How bad is Intel GMA graphics in a laptop?

[RyanPaulShaffer]

I've been looking at purchasing a cheap laptop, since my old one is broken, and I've seen most laptops come with Intel X4500 HD integrated graphics. I know that these Intel integrated graphic "solutions" are pretty pathetic, but will it be able to:

- Run Windows 7 with all the UI features turned on?
- Play WOW at 1366x768 at 60 FPS?

This would definitely be a non-gaming laptop, but I would like it to be able to run at least WOW decently in case something would happen to the desktop.

Any insight would be appreciated...thanks!

 

[Arkaign]

Yes to Win7, no to WOW at 60fps. WOW is surprisingly CPU limited as well according to benchmarks run after various expansion packs and what not.

Here's someone running WOW on that video adapter : http://www.gatasi.com/video/Im...aying-on-x4500mhd.html

So, bouncing around from 20-70fps with settings on low. Doesn't sound like fun at all to me.

The bad news is that quality mobile gaming graphics cost $$$, there's no real way around it.

 

[Arkaign]

There's this, but even a mobility 4530 will be somewhat limited. http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HP-PAV...05?hash=item2ea890ead6

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

The laptop I would be looking at would probably have an Intel Core 2 Duo T6500 (2.10GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache) as the processor, with 4 GB of RAM. How would WOW do with that processor?

The other options I've been looking at are upgrading to either an 256MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD4330 or an NVIDIA® GeForce® 9400M G. Are either of those options a significant performance increase for playing WOW?

Sorry, I can't view the links right now.

 

[Arkaign]

Hmm, the mobility versions of those GPUs are limited compared to even the limited desktop versions, so the answer is no, not really. 9400M and Mobility 4330 are about as bad as the Intel GMA.

The C2D Cpu and 4GB of ram should be fine.

This mobility 4650 would probably be about the lowest I'd recommend for any gaming at all : http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834157040

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Hmm, the mobility versions of those GPUs are limited compared to even the limited desktop versions, so the answer is no, not really. 9400M and Mobility 4330 are about as bad as the Intel GMA.

The C2D Cpu and 4GB of ram should be fine.

This mobility 4650 would probably be about the lowest I'd recommend for any gaming at all : http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16834157040

Heh...do you really need 1 GB of VRAM to play WOW? I mean, really...that's more than I have at home, and I run WOW at home at 1680x1050 with 2x AA and all settings maxed. Not to mention the entire rig is two years old.

 

[Arkaign]

Memory is not really the determining factor, it's the effectiveness of the GPU to keep pushing the data. In this way, a relatively ancient desktop 7900GT with 256mb video memory will run circles around a 9400m mobile with 1gb video memory. As long as there is enough video memory to support the resolution / details / effects, there's not a bottleneck there.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Memory is not really the determining factor, it's the effectiveness of the GPU to keep pushing the data. In this way, a relatively ancient desktop 7900GT with 256mb video memory will run circles around a 9400m mobile with 1gb video memory. As long as there is enough video memory to support the resolution / details / effects, there's not a bottleneck there.

I see...so the architecture of the graphics card in the mobile version is inferior to the desktop versions.

Still, that laptop you linked seems like overkill for running Windows 7 and WOW at 13x7.

 

[Arkaign]

Even the 4650 mobility gets pushed into the 20fps range with all settings maxed : http://www.notebookcheck.net/A...n-HD-4650.13883.0.html

The 9400M is a slideshow with those settings : http://www.notebookcheck.net/N...e-9400M-G.11949.0.html

Ditto the 4330 : http://www.notebookcheck.net/A...n-HD-4330.13973.0.html

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Even the 4650 mobility gets pushed into the 20fps range with all settings maxed : http://www.notebookcheck.net/A...n-HD-4650.13883.0.html

The 9400M is a slideshow with those settings : http://www.notebookcheck.net/N...e-9400M-G.11949.0.html

Well yeah, my desktop gets pushed into 20 FPS territory if I max AA and the Shadows setting, but nobody does that because it's widely known that the shadows are a huge performance hit for minimal gain.

Edit: Mega time warp!

Edit2: Thanks for the links. They were insightful. :thumbsup:

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Memory is not really the determining factor, it's the effectiveness of the GPU to keep pushing the data. In this way, a relatively ancient desktop 7900GT with 256mb video memory will run circles around a 9400m mobile with 1gb video memory. As long as there is enough video memory to support the resolution / details / effects, there's not a bottleneck there.

I see...so the architecture of the graphics card in the mobile version is inferior to the desktop versions.

Still, that laptop you linked seems like overkill for running Windows 7 and WOW at 13x7.

Yeah, the mobile versions are almost invariably pretty gimped in comparison to their desktop cousins. The reasons are :

(1)- Power Consumption / Heat dissipation
(2)- Size constraints (gpu die and associated circuitry)
(3)- Bit width of the access to memory (many desktop models with 128 or 256-bit memory access are limited to 64 or 128-bit memory access)
(4)- Memory speed and type are typically reduced (lesser versions instead of GDDR5, 5ns instead of 3ns, 600mhz instead of 850mhz, etc, etc)

 

[Arkaign]

You're welcome, I've found that site to be extremely accurate, and the grouping of mobile GPUs into 'class' makes a lot of sense. If you stick with the upper echelons of Class 2 and above, you should be pretty well set. Class 3 and below will be a strain with many things unless you turn the details waaaay down.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
You're welcome, I've found that site to be extremely accurate, and the grouping of mobile GPUs into 'class' makes a lot of sense. If you stick with the upper echelons of Class 2 and above, you should be pretty well set. Class 3 and below will be a strain with many things unless you turn the details waaaay down.

I was just going to ask what that whole Class system meant.

So, Class 1 > 2 > 3 > 4...etc?

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Arkaign
You're welcome, I've found that site to be extremely accurate, and the grouping of mobile GPUs into 'class' makes a lot of sense. If you stick with the upper echelons of Class 2 and above, you should be pretty well set. Class 3 and below will be a strain with many things unless you turn the details waaaay down.

I was just going to ask what that whole Class system meant.

So, Class 1 > 2 > 3 > 4...etc?

Yes, definitely.

1 = $$$, but very nice, although a majority of systems with those types of cards are bulky, hot, and power hungry.

2 = $$, pretty darn good, a lot of the newer entries on that list will be found in less bulky notebooks, and with better battery life.

3 = $, mediocre, may be usable with lower settings / details, but nothing to write home about.

Anything below Class 3 is going to be completely useless for anything much beyond Doom and Solitaire.

I should also say : in general, it's best to find the newest generation in the class that you are looking for as possible. For example, a Geforce Go 7800GTX may be about as fast or a little bit faster than a mobility HD 3670, but it will likely use a lot more power and generate a lot more heat, not to mention you're going to be dealing with an older gen GPU core.

Another tip : if you do go with an Nvidia solution, check with laptopvideo2go.com, you can modify the latest Forceware drivers easily to work with your mobile GPU. I think there is an ATI equivalent as well.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: Arkaign

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Arkaign
You're welcome, I've found that site to be extremely accurate, and the grouping of mobile GPUs into 'class' makes a lot of sense. If you stick with the upper echelons of Class 2 and above, you should be pretty well set. Class 3 and below will be a strain with many things unless you turn the details waaaay down.

I was just going to ask what that whole Class system meant.

So, Class 1 > 2 > 3 > 4...etc?

Yes, definitely.

1 = $$$, but very nice, although a majority of systems with those types of cards are bulky, hot, and power hungry.

2 = $$, pretty darn good, a lot of the newer entries on that list will be found in less bulky notebooks, and with better battery life.

3 = $, mediocre, may be usable with lower settings / details, but nothing to write home about.

Anything below Class 3 is going to be completely useless for anything much beyond Doom and Solitaire.

I should also say : in general, it's best to find the newest generation in the class that you are looking for as possible. For example, a Geforce Go 7800GTX may be about as fast or a little bit faster than a mobility HD 3670, but it will likely use a lot more power and generate a lot more heat, not to mention you're going to be dealing with an older gen GPU core.

Another tip : if you do go with an Nvidia solution, check with laptopvideo2go.com, you can modify the latest Forceware drivers easily to work with your mobile GPU. I think there is an ATI equivalent as well.

Thanks for the info. This has been very insightful. :thumbsup:

 

[yacoub]

so bad that the game will laugh at you and refuse to install itself on your Intel GMA-powered laptop

 

[dflynchimp]

wow I must be on a nagging streak, but people use the edit button to amend your posts, don't double/triple/multi-tuple post. With 4500 you can expect decent HD video playback, but don't expect running anything beyond solitaire on the machine. Of course OP already said this wasn't for gaming so the laptop looks perfect for his/her requirements.

 

[Arkaign]

OP said no gaming other than a possible way to play WOW if his desktop fails.

I guess I'd recommend a notebook with the Intel GMA, they are truly up to whatever task you have outside of professional rendering / 3d gaming, and they are very light on the battery/heat angle

Unless you have $ to burn on a notebook with a truly decent GPU, that $ would be better saved for replacements/upgrades to the desktop gaming system in the case of a failure.

 

[yh125d]

yes W7

not even close WoW





On my lenovo (intel 4500, T6xxx something similar, 4gb of DDR3 which helps) can barely manage 15-20fps on minimum settings at 1280x720. move down to DDR2 and it owuld be even worse. Get SOMETHING dedicated, or at least a 780g+ddr3 based integrated which I hear is notably better (but still crappy)

 

[nicnas]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
I've been looking at purchasing a cheap laptop, since my old one is broken, and I've seen most laptops come with Intel X4500 HD integrated graphics. I know that these Intel integrated graphic "solutions" are pretty pathetic, but will it be able to:

- Run Windows 7 with all the UI features turned on?
- Play WOW at 1366x768 at 60 FPS?

This would definitely be a non-gaming laptop, but I would like it to be able to run at least WOW decently in case something would happen to the desktop.

Any insight would be appreciated...thanks!

Right now I'm using a latop with Intel "GPU" running Win7 32 bit
and play WoW on it 1280x800

Win7: as many posters said, definitely yes

WoW: You can play (I get 20-50 fps with all settings on lowest) but forget about PvP

 

[alcoholbob]

Despite what Intel says, the GMA 4500 does not even have full Open GL 2.0 support. People in the emulator community have been clamoring for ages to get Intel to update their drivers.

That's how bad that graphics renderer is.

 

[WolfpackRon]

I hope there is no problem with piggy backing on this thread. I am currently looking at an HP p6240f desktop computer for $599.99 at Officemax. It is loaded with Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q8300, 750GB (7200RPM)hard drive, 8GB DDR3 memory, and the Intel GMA X4500 integrated graphics and other normal stuff. I am not a gamer at all. This computer looks good to me on paper, but I am somewhat of a rookie. Any comments on this desktop or other possible suggestions would be appreciated. I will use this unit to surf the internet, email, some Office work, photography. Thanks in advance, WolfpackRon.

 

[mwmorph]

For laptops, you can play WoW low everything and sort of chug along, but I don't recommend it.

You can always pay more for an upgraded GPU but that's also not really worth it. The performance of the best performing mobile GPU is exactly just as fast as the top performing gpu from 3 years ago (GTX280M=G92=almost exact equal in performance to a 8800GTX[585/1463/1.9 v.s. 575/1.35/1.8 clocks]).

Originally posted by: WolfpackRon
I hope there is no problem with piggy backing on this thread. I am currently looking at an HP p6240f desktop computer for $599.99 at Officemax. It is loaded with Intel Core 2 Quad processor Q8300, 750GB (7200RPM)hard drive, 8GB DDR3 memory, and the Intel GMA X4500 integrated graphics and other normal stuff. I am not a gamer at all. This computer looks good to me on paper, but I am somewhat of a rookie. Any comments on this desktop or other possible suggestions would be appreciated. I will use this unit to surf the internet, email, some Office work, photography. Thanks in advance, WolfpackRon.

You'll be fine. You won't have zoom acceleration for Photoshop but otherwise, there will be 0 difference.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Memory is not really the determining factor, it's the effectiveness of the GPU to keep pushing the data. In this way, a relatively ancient desktop 7900GT with 256mb video memory will run circles around a 9400m mobile with 1gb video memory. As long as there is enough video memory to support the resolution / details / effects, there's not a bottleneck there.

I see...so the architecture of the graphics card in the mobile version is inferior to the desktop versions.

Still, that laptop you linked seems like overkill for running Windows 7 and WOW at 13x7.

decent desktop graphics cards have access to 70-100+ watts of power easy..and many times much much more. sacrifices have to be made to get stuff to work in a laptop where your total system power is probably below 50 watts.

 

[mwmorph]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Memory is not really the determining factor, it's the effectiveness of the GPU to keep pushing the data. In this way, a relatively ancient desktop 7900GT with 256mb video memory will run circles around a 9400m mobile with 1gb video memory. As long as there is enough video memory to support the resolution / details / effects, there's not a bottleneck there.

I see...so the architecture of the graphics card in the mobile version is inferior to the desktop versions.

Still, that laptop you linked seems like overkill for running Windows 7 and WOW at 13x7.

decent desktop graphics cards have access to 70-150+ watts of power easy..and many times much much more. sacrifices have to be made to get stuff to work in a laptop where your total system power is probably below 50 watts.

Under 150 watts? Probably for all except for the most extreme gaming PCs. Under 50 watts for anything that isn't a ultra portable? Definitely not.The TDP of a Core2Duo Mobile processor (Non ULV, over 1.8ghz) is 25-44W by itself. Add in a HDD, fans, I/O, the other motherboard chips, monitor,networking etc. 65W absolute peak with everything loaded down is reasonable for a smaller laptop.