How Apple can have a 4" retina display in their next iPhone

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yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
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You have to understand what I've been saying here - why not have both? Why does everyone in this thread have to turn it into a big vs sharp debate? This is about future phones. I agree that with the current group - I'd rather the size over the resolution, hence I have purchase a HD2 and an Epic in the last 6 months. However, I'm saying for a future phone...resolution DOES matter, as does size, so the best phone would have both.

Dude, that's what we're saying. Apple could easily have gone with 980x640 in a 4" screen and had both the large and still be sharper than any competitor. But instead, they took a res that would be great for a 4+" phone and stuck it in a 3.5 which considering its competition, is tiny.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
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Why single out Apple? By contrast you could just as easily say that Moto/HTC/Samsung are taking 4" screens that would look great with 720p but instead 'copping out' with 800x480.

They really only need to stay ahead of the iPhone, that's what everything is compared to. Now that Apple has beat them in res, I bet suddenly 800x480 isn't "good enough" anymore.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
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Why single out Apple? By contrast you could just as easily say that Moto/HTC/Samsung are taking 4" screens that would look great with 720p but instead 'copping out' with 800x480.

They really only need to stay ahead of the iPhone, that's what everything is compared to. Now that Apple has beat them in res, I bet suddenly 800x480 isn't "good enough" anymore.
 

coolVariable

Diamond Member
May 18, 2001
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I think the phone could be slightly bigger and have a much bigger screen without bezel.
The thick bezel is a real turn-off in most modern phones ...
 

TheStu

Moderator<br>Mobile Devices & Gadgets
Moderator
Sep 15, 2004
12,089
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I think the phone could be slightly bigger and have a much bigger screen without bezel.
The thick bezel is a real turn-off in most modern phones ...

A certain amount of bezel is still currently necessary.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
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You have to understand what I've been saying here - why not have both? Why does everyone in this thread have to turn it into a big vs sharp debate? This is about future phones. I agree that with the current group - I'd rather the size over the resolution, hence I have purchase a HD2 and an Epic in the last 6 months. However, I'm saying for a future phone...resolution DOES matter, as does size, so the best phone would have both.

I agree. I think 2011 smartphones will have both large screens and high resolutions. I'm not sure if I can downgrade below 300dpi though. I hope there will be more high res phones available.
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,886
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Why single out Apple? By contrast you could just as easily say that Moto/HTC/Samsung are taking 4" screens that would look great with 720p but instead 'copping out' with 800x480.

They really only need to stay ahead of the iPhone, that's what everything is compared to. Now that Apple has beat them in res, I bet suddenly 800x480 isn't "good enough" anymore.

Apple is getting singled out because they didn't do what everyone else did. Moto/HTC/Samsung all have moved simultaneously to larger screens and higher res with their latest releases (droid/incredible/evo/galaxy s/etc), while apple only ups the res and is still using a 2007 screen size
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
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Why single out Apple? By contrast you could just as easily say that Moto/HTC/Samsung are taking 4" screens that would look great with 720p but instead 'copping out' with 800x480.

They really only need to stay ahead of the iPhone, that's what everything is compared to. Now that Apple has beat them in res, I bet suddenly 800x480 isn't "good enough" anymore.

The reason why 800x480 isn't good enough any more is cus of the much larger screens they moved to. The latest competition to the iPhone has larger screen but lower rez.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
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Apple is getting singled out because they didn't do what everyone else did. Moto/HTC/Samsung all have moved simultaneously to larger screens and higher res with their latest releases (droid/incredible/evo/galaxy s/etc), while apple only ups the res and is still using a 2007 screen size

None of those android devices you mentioned has a 300 dpi resolution screen. Remember that print is 300dpi which essentially makes the iPhone screen look almost as good as printed paper.
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,976
1,178
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I'll take a smaller, better looking screen over a bigger less clear one any day of the week. It would be nice to have an iPhone with a larger screen, but considering how much better the iPhone 4's screen looks than any other phone out there. I think it's kind of a wash. I really like the screen on my Moto Droid, but whenever I play with my friends iPhone 4 I never feel like "crap this is a small screen" Because it just blows the other screens away.

Perhaps a Droid will come out next year with a screen that can rival the quality, and Apple will release a 3.7 or 4.3 iPhone.
 

kaerflog

Golden Member
Jul 23, 2010
1,899
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I'll take a smaller, better looking screen over a bigger less clear one any day of the week. It would be nice to have an iPhone with a larger screen, but considering how much better the iPhone 4's screen looks than any other phone out there. I think it's kind of a wash. I really like the screen on my Moto Droid, but whenever I play with my friends iPhone 4 I never feel like "crap this is a small screen" Because it just blows the other screens away.

Perhaps a Droid will come out next year with a screen that can rival the quality, and Apple will release a 3.7 or 4.3 iPhone.

Well, the Droid actual screen area is barely bigger than the iphone so maybe thats why you don't feel like the iphone has smaller screen.
Sure it maybe 3.7" to 3.5" but the Droid ratio is 16:9 vs 3:2 for the iphone so the area of the Droid is barely bigger.
Play with a Galaxy S or Hd2/EVO/X and then you will see how small the iphone screen is.
BTW, owners of Galaxy S phones will disagree with you, myself inlcuded
The s-amoled screen can't be beat.
The pixel density on the ip4 is awesome but the overall screen look washout when holding it against a s-amoled screen.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
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I'll take a smaller, better looking screen over a bigger less clear one any day of the week. It would be nice to have an iPhone with a larger screen, but considering how much better the iPhone 4's screen looks than any other phone out there. I think it's kind of a wash. I really like the screen on my Moto Droid, but whenever I play with my friends iPhone 4 I never feel like "crap this is a small screen" Because it just blows the other screens away.

Perhaps a Droid will come out next year with a screen that can rival the quality, and Apple will release a 3.7 or 4.3 iPhone.

So, would a 2 inch screen with 2048 x 1280 resolution be better than the iPhone 4? Surely it has higher resolution so it must be better -- right?

Hey, you're free to chose a smaller phone, I don't mind. Does it bother you that most everyone else is going larger than 4 inches? If so, why?


Brian
 

Spicedaddy

Platinum Member
Apr 18, 2002
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I own an iPhone 4 and played around with a Milestone today, and the res difference wasn't that noticeable. It's probably more noticeable on the 4.0"/4.3" screens.

Honestly, 960x640 on 3.5" is overkill, but it made sense for Apple. They can claim it's better than others, and it let them scale everything easily from 480x320.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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I own an iPhone 4 and played around with a Milestone today, and the res difference wasn't that noticeable. It's probably more noticeable on the 4.0"/4.3" screens.

Honestly, 960x640 on 3.5" is overkill, but it made sense for Apple. They can claim it's better than others, and it let them scale everything easily from 480x320.

I think the brightness and resolution did get to me. I am a Milestone owner, and I thought the iPhone Retina display did look quite good. I don't know but the brightness kinda hurts my eyes though.

Well, the Droid actual screen area is barely bigger than the iphone so maybe thats why you don't feel like the iphone has smaller screen.
Sure it maybe 3.7" to 3.5" but the Droid ratio is 16:9 vs 3:2 for the iphone so the area of the Droid is barely bigger.
Play with a Galaxy S or Hd2/EVO/X and then you will see how small the iphone screen is.
BTW, owners of Galaxy S phones will disagree with you, myself inlcuded
The s-amoled screen can't be beat.
The pixel density on the ip4 is awesome but the overall screen look washout when holding it against a s-amoled screen.

The whole AMOLED thing is a bit overrated to me. I don't know how an S-AMOLED performs, but I know the washed out look you talk about. Is it really washed out? The Droid looks damn washed out compared to a Nexus One, but the thing about AMOLED is that it just pushes saturation up the ass. On some test, didn't they show the iPhone 3GS at 67&#37; gamut, Droid at 97 or 103%? Nexus One was at 141%. That just means it exaggerates colors. The human eye likes warm colors and a lot of saturation. This is why many people love the Nikon color pop when it comes to photography, but in reality Canon shots to me look more like real photos. But do people love it when I take the vibrance slider and crank it up in Lightroom? Hell yeah! So in terms of color, I don't know. The iPhone 4 does have pretty darn good contrast.

If you're talking about the 3GS, yeah that display is crap, but the IPS panel on the iPhone 4 is no slacker
 
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zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
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The whole AMOLED thing is a bit overrated to me. I don't know how an S-AMOLED performs, but I know the washed out look you talk about. Is it really washed out? The Droid looks damn washed out compared to a Nexus One, but the thing about AMOLED is that it just pushes saturation up the ass. On some test, didn't they show the iPhone 3GS at 67% gamut, Droid at 97 or 103%? Nexus One was at 141%. That just means it exaggerates colors. The human eye likes warm colors and a lot of saturation. This is why many people love the Nikon color pop when it comes to photography, but in reality Canon shots to me look more like real photos. But do people love it when I take the vibrance slider and crank it up in Lightroom? Hell yeah! So in terms of color, I don't know. The iPhone 4 does have pretty darn good contrast.

If you're talking about the 3GS, yeah that display is crap, but the IPS panel on the iPhone 4 is no slacker

Oh of course the IPS in the iPhone 4 is a good display but there's the limitations on the technology that you can't overcome. S-AMOLED is much different as we all know. It really helps when watching media as most movies or videos you'll watch on the web or through your phone are usually dark. I hope by next year S-AMOLED and S-LCD become cheaper so that we can move onto those.
 

Headcase_Fargone

Senior member
Nov 20, 2009
388
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I'll take a smaller, better looking screen over a bigger less clear one any day of the week.

Everyone's opinion differs on this one. All of the people in my office with iPhone4s have said they'd trade their res for my screen size (I own an Evo) in a heartbeat.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
0
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So, would a 2 inch screen with 2048 x 1280 resolution be better than the iPhone 4? Surely it has higher resolution so it must be better -- right?

Hey, you're free to chose a smaller phone, I don't mind. Does it bother you that most everyone else is going larger than 4 inches? If so, why?


Brian

I don't see how that analogy is relevant. A smartphone with a 2" screen is unusable, while a smartphone that is 3.5" is not. I owned an EVO before the iP4 and I would have to say that I miss the larger screen, but on top of this I love the higher resolution. Hopefully in the future we can get both.

I own an iPhone 4 and played around with a Milestone today, and the res difference wasn't that noticeable. It's probably more noticeable on the 4.0"/4.3" screens.

Honestly, 960x640 on 3.5" is overkill, but it made sense for Apple. They can claim it's better than others, and it let them scale everything easily from 480x320.

Print is 300dpi, so its not overkill. Also just because it was easier for them to scale from 480x320 doesn't mean they were trying to trick the consumer. It was a smart move on Apple's part to decrease fragmentation.

This is why I believe the iPhone5, if it has a 4" screen, will sport the iPad's resolution at 1024x768, which would still keep the phone at ~326dpi. If such a screen exists in the future, trust me, people will be drooling.

Oh of course the IPS in the iPhone 4 is a good display but there's the limitations on the technology that you can't overcome. S-AMOLED is much different as we all know. It really helps when watching media as most movies or videos you'll watch on the web or through your phone are usually dark. I hope by next year S-AMOLED and S-LCD become cheaper so that we can move onto those.

What limitations are you talking about? The only advantage that I see so far from SAMOLED is its ability to display dark blacks and maybe power consumption. It also allows the phone to be thinner as the display is right in the glass(I think?). But from Anand's review the iPhone has a similar manufacturing process.


Well, the Droid actual screen area is barely bigger than the iphone so maybe thats why you don't feel like the iphone has smaller screen.
Sure it maybe 3.7" to 3.5" but the Droid ratio is 16:9 vs 3:2 for the iphone so the area of the Droid is barely bigger.
Play with a Galaxy S or Hd2/EVO/X and then you will see how small the iphone screen is.
BTW, owners of Galaxy S phones will disagree with you, myself inlcuded
The s-amoled screen can't be beat.
The pixel density on the ip4 is awesome but the overall screen look washout when holding it against a s-amoled screen.

Have you seen an IPS display next to a SAMOLED? I can't remember where I saw the review, but they perform the same in direct sunlight. So I'm not sure what you mean by looking washed out? SAMOLED is hype, it increases contrast and deeper blacks. An IPS display is just as good. I have an IPS display for my desktop and I love it.
 
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BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
91
An IPS display is just as good.

No, it is grossly inferior. Besides the obvious- clearly inferior contrast and weaker colors IPS displays are also significantly slower then SAMOLED. Anyone who claims that having 300dpi is a major advantage should have eyes easily good enough to notice the fairly bad streaking of LCDs. What some people are currently doing is saying that an IPS display with four times the pixel density is just as good- it has different strengths, but trying to state that IPS is comparable to SAMOLED is absurd. SAMOLED has almost all of the benefits of plasma without any of the drawbacks- there is no doubt that Apple will move over to one of the OLED panels for their products- it is simply superior technology(not just Apple, everyone will be leaving LCD and Plasma for that matter, behind).
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
The reason why 800x480 isn't good enough any more is cus of the much larger screens they moved to. The latest competition to the iPhone has larger screen but lower rez.

I'm aware of this. I've owned most of those phones. My point is that while Apple is guilty of having a phone with a great resolution, but too small of a screen, other manufacturers are guilty of having good screen sizes, with a resolution that doesn't match it. None of them have "got it right" just yet. Maybe a higher resolution 4" S-AMOLED? Maybe, but we haven't seen it yet.
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
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2
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I don't see how that analogy is relevant. A smartphone with a 2" screen is unusable, while a smartphone that is 3.5" is not. I owned an EVO before the iP4 and I would have to say that I miss the larger screen, but on top of this I love the higher resolution. Hopefully in the future we can get both.

My point was an exaggeration in order to highlight that size does matter. You were quick to say that 2 inches is unusable but where is the point that it begins to be usable? Would it be 3 inches, 3.3 inches? If, say, 3 inches is the starting point of usability then does it not stand to reason that bigger than 3 inches would be more usable?

If portability were not an issue you would want the largest display possible but for a phone portability is an issue so the size has to be somewhat less than infinite. For 20 plus years the year-over-year trend was to make phones smaller and so long as it was only a phone that was fine, but when you demand more of a phone, a smart phone, then the 2 inch displays of the Razor etc just don't cur it. The old paradigm of smaller is better is so ingrained that it is the default position of many even as they have to see that larger is more usable.

So, there will be a range of sizes based on what individual customers feel is the right size for them, but there will always be a trade off between small size and usability. The phone makers will continue to produce larger phone until they are too big and too few buy them. I hope they continue to offer the smaller less usable phones but once again, if the volume is insufficient they will drop the smaller ones to concentrate on what is selling.

I've played around with different sizes using AutoCAD and for me 5 inches will likely be my sweet spot so long as the bezel is kept to a minimum. I'm not so hung up on thinness that I will easily sacrifice battery life, and, in addition, I think the really thin phones are more difficult to hold even though they tend to be lighter. You could make a 5 inch phone that's just over a quarter inch wider than the iPhone but about 5/8 inch longer. I wouldn't make the phone thicker than needed but I'd want a battery of at least 2500mAHr capacity. And, back to the resolution, I'll repeat that I'd want 1920x1280 or, perhaps 1920x1080.

I'd guess that 5 years from now the average smart phone will be over 4 inches and probably closer to 4.3 inches but there will likely still be a few small ones in the 3.5 inch range as well as some pushing beyond 5 inches.


Brian
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
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No, it is grossly inferior. Besides the obvious- clearly inferior contrast and weaker colors IPS displays are also significantly slower then SAMOLED. Anyone who claims that having 300dpi is a major advantage should have eyes easily good enough to notice the fairly bad streaking of LCDs. What some people are currently doing is saying that an IPS display with four times the pixel density is just as good- it has different strengths, but trying to state that IPS is comparable to SAMOLED is absurd. SAMOLED has almost all of the benefits of plasma without any of the drawbacks- there is no doubt that Apple will move over to one of the OLED panels for their products- it is simply superior technology(not just Apple, everyone will be leaving LCD and Plasma for that matter, behind).

I don't want oversaturated colors. I want colors that are true to life. From reviews ive seen of the galaxy the whites have a blue tint. Just because OLEDs are fast that doesn't mean that IPS displays are slow, especially for cellphone use. The only area where I could see a fast responsive screen is necessary is if you're playing an FPS on a phone.

From every review I've seen and test myself I have not seen streaking or ghosting being exhibited. You're assumption of a retina display not being noticeable is an exaggeration. Maybe some can't tell as easily, but a 300dpi screen down to something like a 200dpi is like night and day.

The point is SAMOLED screens are nice, especially for movies, but it is not vastly superior to an IPS display.


My point was an exaggeration in order to highlight that size does matter. You were quick to say that 2 inches is unusable but where is the point that it begins to be usable? Would it be 3 inches, 3.3 inches? If, say, 3 inches is the starting point of usability then does it not stand to reason that bigger than 3 inches would be more usable?

Your exaggeration makes the point irrelevant because the 3.5" screen on the iPhone is smaller, not small. So the comparison doesn't make sense.

I think having a 4"+ screen is a plus, so I'm not against that. I'm just saying that I would prefer a 4" or maybe even a 5", but at a 300dpi resolution.
 
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jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
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Apple's premier e-reading device, the iPad, has a screen DPI measurement lower than most smartphones, and far lower than the IP4. So even Apple doesn't believe their own marketing BS.

I was reading on my Droid X using Aldiko this morning; I didn't notice any pixel structure and I was using a larger font size. Then again, I held the device at arm's length like a typical book, not against my nose.
 

MrX8503

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2005
4,529
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Apple's premier e-reading device, the iPad, has a screen DPI measurement lower than most smartphones, and far lower than the IP4. So even Apple doesn't believe their own marketing BS.

I was reading on my Droid X using Aldiko this morning; I didn't notice any pixel structure and I was using a larger font size. Then again, I held the device at arm's length like a typical book, not against my nose.

The iPad was created after the iPhone4. Quite frankly the low dpi on the iPad hurts my eyes.

300dpi is not BS. Pick up a magazine, its printed at 300dpi.
 

Deeko

Lifer
Jun 16, 2000
30,213
12
81
Apple's premier e-reading device, the iPad, has a screen DPI measurement lower than most smartphones, and far lower than the IP4. So even Apple doesn't believe their own marketing BS.

I was reading on my Droid X using Aldiko this morning; I didn't notice any pixel structure and I was using a larger font size. Then again, I held the device at arm's length like a typical book, not against my nose.

Where I notice it most on my HD2 and Epic is the opposite - reading small text. Trying to scan the text of a website that's zoomed out, for example. The letters are somewhat legible, but they look pretty bad. Higher resolution would help that out a lot.

And you're correct - the iPad (and the forthcoming Galaxy S Tab) have terrible resolutions.
 

kaerflog

Golden Member
Jul 23, 2010
1,899
4
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Have you seen an IPS display next to a SAMOLED? I can't remember where I saw the review, but they perform the same in direct sunlight. So I'm not sure what you mean by looking washed out? SAMOLED is hype, it increases contrast and deeper blacks. An IPS display is just as good. I have an IPS display for my desktop and I love it.

Of course I have.
I owned a Captivate and I have compared it to an ip4 many times.
I think the screen on the ip4 is great.
Its just that when you hold the ip4 next to a s-amoled screen, it looks a little washout cause the s-amoled screen is much richer in colors.
I'm just disputing another poster saying the ip4 screen is better than any other screen out there.
I think the ip4 screen is a close 2nd.

galaxy-s-vs-iphone4.jpg