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How about poplulation control in America?

Chunkee

Chunkee

Lifer
This is a worthy topic I believe. There are many things to consider here:

1. Crime
2. The horrible and troubling welfare system.
3. Pollution
4. Taxes

This topic was spurred by my 17 year old drop out nephew having his son. He is barely working, his GF quit her job, they both live with her mother. They have no clue on how to raise and care for a child, will not give it up for adoption. Spent her last paycheck on a car stereo, she has decided NOT to breast feed, even though it is FREE and is the best thing for the child. My whole family is concerned for the baby, yet we cannot do anything or talk sense in to them.

This is just one of many of a common scenario that frequents society. People having children that are unable to take care of them.

You need a license to hunt, fish, drive, get married, etc, but you do not need one to be a parent. In fact there is an incentive...have children that you cannot take care of, and WE will be forced to take care of it. Have more, and you will get more money.

I love my children. I have two. I can take care of them both financially and mentally.

I also work next to a Pediatric Gastroenterologist...and everyday I see so many little children with their grandparents brining them in and/or raising them. Many of the others are just so God aweful...they pull up with their cigarettes hanging out of their mouth, with all the windows closed up, and an infant in the back. OR the children are older and they are yelling at them and saying horrible things to them.

This truly creates a viscious cycle, one that postulates responsibility on taxpayers both monetarily and mentally.

Even though it will never happen, it truly does seem to be a good way to help curb many of the problems in our society, if we were to impose a population control as well as a regulatory movement for parenting.

Thoughts?

JC
 
The dangers of not allowing proper sex education in the schools. This country has a huge hang-up on talking about sex even though it's a naturally-occurring part of our lives.
 
Two problems: a) your nephew has only one kid, your plan would have no effect on him or prevent the situation in the least.
b) you want to punish people financially for not having enough money to raise a kid?!...If the third kid is born, you are adding another financial burden which will have immediate effects on all three kid's way of life.
Your plan stinks :thumbsdown:
I will address population control below.
 
Are you crazy? You people better start having as many kids as possible as soon as possible. They'll be needed to prop up your retirement just like in the "good old days". 😉

And we're going to need every person we can get to compete in the new "globalized" economy too. Better to have 12 kids earning substandard poverty wages in a sweatshop than only 2.

 
Originally posted by: Stunt
Two problems: a) your nephew has only one kid, your plan would have no effect on him or prevent the situation in the least.
b) you want to punish people financially for not having enough money to raise a kid?!...If the third kid is born, you are adding another financial burden which will have immediate effects on all three kid's way of life.
Your plan stinks :thumbsdown:
I will address population control below.
Click to expand...

your reaction stinks you momo

re-read it...

b) you want to punish people financially for not having enough money to raise a kid?

I am making a statement jerko, that taxpayers are paying way too much for the busting GHETTO kids...that have more and more and the cycle continues....they have more and more that drain our society and burden others... most live the same life or go to crime.

I am also saying, that IF YOU HAVE BABIES, TAKE CARE OF THEM!!!

the 2 limit proposition is just to help curb what is really getting out of hand.

 
Originally posted by: BBond
Are you crazy? You people better start having as many kids as possible as soon as possible. They'll be needed to prop up your retirement just like in the "good old days". 😉

And we're going to need every person we can get to compete in the new "globalized" economy too. Better to have 12 kids earning substandard poverty wages in a sweatshop than only 2.
Click to expand...

If there is going to be any population control - it'll be the removal of the deadbeat leaches. You know -the ones like you who think they are entitled to other people's money just because you are old.

Ofcourse this won't happen, but if population control was to be implemented - i'd say we start at the far end of the spectrum instead of the near... IF I believed in gov't population control that is...😀

CsG
 
Deadbeat leaches? You ungrateful piker. The money I'm collecting from Social Security is the over $200,000 contributed by myself and my employer over a lifetime of work. And that's not even counting the average rate of return for Social Security which is at three percent, IIRC.

Why don't you do the math, piker, and tell me what the compound interest is on $200LARGE over 40 years? Then tell me who is leaching of off whom with their ridiculous Social Security destruction plan.

In the meantime keep your a$$ at work and make sure you keep those cards and letters coming.

 
I decided to separate the posts as there are two issues proposed in your post, one on the micro level and the other on the macro.

Population control in the US and the first world is far more reasonable of an idea than population control in the third world.
While the 3rd world does have 2/3rds of the global population, one must understand why.
Overpopulation is NOT the problem, overconsumption is (to levels that are NOT sustainable).

1 american consumes the same as 10 chinese/east indians.
now this is not to say that population will not play a role in the future, but putting all our problems on overpopulation is a moot point when the vast majority of consumables, resources, pollution and energy goes to a small percentage of the population (G7).

I find it ironic that people in the 1st world criticize the the 3rd for not control population because they WILL destroy the earth with methods we practice. And why would they not follow our example? They all want our lifestyle. This is where we must step it up and show that we can be sustainable, and they must as well.

People tend to have tons of kids because of poverty.
Unlike the US where people must provide for their kids, kids are able to bring food and money into the family.
Having a kid is like having another employee. As famine and disease rises, the less likely the kids will last or be useful, so they decide to have more kids, to them this makes logical sense. More people = more money.
Now, another key part of the equation is the lack of social security in the thrid world, their retirement plan is living off their kids.
Having several kids provide makes much more sense as they will be able to provide and are more likely to survive in old age.

We have the social infrastucture to allow people to live without children supporting us. The third world does not have this luxury.

So all of you may be wondering, what is the solution to all this?
Help stimulate business in the third world under very social regimes (taxation and social programs, not trade), allow good education, employment, retirement programs; the birth rate will decline significantly, just as it did for us during the industrial revolution.
Develop technologies here to allow for sustainable environment and export these technologies in colaboration with the rest of the world to minimize pollution. (kyoto tried this, but far too many loopholes, good in principle) As far as we are concerned, we should not endorse children domestically, everyone should have the right to kids, but i'd rather see a skilled trained immigrant help the economy than a poor kid being a drain on society. Also, with 50% divorce rates and more single parents, it is more difficult than ever raising kids in quality atmospheres.
 
Originally posted by: Chunkee
Originally posted by: Stunt
Two problems: a) your nephew has only one kid, your plan would have no effect on him or prevent the situation in the least.
b) you want to punish people financially for not having enough money to raise a kid?!...If the third kid is born, you are adding another financial burden which will have immediate effects on all three kid's way of life.
Your plan stinks :thumbsdown:
I will address population control below.
Click to expand...

your reaction stinks you momo

re-read it...

b) you want to punish people financially for not having enough money to raise a kid?

I am making a statement jerko, that taxpayers are paying way too much for the busting GHETTO kids...that have more and more and the cycle continues....they have more and more that drain our society and burden others... most live the same life or go to crime.

I am also saying, that IF YOU HAVE BABIES, TAKE CARE OF THEM!!!

the 2 limit proposition is just to help curb what is really getting out of hand.
Click to expand...
How does my reaction stink?...I read the OP just fine.
You want to give a financial penalty for having more kids.
This will not work except draining an already poor family of limited resources to raise their kids.

Using your nephew as an example...you think he can afford to pay another tax?
what if he had 2 more kids...
obviously you didnt think this though logically.😛

Insult some more...it will get you far around here...
You had to expect some criticism...i mean you ARE posting on a forum...you can't be that naive.
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Deadbeat leaches? You ungrateful piker. The money I'm collecting from Social Security is the over $200,000 contributed by myself and my employer over a lifetime of work. And that's not even counting the average rate of return for Social Security which is at three percent, IIRC.

Why don't you do the math, piker, and tell me what the compound interest is on $200LARGE over 40 years? Then tell me who is leaching of off whom with their ridiculous Social Security destruction plan.

In the meantime keep your a$$ at work and make sure you keep those cards and letters coming.
Click to expand...

A. You did not pay the same tax rate we are paying now for all of your 40 years.
B. You cant claim money from your employer. So you may have put in 100K over 40 years. Do the math that is about 2500 a year. For this 2500 a year you will be drawing on avg about 950 bucks a month. It will take you 10 years to recoup your losses at the cost of putting more burden on the taxx payers.
C. Funny you bring up compounding interest on that 200 big ones. With SS it went negative.
D. You are a leech of our system. You are drawing from a social program that is funded by people who arent eligible for it. In fact you arent really any better than the welfare recipient. The only difference is the welfare recpient actually has to qualify as a leech where you are automatically considered a leech by your age.


As for the OP. Population control will serve nothing and in fact could in the long run hurt the economic viability of this country.



 
No population control. Why?

1) If every generation has more kids than the last, it would permanantly solve the S.S. debate.

2) We get to have lots of sex. Now all sides can agree on that, can't they? 😉
 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: BBond
Deadbeat leaches? You ungrateful piker. The money I'm collecting from Social Security is the over $200,000 contributed by myself and my employer over a lifetime of work. And that's not even counting the average rate of return for Social Security which is at three percent, IIRC.

Why don't you do the math, piker, and tell me what the compound interest is on $200LARGE over 40 years? Then tell me who is leaching of off whom with their ridiculous Social Security destruction plan.

In the meantime keep your a$$ at work and make sure you keep those cards and letters coming.
Click to expand...

A. You did not pay the same tax rate we are paying now for all of your 40 years.
B. You cant claim money from your employer. So you may have put in 100K over 40 years. Do the math that is about 2500 a year. For this 2500 a year you will be drawing on avg about 950 bucks a month. It will take you 10 years to recoup your losses at the cost of putting more burden on the taxx payers.
C. Funny you bring up compounding interest on that 200 big ones. With SS it went negative.
D. You are a leech of our system. You are drawing from a social program that is funded by people who arent eligible for it. In fact you arent really any better than the welfare recipient. The only difference is the welfare recpient actually has to qualify as a leech where you are automatically considered a leech by your age.


As for the OP. Population control will serve nothing and in fact could in the long run hurt the economic viability of this country.
Click to expand...

Social Security isn't a welfare system. Period. I paid the highest rate possible for the last 20 years of my working life and now I'm enjoying the fruits of my labor. And just knowing that sending me that check every month, FOR WELL OVER THE AMOUNT YOU STATED, is burning you up makes it all the more enjoyable.

Keep working and keep on sending those cards and letters, kid. God willing, I plan on collecting on my investment for a long time to come. And you really have no choice in the matter.

🙂

 
It always amazes me that some people are willing to throw their liberties away for expedience or economy. How very... pragmatic. Hell, why not just toss out the Bill of Rights, it would make crime go down a ton :roll:

 
I have 4 kids, my wife and I are educated, fully employed parents. We are not financially strapped. Why should I be penalized for having more than 2 kids.

And IIRC the population in this country is getting older, you need more kids to take up the slack in the work environment when the baby boomers start retiring.
 
I'd rather have an massive increasing population than a decreasing population through population control. If we're going to have population control it shouldn't be to restrict people from having kids but from kicking out the dregs of the US society and allowing more productive people from around the world become new members of this society.
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
It always amazes me that some people are willing to throw their liberties away for expedience or economy. How very... pragmatic. Hell, why not just toss out the Bill of Rights, it would make crime go down a ton :roll:
Click to expand...

Please explain to me how collectin a benefit promised to me that I paid for all my working life equates to giving up my liberties? And what does Social Security have to do with tossing out the Bill of Rights?
 
Originally posted by: BBond
Originally posted by: cwjerome
It always amazes me that some people are willing to throw their liberties away for expedience or economy. How very... pragmatic. Hell, why not just toss out the Bill of Rights, it would make crime go down a ton :roll:
Click to expand...

Please explain to me how collectin a benefit promised to me that I paid for all my working life equates to giving up my liberties? And what does Social Security have to do with tossing out the Bill of Rights?
Click to expand...


My post was a direct response to the OP's position. I didn't catch your SS discussion.
 
Originally posted by: CPA
I have 4 kids, my wife and I are educated, fully employed parents. We are not financially strapped. Why should I be penalized for having more than 2 kids.

And IIRC the population in this country is getting older, you need more kids to take up the slack in the work environment when the baby boomers start retiring.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

An improving demographic will only help, IMO.
 
Originally posted by: cwjerome
It always amazes me that some people are willing to throw their liberties away for expedience or economy. How very... pragmatic. Hell, why not just toss out the Bill of Rights, it would make crime go down a ton :roll:
Click to expand...

that is assanine if i ever heard one. extremist momo
 
Social Security isn't a welfare system. Period. I paid the highest rate possible for the last 20 years of my working life and now I'm enjoying the fruits of my labor. And just knowing that sending me that check every month, FOR WELL OVER THE AMOUNT YOU STATED, is burning you up makes it all the more enjoyable.

Keep working and keep on sending those cards and letters, kid. God willing, I plan on collecting on my investment for a long time to come. And you really have no choice in the matter.
Click to expand...

You are getting a handout, that is welfare.
They put a happy smiley face on it and call it Social Security so the old bags in this country arent offended. As long as you are happy being a leech on this society then more power to you.

 
Originally posted by: Genx87
Social Security isn't a welfare system. Period. I paid the highest rate possible for the last 20 years of my working life and now I'm enjoying the fruits of my labor. And just knowing that sending me that check every month, FOR WELL OVER THE AMOUNT YOU STATED, is burning you up makes it all the more enjoyable.

Keep working and keep on sending those cards and letters, kid. God willing, I plan on collecting on my investment for a long time to come. And you really have no choice in the matter.
Click to expand...

You are getting a handout, that is welfare.
They put a happy smiley face on it and call it Social Security so the old bags in this country arent offended. As long as you are happy being a leech on this society then more power to you.
Click to expand...

You are falling into the pattern of generational warfare that is at the heart of the GOP's strategy to destroy any and all programs that are for working people.

How can you call a program that I contributed to for over 40 years welfare?

Your attempt to incite an argument won't work because your premise is just too ridiculous to consider seriously.

Didn't anyone ever tell you to respect your elders? And don't you realize that any society that disrespects its elders is doomed?

Why would people work all of their lives waiting for those promised "golden years" if they know it's all just a shell game run by the same people making the promises? You are advocating the breakdown of society because you're too greedy to keep your end of a bargain that U.S. workers have benefited from for over 70 years.

Shame on a generation that considers their elders a useless drain on their finances rather than the resource they really are. Keep living and the day will come when you are old too. I'm sure your tune will change when it's you who is the brunt of the age discrimination.


 
Pulling out of the system is being a leech on the system. If you cant handle this simple fact then maybe you should stop taking the handout and let somebody who needs it get it.

Respect is earned btw not given out. Your inability to present a logical argument since you showed up has pretty much detroyed your chances of respect from me.

Why would people work all of their lives waiting for those promised "golden years" if they know it's all just a shell game run by the same people making the promises? You are advocating the breakdown of society because you're too greedy to keep your end of a bargain that U.S. workers have benefited from for over 70 years.
Click to expand...

ohh the irony, that is a good question. Why are younger workers paying into this scam so old people like you can rape it? At best we can expect higher taxes and cut benefits. At worse the whole system collapses along with the United States economy. I think we both have the same question that needs to be answered.

Shame on a generation that considers their elders a useless drain on their finances rather than the resource they really are. Keep living and the day will come when you are old too. I'm sure your tune will change when it's you who is the brunt of the age discrimination.
Click to expand...

Hey did you know not only do old people suck the SS dry but about 70% of medicals costs are spent during the last two years of a persons life?

I have come to grips with the economic reality of me getting old and my affect on a society. You however are still liviing in a dreamland where everything is cheery.

 
What do you think we ended up with? In 1983 the Republicans claimed they "fixed" Social Security. They raised taxes and retirement ages and cut benefits. We paid the increased taxes and took the extra years of work and reduced benefits in stride. Now you expect people who did exactly what they were asked to do to give up their hard earned benefits while you erroneously, maliciously, and insultingly refer to us as leeches?

You're the leech. You and your greed.

They called my parent's generation the greatest generation. This generation coming up, filled with whiners like you, will be known as the worst generation. Greedy, spoiled, insulting, divisive brats.
 
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