Housing 2008/2009 Thread

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351Cleveland

Golden Member
Apr 14, 2001
1,381
6
81
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The Bush supporters in here have been lambasting the poor working folks of the U.S. since this housing/credit bust has started as their own fault.

Although I am a conservative, I am not a Bush supporter. However, I will meet your call.

ANYONE who buys a house that is a) beyond their ability to pay, or b) is poorly financed is TOO STUPID to own a home. I dont care how much you make, what race you are, where you live, etc. You are an idiot and should not reproduce.

I could care less about the credit crunch or the housing market. I bought a modest house that we live in and do quite well with. I financed it with a 30 year fixed mortgage and I make my payments. If I lost my job, I could STILL pay for my house for a couple years because I have also been saving money. I could afford twice as much house, but I'm not a MORON.


 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The Bush supporters in here have been lambasting the poor working folks of the U.S. since this housing/credit bust has started as their own fault.

Although I am a conservative, I am not a Bush supporter. However, I will meet your call.

ANYONE who buys a house that is a) beyond their ability to pay, or b) is poorly financed is TOO STUPID to own a home. I dont care how much you make, what race you are, where you live, etc. You are an idiot and should not reproduce.

I could care less about the credit crunch or the housing market. I bought a modest house that we live in and do quite well with. I financed it with a 30 year fixed mortgage and I make my payments. If I lost my job, I could STILL pay for my house for a couple years because I have also been saving money. I could afford twice as much house, but I'm not a MORON.

/queue the Dave response "Well said for someone spoon fed his whole life who has never had a financial struggle ever. Oh, and the rich have no business replying to this thread".

;)
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
1,304
0
0
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The Bush supporters in here have been lambasting the poor working folks of the U.S. since this housing/credit bust has started as their own fault.

Although I am a conservative, I am not a Bush supporter. However, I will meet your call.

ANYONE who buys a house that is a) beyond their ability to pay, or b) is poorly financed is TOO STUPID to own a home. I dont care how much you make, what race you are, where you live, etc. You are an idiot and should not reproduce.

I could care less about the credit crunch or the housing market. I bought a modest house that we live in and do quite well with. I financed it with a 30 year fixed mortgage and I make my payments. If I lost my job, I could STILL pay for my house for a couple years because I have also been saving money. I could afford twice as much house, but I'm not a MORON.

Nearly the same boat here. I bought a relatively cheap home for my area, made sure if things change (i.e. Cost of living increases) i could make payments - and still eat. I don't have a large savings, but i could make do for a little while if unemployed.


I wonder if the people who buy beyond what they can afford, are the same types who have huge credit card debt.....

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The Bush supporters in here have been lambasting the poor working folks of the U.S. since this housing/credit bust has started as their own fault.

Although I am a conservative, I am not a Bush supporter. However, I will meet your call.

ANYONE who buys a house that is a) beyond their ability to pay, or b) is poorly financed is TOO STUPID to own a home. I dont care how much you make, what race you are, where you live, etc. You are an idiot and should not reproduce.

I could care less about the credit crunch or the housing market. I bought a modest house that we live in and do quite well with. I financed it with a 30 year fixed mortgage and I make my payments. If I lost my job, I could STILL pay for my house for a couple years because I have also been saving money. I could afford twice as much house, but I'm not a MORON.

You're obviously a conservative that hasn't lost your job.

Good for you. Many Americans cannot say the same thing.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: 351Cleveland
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
The Bush supporters in here have been lambasting the poor working folks of the U.S. since this housing/credit bust has started as their own fault.

Although I am a conservative, I am not a Bush supporter. However, I will meet your call.

ANYONE who buys a house that is a) beyond their ability to pay, or b) is poorly financed is TOO STUPID to own a home. I dont care how much you make, what race you are, where you live, etc. You are an idiot and should not reproduce.

I could care less about the credit crunch or the housing market. I bought a modest house that we live in and do quite well with. I financed it with a 30 year fixed mortgage and I make my payments. If I lost my job, I could STILL pay for my house for a couple years because I have also been saving money. I could afford twice as much house, but I'm not a MORON.

You're obviously a conservative that hasn't lost your job.

Good for you. Many Americans cannot say the same thing.

I lol'd at work I was soooo close! Right church wrong pew ;)
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
WaMu scales back lending operations

WaMu scales back lending operations

The savings-and-loan association exits wholesale lending and closes home-loan centers.

April 8, 2008: 8:30 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Washington Mutual told employees Monday that it will exit the wholesale lending business and close home-loan centers nationwide.

Washington Mutual, the nation's largest savings-and-loan association, is taking those steps to focus on delivering home-lending products to customers through banking stores and online, a WaMu spokesperson said.

Sara Gaugl, WaMu spokesperson, told CNN that the bank will no longer work with third party brokers. She said WaMu also will close its remaining stand-alone Home Loan Centers.

Gaugl said the company has not posted specific information about how many stores and employees will be affected.

The bank is close to a deal with private-equity firm TPG and other investors to receive a $5 billion investment, according to The Wall Street Journal.

The infusion would help WaMu meet its pressing capital requirements as the bank faces steep losses stemming from the housing crisis.

WaMu (WM, Fortune 500) shares rose nearly 30% in active trade in Monday's session.

Good news for WaMu shareholders, bad news for mortgage brokers and borrowers dependent upon their wholesale offerings.
The industry continues to move back towards traditional banking models.

edit: ml-implode link
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
And... in my ongoing argument that real estate markets are location-specific...

Average Manhattan home hits record $1.6 million

Average Manhattan home hits record $1.6 million

The price of an average apartment in New York City hit a new high in the first quarter of 2008. Still, the red-hot market looks like it's starting to cool.

By Catherine Clifford, CNNMoney.com staff writer
Last Updated: April 2, 2008: 8:39 AM EDT

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Manhattan apartment prices hit fresh record highs in the first quarter of 2008, even as the rest of the country was reeling from the mortgage meltdown.

Four of the city's top real estate agencies released their figures for the first quarter of 2008 today. The reports indicate that strong sales in the city's booming luxury segment have been the market's main driver, but that overall sales are slowing.

Demand is high and supplies are tight for multi-million dollar luxury apartments in Manhattan, according to James Gricar, Executive VP, Director of Sales for Brown Harris Stevens. "A couple of transactions can really impact the average," he says.

The average price of a New York City apartment ranged from $1.63 million to $1.72 million in the first quarter of 2008, according to separate reports released Wednesday by Brown Harris Stevens, the Corcoran Group, Halstead Property and Prudential Douglas Elliman. That represents an increase of anywhere between 19% and 47% over average apartment prices for the first quarter of 2007.

If two of the most elite addresses with units on the market are excluded -- 15 Central Park West and The Plaza, the average prices comes down to $1.42 million.
Sales are mixed

The median price of a home in Manhattan - representing the midpoint of the market - rose to between $855,000 and $945,276, depending on the report. That's up 13% over the first quarter of 2007.

The median apartment price is rising significantly, despite mixed sales numbers, because "you have had a disproportionate sale of high end properties," says Jonathan Miller, President and CEO of Miller Samuel Real Estate Appraisers. Miller Samuel compiled data for all of Manhattan on behalf of Prudential Douglas Elliman.

"The price per room and the average price per square foot in 2 bedroom apartments is stable or slightly decreasing, while in 3 bedrooms is slightly increasing," Gricar said.

While Manhattan real estate generally bucks national real estate trends, even this rock-solid market is feeling the crunch. The number of sales in the first quarter of 2008 declined 34.3% from the first quarter of 2007, according to Miller Samuel Appraisers.

That drop is the largest that the firm has ever reported since it started measuring sales in 1989. This percentage dip is large not only because buyers are nervous in 2008, but also because 2007 was a record high year for New York City sales.
Wait and see

Even buyers who have more than enough money to purchase property in Manhattan are getting cold feet. "I am still struck by the sheer numbers of people who are ready to buy, but who are waiting to see what will happen," Miller says.

However, not everyone agrees that Manhattan is seeing a major sales slowdown.

"Buyers don't have the same sense of urgency -- they are more cautious, taking longer to make their decisions," says Corcoran Group CEO Pamela Liebman. Still, she says Corcoran had a strong quarter with a 5% sales increase.

But Brown Harris Stevens reported a 1% decrease in the number of closed sales in this quarter from a year ago. Gricar says that Brown Harris Stevens first quarter sales dip was smaller than what was reflected in the Miller Samuel report because Brown Harris works in the luxury market, where the sales levels tend to be more stable.

With the dollar hitting all time lows, there has been an increase in interest from foreign buyers which is also helping to buoy the New York City market, especially on the high end.

Liebman says Corcoran is seeing a lot of foreign buyers from London, Italy, and Korea. Foreign buyers are especially interested in name-brand addresses, like the Plaza and in buildings by famous architects -- or "starchitects," says Liebman.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
WM shareholders got their shares diluted big time, and new investors got in at well below market price.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: Vic
And... in my ongoing argument that real estate markets are location-specific...

So above you say that credit cutbacks are widespread, on a national level, which affects prices on a national level. Then you go on to say that a *very* anachronistic market is indicative of a regional issue?

That makes sense.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Originally posted by: senseamp
WM shareholders got their shares diluted big time, and new investors got in at well below market price.

And their company stays liquid. in the end, if the company went out of business they'd get nothing.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
WaMu scales back lending operations

WaMu scales back lending operations

The savings-and-loan association exits wholesale lending and closes home-loan centers.

Good news for WaMu shareholders, bad news for mortgage brokers and borrowers dependent upon their wholesale offerings.
The industry continues to move back towards traditional banking models.

edit: ml-implode link

Who authorized the move away from "traditional banking models" to begin with???
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
WaMu scales back lending operations

WaMu scales back lending operations

The savings-and-loan association exits wholesale lending and closes home-loan centers.

Good news for WaMu shareholders, bad news for mortgage brokers and borrowers dependent upon their wholesale offerings.
The industry continues to move back towards traditional banking models.

edit: ml-implode link

Who authorized the move away from "traditional banking models" to begin with???

God, Dave, it was God. :roll:
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: LegendKiller
Originally posted by: Vic
And... in my ongoing argument that real estate markets are location-specific...

So above you say that credit cutbacks are widespread, on a national level, which affects prices on a national level. Then you go on to say that a *very* anachronistic market is indicative of a regional issue?

That makes sense.

Of course it doesn't because it's not what I said. The credit crisis is international in size and scope and will have an impact on every housing market in the US. Housing markets themselves, however, remain local.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

But you can not write off the overall house because no 1099 status:brokenheart:
Nor the trips to Europe with the gf, etc

 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?

Already did, they said they go by their own values not the Realtors and banks.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?

Already did, they said they go by their own values not the Realtors and banks.

That's right. Especially since realtors and banks are not licensed certified real estate appraisers, while the county assessors on staff are. However, if your house is listed on the market right now, with an asking price less than what it's assessed at, and it's not selling within a reasonable time period, then you might have a case.
Don't expect it to be easy, you'll be fighting a local government bureaucracy.

Why do I do you these favors when you've never once done anything for me?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?

Already did, they said they go by their own values not the Realtors and banks.

That's right. Especially since realtors and banks are not licensed certified real estate appraisers, while the county assessors on staff are. However, if your house is listed on the market right now, with an asking price less than what it's assessed at, and it's not selling within a reasonable time period, then you might have a case.
Don't expect it to be easy, you'll be fighting a local government bureaucracy.

Why do I do you these favors when you've never once done anything for me?

Already did. They said that is our problem and the Mortgage Company's problem.

Mortgage Compnay is pretty pissed but hey it's what America wants.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?

Already did, they said they go by their own values not the Realtors and banks.

That's right. Especially since realtors and banks are not licensed certified real estate appraisers, while the county assessors on staff are. However, if your house is listed on the market right now, with an asking price less than what it's assessed at, and it's not selling within a reasonable time period, then you might have a case.
Don't expect it to be easy, you'll be fighting a local government bureaucracy.

Why do I do you these favors when you've never once done anything for me?

Already did. They said that is our problem and the Mortgage Company's problem.

Mortgage Compnay is pretty pissed but hey it's what America wants.

Why would it be your lender's problem? Why would they even care? Assuming your mortgage even has impounds, they'll just re-calc the escrow shortage per the strict instructions set by federal law.

Oh wait, you're just lying again.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?

Already did, they said they go by their own values not the Realtors and banks.

That's right. Especially since realtors and banks are not licensed certified real estate appraisers, while the county assessors on staff are. However, if your house is listed on the market right now, with an asking price less than what it's assessed at, and it's not selling within a reasonable time period, then you might have a case.
Don't expect it to be easy, you'll be fighting a local government bureaucracy.

Why do I do you these favors when you've never once done anything for me?

Already did. They said that is our problem and the Mortgage Company's problem.

Mortgage Compnay is pretty pissed but hey it's what America wants.

Why would it be your lender's problem? Why would they even care? Assuming your mortgage even has impounds, they'll just re-calc the escrow shortage per the strict instructions set by federal law.

Oh wait, you're just lying again.

Why would they care? Ask them not me.

They said it's considered a "short sale" when you can't get the original price of the mortgage.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Genx87
Got my assesment, down about 8K. Less taxation this year. Wont cry over it.

How did you do that?

Mine came yesterday and the country raised it $16,000

Odd since Realtors lowered the value $13,000.

So complain to your county assessor's office.

edit: Oh wait, that would be too easy! What was I thinking?

Already did, they said they go by their own values not the Realtors and banks.

That's right. Especially since realtors and banks are not licensed certified real estate appraisers, while the county assessors on staff are. However, if your house is listed on the market right now, with an asking price less than what it's assessed at, and it's not selling within a reasonable time period, then you might have a case.
Don't expect it to be easy, you'll be fighting a local government bureaucracy.

Why do I do you these favors when you've never once done anything for me?

Already did. They said that is our problem and the Mortgage Company's problem.

Mortgage Compnay is pretty pissed but hey it's what America wants.

Why would it be your lender's problem? Why would they even care? Assuming your mortgage even has impounds, they'll just re-calc the escrow shortage per the strict instructions set by federal law.

Oh wait, you're just lying again.

Why would they care? Ask them not me.

They said it's considered a "short sale" when you can't get the original price of the mortgage.

What? You're in foreclosure now?

Why am I not surprised?

edit: regardless, your lender still won't care about your assessment. That's your responsibility, not theirs.

And here's the pdf off OK's website with instructions to contest your assessment. You have until May 1st. Text
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,686
136
Nice of you to point Dave in the right direction, Vic.

Contesting a tax valuation successfully will vary wildly by locale and corcumstance. We did so successfully with our home some years ago, as the rest of the valuations in the neighborhood went up pretty fast. We did so on the basis of condition- it was one of the most rundown places in the neighborhood when we bought it. Denver accepted our photos and explanations readily, reduced the valuation somewhat for several years. As I brought the place up to snuff, particularly the exterior, they brought up the valuation.

I wouldn't expect any miracles, particularly not now when states and munis are facing cash shortfalls. Unless their valuation of a given property is out of line with others in the neighborhood, or there are special circumstances, you'll get nowhere. It's not that they really have to be accurate, just fair. If they're over-valuing all the properties, it'll be a tough sell on the homeowner's part.