so important, how do you explain such huge % of criminals being Christian? link

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here (heh), but my reason for not being Christian anymore is not because I was raised in absence of it, but by critically thinking about this subject..


You and I disagree. I critically think about it and decide to be a Christian. Through faith I gradually came understand the purpose of it all. It's true how the bible says it's only through the Holy Spirit that one would understand the Bible.
 
Yup, a lot of Christians want to pretend God didn't murder entire families and cities... that slavery wasn't a-ok with him, too. Remember, God loves us...

God is love. (John 4:8)

Love is not jealous. (Corinthinas 13:4)

I (God) am a jealous God. (Exodus 20:5)

Nope, I don't pretend to ignore anything. I know it and choose to love and support of God 100% in all his decisions.

Let your will be done Father, and not mine.
 
Try reading the bible from beginning to end. If you have not read the book then why comment on it? This is like not reading a book on Marxism or American History and then trying to comment or discuss it. If you choose not to believe something that is fine. However, please dont ignorantly critisize something based on something you saw on the Internet. Many hateful people try to paint what they do not like in a hateful way. That is all I see you doing. So read it for yourself and see what you really think. People always say that religious people are close minded. A true christian is humble, forgiving, compassionate. Paul stated that blessed are the compassionate.
 
The OP brings up a reason why i say i beleive in God and Jesus yet don't put much faith in the bible.


I think that corporal punishment of children is not only good, but necessary. It should be used EXTREMELY sparingly. When it comes down to giving your child a good old fashioned spanking, it should actually be a traumatic experience for them. If you do it all the time, they adapt to it and it has little power over them. I assert this for reasons entirely apart from anything in the bible, which I believe to be mostly false.

I agree with everything else you say.

agree. It should be used but very very sparingly.
 
You're onto something here. Christians are all about the wiping away of the really nasty shit God did before "the new covenant".

This is one of the many astounding things about the Bible/Christianity. Anyone who has actually read the Bible should be able to figure out in short order that the Christian god is a murderous psychopath. Why such a being would be deserving of anyone's worship, even if he did exist, is completely beyond me.
 
Lot of people call themselves Christians but arn't. They use it as a blanket to make themselves seem "good". Christians sin just as much as the next person and a true Christian is willing to admit that, that's why we need Jesus, alone we just go to hell.

Heck even within my church there has been a few divorces and stuff. This crap happens even to Christians.
 
Every religion claims moral superiority, the key is to look beyond the bullshit and realize none of them are superior to another. They are all a product of the time in which they were fabricated.
 
This is one of the many astounding things about the Bible/Christianity. Anyone who has actually read the Bible should be able to figure out in short order that the Christian god is a murderous psychopath. Why such a being would be deserving of anyone's worship, even if he did exist, is completely beyond me.

You made at least one false assumption with that statement. Your assumption is that it is wrong to be a murderous psychopath. This is because a lot of psychopath in society only care about themselves and is basically evil.

Hence then the word psychopath has a bad association.

But lets redefine psychopath from what the DSM-V says, and correct me if there's already a word to describe this concept.

Lets redefine psychopath = one who has a lack of regard for other's thoughts and feelings when one has conviction of the rightness of one's actions

ie. someone who doesn't cave into outside pressure when he is sure of his decision and know the correct path to take

hence then, we can split into a good vs evil psychopath

what you call murder a good psychopath might call as killing in the best interest of all others and the future

Notice that according to my definition, a psychopath can be compassionate, gentle, loving, charitable, and good in general.

Therefore, you would see why calling God a murderous psychopath is more complex than you would initially believe.



If you want an example, I am a good psychopath. I would not hesitate to kill if I believe it would be good and the right thing to do. I doubt I would even feel bad about it afterwards. Yet, I try to care and love others like I love myself.

I do things that I want to do if I feel it is the right thing and the good thing to do. No amount of manipulation would lead me otherwise. I would rather die then yield. However, I can change my mind if others give me valid reasons that I didn't consider before making my decisions.
 
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Lot of people call themselves Christians but arn't. They use it as a blanket to make themselves seem "good". Christians sin just as much as the next person and a true Christian is willing to admit that, that's why we need Jesus, alone we just go to hell.

Heck even within my church there has been a few divorces and stuff. This crap happens even to Christians.

So the difference between Christians and Humanists is that a Christian is a horrible human being but says 'Oh sorry Jesus!' and immediately gets a free pass to heaven, while the Humanist focusses on living a good and fruitfull live and according to the Christian goes straight to hell for not sucking up to Jesus.
 
The OP brings up a reason why i say i beleive in God and Jesus yet don't put much faith in the bible.




agree. It should be used but very very sparingly.

I'm a little confused by that. How can you believe in God and Jesus but not believe in the bible? The bible is where most people learn about God and Jesus.
 
Lot of people call themselves Christians but arn't. They use it as a blanket to make themselves seem "good". Christians sin just as much as the next person and a true Christian is willing to admit that, that's why we need Jesus, alone we just go to hell.

Heck even within my church there has been a few divorces and stuff. This crap happens even to Christians.

The issue with this line of thought is a universal problem that all religions face, which is: who's to decide whether someone is a member of said religion or isn't?

The only absolute authority would be their respective god or gods, but clinging on to a text and allowing for any sort of sway from its direct literal interpretation opens up this inherent problem, among a whole host of other problems. If you're willing to interpret the holy text in this way, why is the other person not a christian if they choose to interpret it differently? Ultimately your guess is just as good as his or hers, thus you have to reserve judgment and either claim they are indeed christians or nobody is but you, or if you're going to be technical, nobody is a christian.

I'm a Bertrand Russell type of atheist, but I too can play the same game for the sake of the argument and claim to be a christian. Under the incredibly loose, I would claim practically nonexistent guidelines, I can be a christian as well. In fact I am. I just decided that I am so I am 😛

it's a bit of a silly hypothetical, but if you stop and think about it, it's quite valid as well. When you give up the right to decide between right and wrong and rely on ancient text with very loose interpretation, you consequently lose the right to even determine who is a follower of your own religion.

-- added rant

The OP's point, from my interpretation, is essentially what I've elucidated above. Christians, or ______ fill in your religion there, discard certain lines, texts or even whole "books" when reading the Bible to reach a conclusion that seemingly fits the tone of the modern culture in which they reside. This can be seen with Muslims in very downtrodden parts of the globe who flock to the strict literal interpretation of the Kuran. These places are devoid of Western influence and the universal freedoms we hold dear. To them, stoning a woman to death after being raped is common practice. Yet when the Bible okays slavery, and even selling your own daughter into slavery, these parts of the holy book are often wholly ignored because they defy the logic and foundation which their society (read: Western society) is based upon.

To that extent, you could even make the claim that normal human logic and rationale actually leads you away from the bible and its rather barbaric statements and rules. What I find to be incredibly hypocritical is that the same people who are bible-thumping are the exact same people who haven't actually read their own holy books nor truly believe in its texts either. If I were a christian, I'd be stoning people left and right because I'd be a true believer otherwise I'd be a sinner and a heathen. If you truly believe these were the words of god, then you aren't nor will ever be in a position to question them; whether they defy your own logic or not doesn't matter, as they're the demands and words of an omnipresent and omniscient being who can't ever be questioned.

At best the explanation for not applying these rules today and living by the same standards falls upon a rather meager claim of "well, that was then and not meant for today," to which you call into question the entirety of the bible itself and its relevance today. If those parts are okay to ignore, why not the whole of it? Why those parts and not others? Why can't we enforce those parts and ignore the peace and love parts? It's like Pandora's box.

--- more ranting

Lest we forget that during the Civil war, one of the reasons for defending the practice of slavery was the old testament itself. Clearly the interpretation of religious texts changes with the times. If that's not an answer to "God made man or Man made god?" question, I don't know what is.
 
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My understanding is that the old testament is the story of the old covenant between God and man. The new testament is about a new covenant based on the life and teaching of Jesus. While the old testament is not meant to be ignored the new covenant provides a lot more clarity and universal context with love being the central theme.
 
While the old testament is not meant to be ignored the new covenant provides a lot more clarity and universal context with love being the central theme.

Along with presenting more questions than answers and even refuting directly what was taught by god in his version 1.0 book.

I've read both books front-to-back and its painfully obvious that the authors were completely different and if you were to remove the allusory and direct references to the prior book, one would never think they were talking about the same religion nor the same god.

It's as if god made a movie called "Predator" and then followed it up with the sequel "Sleepless in Seattle"
 
If you want an example, I am a good psychopath. I would not hesitate to kill if I believe it would be good and the right thing to do. I doubt I would even feel bad about it afterwards.

Excellent. Those wackjobs who fly planes into buildings and blow themselves up with explosive vests think the same exact thing.
 
1. Nowhere in the bible, nor in church does anyone say to beat their kids.
2. Nowhere in the bible nor in the church does it say that Women are worthless/dumb people who's job is to please husband/give babies. Nowhere does it talk about being 'contaminated,' nor does that have anything with Jesus being 'perfect.' Women have nothing to do with contaminating anything. The closest the bible states is sexual immorality, which involves sleeping around before marriage, which is considered wrong because the bible places great emphasis on children being born between married couples for upbringing.
3. Slaves to God is a figure of speech for devotion, not blindly leading, as nobody is forcing us to do anything.
4. Having a sense of moral precludes asking for forgiveness, as if you don't have morals, you would have no need to ask for forgiveness.

Lastly, if Christians truely followed the moral laws of the bible, they wouldn't be Criminals. Once again, taking hearsay and verses at face value is a horrible way to analyze scripture. Context is everything.

If you truely want to think critically about the subject, I suggest you do some deep reading on it.

I know all those things mentioned below exist w/o christianity, but since it is set in stone, and every word of Bible is 100% true and unchanging:

1. A good way of expressing love towards children is beating them. I have personally experienced this, and there is certainly a widespread belief among (at least protestant/fundamental) Christians that you are a good parent if you keep your child on a leash by assaulting them at a whim. I have read that the children that escaped from Fred Phelps have experienced brutal beatings, as did their mother, which brings me to point 2.

2. Women worthless dumb people who's only job is to please husbands/give babies, while at the same time being very cunning and being able to "contaminate". As an example, Jesus is considered "uncontaminated" by women, thus he is a "perfect" man. Do I need to mention institutionalized sexism? There are few ocassions where Jesus interacted with women a few times, but mostly he was around men, and the gospels which come after double down on sexism: some quotes here .

3. Slavery is totally OK according to Bible, in literal and abstract way, as in "slaves to God".

4. How do Christians develop sense of morality, if they can just "ask for forgiveness" or in some cases, instead of taking action say things like "leave it to god to punish him/her".

If morality is so important, how do you explain such huge % of criminals being Christian? link

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here (heh), but my reason for not being Christian anymore is not because I was raised in absence of it, but by critically thinking about this subject..
 
1. Nowhere in the bible, nor in church does anyone say to beat their kids.

Prov 13:24: "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes (diligently)."
Prov 19:18: "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Prov 23:13: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
Prov 23:14: "Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell (Shoel)."
Prov 29:15: "The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame."

2. Nowhere in the bible nor in the church does it say that Women are worthless/dumb people who's job is to please husband/give babies. Nowhere does it talk about being 'contaminated,' nor does that have anything with Jesus being 'perfect.' Women have nothing to do with contaminating anything. The closest the bible states is sexual immorality, which involves sleeping around before marriage, which is considered wrong because the bible places great emphasis on children being born between married couples for upbringing.

"And a man will choose...any wickedness, but the wickedness of a woman...Sin began with a woman and thanks to her we all must die" Ecclesiasticus, 25:18, 19 & 33. 1

One of my favorites:

Genesis 19:8: The men of Sodom gathered around Lot's house, and asked that he bring his two guests out so that the men can "know" them. This is frequently interpreted as a desire to gang rape the visitors, although other interpretations are possible. Lot offers his two virgin daughters to be raped instead: He is recorded as saying: "I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes." Yet, even after this despicable act, Lot is still regarded as an honorable man, worth saving from the destruction of the city. Allowing one's daughters to be sexually assaulted by multiple rapists appears to be treated as a minor transgression, because of the low status of the young women.

rape AND degradation of women! How divine 🙂

3. Slaves to God is a figure of speech for devotion, not blindly leading, as nobody is forcing us to do anything.

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Lastly, if Christians truely followed the moral laws of the bible, they wouldn't be Criminals. Once again, taking hearsay and verses at face value is a horrible way to analyze scripture. Context is everything.

Context is indeed critical here, but why you're choosing to ignore the barbaric parts whilst embracing peace love and understanding Jesus bits doesn't lend you any credence. "Context" is just a way of you picking and choosing what you wish to obey and what you wish to ignore. God doesn't make mistakes, only people do. To state that it was common practice then doesn't justify why anyone should believe any of it now and neither does it make you, or anybody else, the authority to dictate what that "context" is.
 
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