How are you using your card to Capture Video?

[rbV5]

Like the title says, I play with video capture quite a bit with my rig, I've run across some methods and tools that give me some pretty good results. I thought maybe a thread to consolidate some ideas, or simply discuss video capture. It would be nice to have a variety of capture cards and how you're using them including software and/or settings you are using.

Capture Card: ATI AIW Radeon AGP, stock clocked.
Video Equipment: Coaxial Analog Cable TV via splitter, 1 to the TV and 1 to the Radeon's tuner(appx 18') Phillips Stereo VCR via Composite cable into the Radeo's breakout box. S-video out to 32" Sanyo TV.
My rig is in the sig.

Software I'm using most of the time: MMC 7.5, VirtualDub, 3.11a low motion Divx codec. ATI file player. 6025 driver and rage theater drivers.

Watching TV on the PC: Using ATI TV player with the ATI VCR codec default.
Capture to watch later : Straight to Divx 320x240 using 3.11a codec @ 6000Kb/sec 100 crispness 1 sec keyframes, if I'm burning to a CDR or CDRW I'll recompress the video to MP3.
Capture to edit or archive : Raw AVI 720x480, huffyuv codec. Encode with Nandub 2 pass.
Watching captured video: On my PC, and through the video-out 800x600 using s-video and overscan.

Thats what I'm doing right now. Lets find out what you're doing and discuss.

Update: Adding tool links

VirtualDub

 

[duragezic]

Hi I have a couple questions. In the other thread so said to avoid deinterlacing, encode at 320x240. What is the disadvantage of deinterlacing? Also, are 320x240 and 720x480 the only resolutions which don't require deinterlacing? Wouldn't it be better to capture at a higher resolution so it doesn't look so crappy when you maximize or make it bigger when viewing?

I encode in mpg1 at about 5 mbps bit rate, 640x480, deinterlaced. Then I load the captured files into Premiere, edit it, and export to divx low motion, 6000kbps for viewing on the computer or outputting to a VHS. But something just occured to me this second. I am capturing all of my footage off a Hi8 camcorder, does that mean I don't need deinterlacing? I don't think that is a very good way to do it as far as quality but as of now I don't have the space (too much other damn stuff I need to pay for so I can't get a new hd!).

And I can't ever get divx encoding working in MMC.

 

[rbV5]

<< And I can't ever get divx encoding working in MMC. >>



Its not really necissary, you can use something like VirtualDub.



<< In the other thread so said to avoid deinterlacing >>



I really should have said: "To avoid the effects of interlacing" actually.

With NTSC video, each frame is actually made of 2 "fields" one the odd numbered scan lines, the other the even numbered scan lines.They are 240 lines each, shown alternately or "interlaced", then on to the next frame. When it plays on your TV, it plays smoothly, it displays at a rate of 30 fps, updated alternately with each field "field" or 60 "fields" per second. On your computer, it displays both fields at once though, all 480 lines, and this is the problem. When you have action in your scene, the difference between those 2 "fields" in each frame will show as interlaced artifacts or jaggies when viewed on your monitor. So basically capture at above 240 lines, you get interlacing artifacts.

So when you capture at 240 lines you are basically only capturing 1 entire "field" per frame, no differences in the field per frame, so no interlacing artifacts. To capture 480 lines and compress with Divx without dropping frames is more than most CPU's can handle, to add a deinterlacing filter on top of that to make it watchable on your computer, is even worse. That means re-encode, which, I ask, why not capture high resolution then to start?



<< Wouldn't it be better to capture at a higher resolution so it doesn't look so crappy when you maximize or make it bigger when viewing? >>



I wouldn't do it at all if it didn't look good when viewed full screen. The settings I use will give you about 10 MB/min if you recompress the audio to MP3, very similar to VCD size at much higher quality IMHO. If I want the best possible, I go another route, but if I'm going to watch it later, or maybe a quick burn to the CD, it works for me.

 

[NicColt]

Capture Card: ATI AIW Radeon AGP, stock clocked
Analog Cable TV connected directly into Radeon Tuner
Sony VCR when needed (channels that Guide+ doesn't carry) using a Y stereo split for sound directly into sound card bypassing Radeon connection.
View TV on my NEC FE950+ using with sound card connected to external AMP with 100 Watt speakers. http://ravines.tripod.com/system/ (cut and paste)
Software MMC 7.1 Win2K SBLive with 6025, for video editing Vegas Video 3 with MainConcept Mpeg1 and 2 - Vid Editing Heaven, there is no need for ANYthing else.
To capture TV and watch at work straight to MPEG1 at 1.11Mb/sec 75 Motion. 30min=313 Megs and for 60=626 Megs so 2 half hour shows or 1 one hour show per cd-rw. At 10X on LG 24X10X40 it takes 7 minutes/cdrw.
To Capture to edit or for archive, I capture MPEG2 at 4 or 6MB and edit it in Vegas Video onto VCD or SVCD

I was ready to start putting my entire personal tape collection on SVCD but I'm now holding off since the AIW RV250 or R300 will have Hardware Encoding and Vegas Video 3 can now do 2.4MB SVCD and even 8MB DVD with 4:3 and 16:9 aspect.

 

[duragezic]

Yes!!! I actually checked rbV5 like you suggested, and it is indeed encoding in divx. So although it only said 9 minutes remaining on the disc, even after I started capturing, after like 30 seconds of capturing it changed to 2 hours, so I knew it was working. Just a little display problem, that's all. I originally was going to do a test capture then see the video properties to see what codec it was using but since the time changed I knew it was all good!

So I went and captured my footage at that, and the new files total only about 45% of what the mpg1 files did. I compared a full-screen 640x480 mpg1 file I had to the new divx file I had, and I think the mpg had a SLIGHT edge but I think it'd be very hard to pick out. A question, although everyone recommends low-motion, would I benefit from using fast-motion because it's all snowboarding footage?

Another question, since I am now actually capturing in divx in MMC, what audio codec is it using? I selected the max quality audio in MMC, because I want it max quality until I see what I'm gonna do with it then I bring the quality down on the final edited video.

One of the files, its 5:25 long and 107mb. I opened that file in VDub, then selected 64kbps 44khz stero for divx ;-) and saved it, no other changes. The new file is 66.1mb. So apperantly I chopped off 40mb just by converting the audio (although it was lower quality I think, but I'm not sure what kbps the audio is at in MMC). That makes it closer to the 10mb/minute you said.

Overall, quite pleased. I'm gonna mess around with it more this weekend and also try and free up some space and try that huffyuv stuff. Oh and recapture everything because I'm a friggin idiot and I forgot to turn off 4speaker sound (it needs to be disabled for my surround out to become line in!).

bump I wanna see some more stuff about capturing.

 

[rbV5]

<< A question, although everyone recommends low-motion, would I benefit from using fast-motion because it's all snowboarding footage? >>



You can always try differenrt codecs, bitrates ect. There is no one magic setting that works the best for everyone. My experience so far is that I get the best results with the low motion codec in almost every case, YMMV.



<< what audio codec is it using? >>



Uncompressed Pulse Code Modulation (PCM)




<< 64kbps 44khz stero for divx ;-) >>



I use the MP3 audio codec rather than the divx audio compressor, the divx audio seems to have more sync problems In my experience. Nice quick way to drop the file sizes down without sacrifice.

I'm going to hunt down a good free host, and throw some sample captures up at various capture/codec settings. I'm also going to play around with Windows media codecs as well. Maybe at some point we can get around to playing with the various filters and using some of the more advanced VirtualDub/Nandub pre/post processing features, and editing/working with the various formats ect.

Good luck!

 

[duragezic]

Alright thanks. Tripod has 50mb free in case you didn't know. I've found it to be pretty fast too and I don't think there is a bandwidth limit (unless its really high cause I never hit it).

 

[duragezic]

I captured some stuff again.

Once at 6000kbps Fast-motion, keyframe every 3 sec, 320x240. Length: 3:00. Size: 49.5mb
Captured the same footage at 6000kbps low-motion, keyframe every 3 sec, 320x240. Length:3:01. Size:60.6mb.

I didn't convert the audio yet, but I was viewing them and comparing the low motion was still a TINY BIT better quality, even though snowboarding is pretty much fast motion.

I haven't messed around with anything else yet, because I get random restarts so friggin much I'm just gonna hold on doing any capturing for right now. Ugh, problems!.

Oh, and comparing my previous 640x480 mpg1 6mbps captures vs. these new divx ones, the mpg1 has the edge in quality. That is probably attributed to it being captured at double the resolution, so it doesn't get have to be blown up as much to view it full screen. I want to try the raw avi stuff though, I'm sure that'll be real good quality.

Got a link for NanDub? I always hear about it, but I've used FlaskMPEG in the past, but that is slow and if I understand, it's more of a n00bs tool while NanDub is for l33ts.

 

[rbV5]

<< Got a link for NanDub? >>



Here is a nice download page for Video Tools. Bummer about the restarts on your rig. Sounds like maybe MB drivers and/or vid drivers or maybe MMC.

Good luck on a fix.

 

[duragezic]

Well that one video file doesn't restart my computer anymore and my divx capture plays full screen normally now but I haven't captured so not sure if it still restarts.

How does the keyframes affect filesize? I used to uh do the keyframe every 10 sec but I think I did it 5 with the other capture.

And now damn VDub isn't converting my audio files... just sits there at 0% done. Damn nothing can ever work right!