Encoding and gamming on P4 also run like crap, at leats if you are gaming pacman or something like this. Don't you know hot Hyper Threading work? Do some reading. For example running a game like HL2 alone will take all the P4 resources, also the same will happen while encoding alone. If you do the two works at the same time, HT won't allow the game or encoding to use more than 50% of CPU, running HL2 like crap (I have done this) and encoding at half speed. Remember after all there is only one Physical CPU.
Encoding and gamming on P4 also run like crap, at leats if you are gaming pacman or something like this. Don't you know hot Hyper Threading work? Do some reading. For example running a game like HL2 alone will take all the P4 resources, also the same will happen while encoding alone. If you do the two works at the same time, HT won't allow the game or encoding to use more than 50% of CPU, running HL2 like crap (I have done this) and encoding at half speed. Remember after all there is only one Physical CPU.
Jeff7181
Lifer
- Aug 21, 2002
- 18,368
- 11
- 81
Quote from Xbitlabs:
"So, both logical processors work on the same physical core. We have already mentioned above that all core resources will be split into large categories: ?shared? and ?distributed?. The so-called distributed resources include Fetch Queue, Uop Queue and Scheduler Queue. For each logical processor the queue depth is smaller because a part of its capacity is assigned to another logical processor. In other words, these resources are split in two halves: one for each logical processor. Or, for example, there is a position in the queue, which can be occupied only by the first logical processor, and another position can be used only by the second one. In case of shared resources their actual distribution between the logical processors will be arranges individually for each particular case. However, note that there is a special system preventing one logical processor from using up the entire resource capacity. You understand why this system is necessary: if we have one fast and one slow (or stalled) commands thread, then the latter can theoretically occupy all queues thus blocking the execution of the first thread.
Therefore, there should be a certain algorithm which would allow distributing the queue capacity between the two processors in the most efficient way. How can two threads share the positions in the UopQ (or any other queue) with the fixed number of positions? There are two different ways: competitive way (when each of the threads tries to take as much of the resources from the opponent as possible) and fixed way (50:50, for instance). In the first case it is quite possible that one of the threads will slow down or oust the second thread from the queue completely. In the second case, the resources will not be used efficiently, if one of the micro-operations threads requires more than 50% of them: one of the threads will lack resources, while the other one will simply waste them.
In the Pentium 4 processor the queue capacity for each thread is fixed: each of the logical processors has twice as short Fetch Queue, Uop Queue and Schedulers Queue at its disposal than in the example above with the disabled (absent) Hyper Threading technology. This certainly has some negative influence on the performance of each logical processor, but makes it impossible for any of the threads to block the processor. So, here the resources are distributed absolutely equitably. Important notice: the micro-operations are moving along the queue independently for each logical processor."
Just A depeer explanation of what I am saying.
Its the difference between Playable and unplayable in world of warcraft.
3500+, 1GB, 6800GT, 250GB, Nforce4 Ultra-D = less than 10fps
Rig in sig = 25-35fps
25-35 FPS is CRAP for me.
Actually My CPU can do all this stuff:
-Open Firefox using the ScrapBook plugin loaded locally archived copies of 13 web pages. We kept the browser on the AT front page.
-Open iTunes and start playing a playlist on repeat all.
-Open Newsleecher.
-Login to AT news server and start downloading headers for our subscribed news groups.
-Start backup of Star Wars Episode VI - Return of the Jedi. All default settings, including low priority.
Later with all this running, gaming DOOM3 at 45-50 average FPS which is pretty playable, BUT no, I like the maximun performance while gaming so I just run the game alone. The FPS loss in a similar P4 are even worse, you can see even Pentium D 840 doing the same losing 21 FPS(-30%!!!!) while playing DOOM3, In the P4 the impact is much higher(the FPS decrease will be surely much more than 30%, which at least for me is unaceptable).
Doom 3 Playing alone:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2410&p=7
Doom 3, In this multitasking scenario:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2410&p=13
Normal multitasking without CPU intensive process can't see much different.
There will be noticeable much different wen a crap process occur. It will eat up 100% cpu kernel time of A64 but with only 50% of P4 HT. This allow P4 HT to continue work with 50% power that can smooth end task the crap process.
All P4 HT advantages will balance up by the appear of Athlon 64 X2!
There will be noticeable much different wen a crap process occur. It will eat up 100% cpu kernel time of A64 but with only 50% of P4 HT. This allow P4 HT to continue work with 50% power that can smooth end task the crap process.
All P4 HT advantages will balance up by the appear of Athlon 64 X2!
If you plan on running two instances of WoW. Build a dual opteron (NOT a dual core) rig with a gig of ram for each cpu and two videocards each driving it's own monitor. Hmmm. Too bad there aren't any NF4 940 boards yet (that I know of). Hey, here's an idea. Use two computers or *gasp* a bot program to actually cheat properly (Instead of this half-assed cheating).
If you're a person who is constantly wanting to game, burn media, encode something, all at the same time, you need to get to two different boxes or simply calm down. Even if you had the CPU power to game and burn media simultaneously with no slowdown, you can't do both at the same.
In a purely qualitative statement my old P4 2.8E felt during windows use more responsive and faster than my A64 4000+.
I know that in reality and with every benchmark I threw at it the Athlon was the faster chip, but the perception of speed was with the intel chip.
My solution to this problem is very simple dual core Athlon in a month or fews time.
I know that in reality and with every benchmark I threw at it the Athlon was the faster chip, but the perception of speed was with the intel chip.
My solution to this problem is very simple dual core Athlon in a month or fews time.
AMD 64 is better at floating point and Intel is good at multitasking just by itself but then again Hyperthreading is a gimmick and I don't trust virtualization.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
Hyperthreading is not a gimmick. It's the reason I went from AMD to Intel. Makes apps runs smooth as butter. But with the X2, I plan on going back to AMD.
There is no question that X2 is a better product than the Pentium-D, it has gone from an arguable match to a slaughter. The only reason to buy a Pentium-D over X2 right now is price of entry, and even there X2 is still only about $150 off when you consider total system cost.
Also, what are the real advantages to a dual core processor to the people who already have an HT setup?
The advantage is huge in performance when running multiple intensive apps or multithreaded ones, as you can see in the AT benchmarks. Even slower clocked Pentium D 820 can blow out of the water P4 670 CPus in multuthreaded apps. no need to talk about the A64 X2 superiority.
CONCLUSION: HT "advantages" are crap compared to the benefit of a dual core configuration, specially looking at an Athlon 64 X2 config. The gain in performance can be as high as 80%, while HT the max benefit is 20-25%. This makes HT obsolete.
I don't know why somone would practically burn, encode, and game at the same time, unless you have so much burning/encoding to do that you do it 24/7.
I personally do my long burning/encoding either overnight or while I am doing something else (ie dinner), when I game I want it fullspeed.
I personally do my long burning/encoding either overnight or while I am doing something else (ie dinner), when I game I want it fullspeed.
Capt Caveman
Lifer
- Jan 30, 2005
- 34,543
- 651
- 126
It can also be had at axentmicro for $265 or techonweb for $270. Also, the 945 chipset mobos are available for $159 at newegg and this price will drop over the next week or two.. That makes it about a $200 difference.
The X2 4200+ can be pre-order for $645 at pcmall but I don't think anyone is going to pay that much and go elsewhere. Samething for the 820.
I use newer model P4s at work as well as an A64 at home, and for "regular" multitasking there isn't really a difference. To be fair, yes the A64 doesn't handle heavy multitasking(I.E. encoding a video or burning a DVD while playing a game) as well as my previous dually machine did, but the P4 w/ HT isn't much better in that area in my subjective experience.
I thought P4s were memory bandwidth limited, so even if you go dual core you will want to stop everything else so your game or whatever can run at its full potential.
You don't need multiple processors to be responsive, an encoding or heavy computation process should run at lower than normal priority so it instantly gives way when a web browser or something needs time. But it's easier to buy a new processor than to fix a load of poor software.
You don't need multiple processors to be responsive, an encoding or heavy computation process should run at lower than normal priority so it instantly gives way when a web browser or something needs time. But it's easier to buy a new processor than to fix a load of poor software.
It's my experience too, so it seems not to be that subjective. A64 can't handle that kind of heavy multitasking , but P4s w/HT are not much better. Maybe because we both have used real dual CPU machines.
No dual s940 nForce 4 boards out there right now? Bow down before the K8WE nForce 4 Pro.
That said, HT is quite nice to have if you are a distributed computing freak. A P4 840 EE chewing on 4 different SETI work units at the same time would be nice to have.
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