HOV / Carpool lanes . . . good idea but dont' work

[Lithium381]

Just wondering your perspective on this and why states are still implementing these. An HOV lane for those of you lucky enough to not know what they are are lanes in which only people with two(sometimes three) or more people are allowed to drive in during certain times of the day, typically rush hour.

Here in the bay area the left lane is CARPOOL only from 5-9am and from 3-7pm. On its premise, it's supposed to encourage people to carpool and save the environment but I think it's actually causing the opposite effect.

Between 3-4:30 around here on 101 the carpool lane us under-utilized while the other three lanes are stopped or move at 5mph. Assuming that the HOV lane is only 25% used, that's another 18% of the freeway that we could put cars in.

It's no magic that cars get better gas mileage at 15mph than they do at 0mph, and 18% better is 3mph more! Think of all of the cars just sitting at idle for NO REASON. If everyone got home 18% faster we would save so much on pollution and gas, people would be much happier and productive!

Reduce the HOV from 3-7pm to 5-7!!! This would also help congestion by getting people out of the way more quickly, thus less traffic!

Its good idea in theory but seems actually counterproductive to the effort

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Just wondering your perspective on this and why states are still implementing these. An HOV lane for those of you lucky enough to not know what they are are lanes in which only people with two(sometimes three) or more people are allowed to drive in during certain times of the day, typically rush hour.

Here in the bay area the left lane is CARPOOL only from 5-9am and from 3-7pm. On its premise, it's supposed to encourage people to carpool and save the environment but I think it's actually causing the opposite effect.

Between 3-4:30 around here on 101 the carpool lane us under-utilized while the other three lanes are stopped or move at 5mph. Assuming that the HOV lane is only 25% used, that's another 18% of the freeway that we could put cars in.

It's no magic that cars get better gas mileage at 15mph than they do at 0mph, and 18% better is 3mph more! Think of all of the cars just sitting at idle for NO REASON. If everyone got home 18% faster we would save so much on pollution and gas, people would be much happier and productive!

Reduce the HOV from 3-7pm to 5-7!!! This would also help congestion by getting people out of the way more quickly, thus less traffic!

Its good idea in theory but seems actually counterproductive to the effort

Reduce ,or get rid of entirely. Seem to prove completely ineffective.

Hell, in today's economy I know more and more people car pooling purely for the financial reasons, but we don't have such lanes here.

 

[Capt Caveman]

When I lived in the Bay Area, I loved it. I used to live in Berkeley in work in downtown SF. I would do the casual carpool.

For those that don't know what it is, it's an informal carpool that developed where people line-up in particular locations and people that are driving over the bridge into SF can pick-up riders to reach the 3 person limit to use the HOV lane and get into the city in 20 minutes which would be at least half the time if you drove alone.

 

[shortylickens]

In my region people just abuse the lanes. And the cops dont do anything except ticket them, cuz they arent interested in safety, only revenue.

 

[Lithium381]

but the point was to reduce pollution, theyv'e been in effect for what, 15 years now and just simple logic as pointed out in the OP shows that they do the opposite!!! who benefits from this?

 

[WackyDan]

What you miss in your analysis is that sooner or later those car pool lanes have merge back into the normal lanes.

If they were open to more traffic then you'd have an even bigger cluster F*ck and delay of one more lane merging down the road with the others with even more traffic on it.

The answer isn't clear. More lanes and longer lanes extended to the burbs would be part of it... Light Rail, part of it...encouraging companies to let more employees work from home or shift their hours of work... like some companies do in Atlanta.

It is all expensive, but if you want to address the traffic problem, they all have to be done.

 

[Deeko]

They're a nice perk for people that are carpooling, but I don't think they really accomplish their goal of convincing people to carpool...ah well.

 

[fskimospy]

In my region people just abuse the lanes. And the cops dont do anything except ticket them, cuz they arent interested in safety, only revenue.

What else should the cops do? And why is a single rider abusing a car pool lane a safety issue?

That being said, I've never been a big fan of HOV lanes. They aren't fast enough to actually change behavior in my experience and when they aren't optimally used they just eat up valuable lane space.

 

[alkemyst]

It's revenue generation, nothing about helping.

 

[fskimospy]

It's revenue generation, nothing about helping.

Unlikely. What evidence do you have that HOV lanes are a revenue generating tactic as opposed to a traffic relief issue?

 

[soccerballtux]

in Atlanta the speed limit on 285 is 55MPH.
Set the speed limit to 75MPH and you could move 40% more traffic.

 

[hal2kilo]

In my region people just abuse the lanes. And the cops dont do anything except ticket them, cuz they arent interested in safety, only revenue.

What else are they supposed to do? Shoot them dead onsite?

 

[fskimospy]

in Atlanta the speed limit on 285 is 55MPH.
Set the speed limit to 75MPH and you could move 40% more traffic.

I'm pretty sure that's not how traffic patterns work.

 

[Slew Foot]

LOL at you suckers who have to commute on the peninsula

 

[3chordcharlie]

What should make most people feel better, is that there is worse gridlock in other places. Which means we have not yet discovered how bad things must get before people give up the single-occupant commute, or live closer to where they work.

As far as I can tell 'length of commute' is not in the top-10 for reasons why people select their homes and/or jobs.

 

[alkemyst]

Unlikely. What evidence do you have that HOV lanes are a revenue generating tactic as opposed to a traffic relief issue?

Well because bro it's actually causing less lanes available and unless you can PAY for the sticker (which also requires a minimum MPG rating) or just do like I do and pay the $168 ticket you get about 1-2x a year; the only way you are using those lanes is by contributing revenue.

Also another interesting thing they did is convert on of the lanes on I95 which was built by us tax-payers as a 'toll free' highway to an Express Lane system. The Express Lane cost more to enter the more traffic is backed up. That is a pure revenue generator.

I don't mind it, I'd pay $100 a week to have a special lane that only those that pay can get into.

 

[fskimospy]

Well because bro it's actually causing less lanes available and unless you can PAY for the sticker (which also requires a minimum MPG rating) or just do like I do and pay the $168 ticket you get about 1-2x a year; the only way you are using those lanes is by contributing revenue.

Also another interesting thing they did is convert on of the lanes on I95 which was built by us tax-payers as a 'toll free' highway to an Express Lane system. The Express Lane cost more to enter the more traffic is backed up. That is a pure revenue generator.

I don't mind it, I'd pay $100 a week to have a special lane that only those that pay can get into.

Neither of your examples show that such lanes were created for the purpose of revenue generation. Express lanes are an interesting concept to address congestion, and charging for access is required for it to work, much as ticketing those who drive in HOV lanes is required for their operation.

 

[alkemyst]

The lanes work. No doubt about that in many places. In many place though they need more lanes then take away a lane for HOV.

I am focused on RUSH hour traffic in S. Florida. Most commuters are screwed unless they buy (*wink wink*) an efficient commuter.

IMHO this is about revenue.

The main problem is even express lanes are abused here. So from my experience it's causing a problem.

However that's why I start my commute after 9am and after 6pm.

 

[CrackRabbit]

San Diego did things right when they installed the HOV lanes for Interstate 15. The lanes are toll or HOV.
You have a FasTrak pass you can use it as a toll expressway. If you have enough people in your vehicle you can use it without being charged.
http://fastrak.511sd.com/GettingStarted.aspx

 

[Lithium381]

San Diego did things right when they installed the HOV lanes for Interstate 15. The lanes are toll or HOV.
You have a FasTrak pass you can use it as a toll expressway. If you have enough people in your vehicle you can use it without being charged.
http://fastrak.511sd.com/GettingStarted.aspx

They are installing that on 237 and other local expressways around here as well. Bogus if you ask me. If it's about revenue why aren't they doing it on all the lanes, just charge you to drive (other than the $1/gallon gas tax). It's a farce that they tried to make it sound like an environmental issue. based on my non-scientific view, it casuss more pollution than it can possibly attempt to reduce. It's getting out of control how much "revenue" the state is trying to take in.

 

[Lithium381]

From the California Department of Transportation:

Q How congested are the freeways in California? A. According to a 1995 State Highway Congestion Monitoring Program report (the most recent year available), there was a total of 315,476 VHDPD (vehicle hours of delay per day) on urban area freeways in California due to "recurrent" congestion. Recurrent congestion is defined as a condition lasting for 15 minutes or longer where travel demand exceeds freeway design capacity. That typically means freeway speeds were 35 mph or less during peak commute periods on a typical incident-free weekday. "Non-recurrent" congestion is defined as backups caused by special circumstances, such as accidents, stalled vehicles, sporting events, etc. Studies show that non-recurrent delay can be equal or greater than recurrent delay. The report found that recurrent and non-recurrent congestion combined meant California motorists in 1995 used an extra 1.1 million gallons of fuel per day due to urban freeway congestion. The increased travel time and extra fuel cost motorists about $5.9 million per day.

that was 1995, i'm sure the price of gas and the number of cars will make that number MUCH bigger

 

[alkemyst]

google

 

[Baked]

Just make civilian cars illegal and force all the fatties to ride their bike or take public transit to work. Win.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

in Atlanta the speed limit on 285 is 55MPH.
Set the speed limit to 75MPH and you could move 40% more traffic.

You serious?

During non-peak time, the unofficial speed limit is 75mph anyways.

During peak times, it is stop and go in many parts, so you couldn't go 75mph anyway.

 

[shortylickens]

Just make civilian cars illegal and force all the fatties to ride their bike or take public transit to work. Win.

Ok, so what about the skinny civilians?