House to reconsider 2012 light bulb ban

[werepossum]

Read again please, incandescent bulbs can still be manufactured and sold, They'll just be required to be more efficient. (kinda like your car's engine)

Yes, halogens can still be produced, but they tend to cost about as much as CFLs these days and are also generally not produced in America. On the flip side, a good halogen IR PAR can have an efficiency not far from a CFL PAR, and can still be a better choice in outside applications. But then CFLs will probably transition to LED more quickly than 'A' lamps.

The bulbs are probably machine made, tested by turning them on via machine, packaged into a the retail packaging by a machine, and put into boxes for shipping by a machine. There may be some human involvement in that process but how many jobs are we talking here?

Probably not that many, but they are still significant. American manufacturing is dying by such small cuts, not by great slashes (except right after NAFTA first passed.)

Rather than granting tax breaks for companies importing CFLs and LEDs, I'd like to see tax breaks for companies domestically manufacturing CFLs and LEDs.

 

[K1052]

some day we'll just have built in LED lighting for our closets and bathrooms. LEDs really need a different sort of mounting than the standard edison screw.

though i am concerned about how much LED stoplights actually cost. they're not supposed to burn out but i often come across lights with swathes of LEDs that aren't lighting up.

There is a further problem with LED stoplights....the LEDs don't produce enough heat to melt snow accumulation in some cases. It is likely that stoplights in cold climates will always be an incandescent application.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Because the company will pass along the loss in revenue to the consumer in the form of raised rates.

 

[soundforbjt]

passed in 2007 with bipartisan support and was signed into law by then-President George W. Bush.

Why do republicans hate incandescent light bulbs and want to destroy my free-dums?

 

[monovillage]

Check your facts. As for where it's made, why should the type of bulb determine that?

You should read more about the mercury vapor released by broken CFL bulbs.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/06/gee-ya-think-proof-of-what-many-have-said-for-years/

"Tests of eight different brands of CFLs and four different wattages revealed that Hg content varies significantly from brand to brand. To determine the amount of Hg released by a broken CFL, Li and Jin used standard procedures developed by the EPA to measure leaching of mercury in liquids and used an emission monitoring system to detect Hg vapor.

“This paper is a very nice holistic analysis of potential risks associated with mercury release from broken CFLs and points to potential human health threats that have not always been considered,” according to Domenico Grasso, PhD, Editor-in-Chief and Vice President for Research, Dean of the Graduate College, University of Vermont (Burlington)."

 

[Ldir]

Not a fan of free-will and being able to buy whatever bulb you deem fit?

This is America. Ignorant people have a constitutional right to make stupid short-sighted decisions contrary to their best interests. Otherwise Republicans would only get 1% of the votes.

The government has the right to set efficiency standards for goods. That's all they're doing here. Get over it.

 

[ElFenix]

Check your facts. As for where it's made, why should the type of bulb determine that?

mercury: CFL some in the bulb, incandescent, none

cost (up front, obviously): philips 60 watt bulb $0.32 each in a 4 pack, philips 60 watt equiv CFL $2 each (hey, down to 6x the cost)

life in a closet: can't remember the last time i changed the incandescent in the closet. same with the bathroom lights (6 bulbs or so) with only 1 burnout (just left it in the socket, dunno why i need 6 lights in there). CFL would have burned out several times by now. to quote tfp, everyone knows this.

where its made: to the extent that enviro restrictions are lax elsewhere it is a lot less expensive to make CFL bulbs in other places (not just the mercury, electronic ballasts also). i imagine that with the bulb being a bit more structurally sound CFLs are also easier to ship. whereas incandescents are made in the same old plant in ohio or wherever that they've been made forever.

 

[Jaskalas]

LOL. Ideology can be amusing.

Give me liberty, and a light bulb only an idiot and irresponsible person would prefer! And childrens' toys made of lead and mercury!
- Patrick Henry, paraphrased

It's the CFL you want shoved down our throats that have mercury.

 

[airdata]

I don't think this is an issue for government...

Government's should be using majority LED's since tax payers have to pay electricity and they use so much.

If a person wants to burn electricity at their house, that's their business.

 

[Craig234]

You should read more about the mercury vapor released by broken CFL bulbs.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/07/06/gee-ya-think-proof-of-what-many-have-said-for-years/

"Tests of eight different brands of CFLs and four different wattages revealed that Hg content varies significantly from brand to brand. To determine the amount of Hg released by a broken CFL, Li and Jin used standard procedures developed by the EPA to measure leaching of mercury in liquids and used an emission monitoring system to detect Hg vapor.

“This paper is a very nice holistic analysis of potential risks associated with mercury release from broken CFLs and points to potential human health threats that have not always been considered,” according to Domenico Grasso, PhD, Editor-in-Chief and Vice President for Research, Dean of the Graduate College, University of Vermont (Burlington)."

Well:

An incandescent bulb doesn't contain mercury, but it still has a higher overall mercury footprint than a CFL, thanks to the coiled tube's energy efficiency. Coal-fired power plants are humans' No. 1 source of mercury pollution, and energy-intensive incandescents make those plants burn more coal than CFLs do. That extra coal burning releases more mercury than the amount inside a CFL plus the coal emissions needed to light it.

Also, other choices like 'improved incandescent' don't appear to have mercury.

 

[BoberFett]

Dis is Ah-mur-ica!!! If ah wunt mer,... merc,... mero,.... bad stuff in mah light maker, dats mah chawce!!

It's the bulbs that Democrats want to force on us that have mercury in them. Incandescent bulbs are fairly benign.

You get dumber with each post. Go play in traffic.

 

[Craig234]

I don't think this is an issue for government...

Government's should be using majority LED's since tax payers have to pay electricity and they use so much.

If a person wants to burn electricity at their house, that's their business.

I'm shocked you're in Texas.

This is an 'issue for government'. Give me the compelling case for the old bulbs.

 

[Jaskalas]

Well:
An incandescent bulb doesn't contain mercury, but it still has a higher overall mercury footprint than a CFL, thanks to the coiled tube's energy efficiency. Coal-fired power plants are humans' No. 1 source of mercury pollution, and energy-intensive incandescents make those plants burn more coal than CFLs do. That extra coal burning releases more mercury than the amount inside a CFL plus the coal emissions needed to light it.

Right, electricity use is 'horrible' because of its production. How about those electric vehicles then?

 

[soundforbjt]

It's the bulbs that Democrats want to force on us that have mercury in them. Incandescent bulbs are fairly benign.

You get dumber with each post. Go play in traffic.

Uhhhh, A republican introduced this bill and a republican president signed it, I think there's room for one more out in the street.

 

[Craig234]

If your 'fact check' tells you CFL's burn out several times faster than an incandescent, you don't know what a fact check is, and it's a waste of time.

where its made: to the extent that enviro restrictions are lax elsewhere it is a lot less expensive to make CFL bulbs in other places (not just the mercury, electronic ballasts also). i imagine that with the bulb being a bit more structurally sound CFLs are also easier to ship. whereas incandescents are made in the same old plant in ohio or wherever that they've been made forever.

Not a very compelling case why different types of bulbs have to be made on different continents. I'd say unless you can find one, either can be made either place.

Environmental regulations and ease of shipping don't seem to dictate that IMO.

 

[Gonad the Barbarian]

I don't think this is an issue for government...

Government's should be using majority LED's since tax payers have to pay electricity and they use so much.

If a person wants to burn electricity at their house, that's their business.

You waste electricity, and my rates go up. See graph.

 

[soccerballtux]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/breaking/chi-house-to-reconsider-2012-light-bulb-ban-20110712,0,1218267.story



Someone should tell them that business are actually on board with this. The mandate has forced bulb makers to shift to CFL and LED which consume far less power and lower electrical bills and far live longer lives. The bulbs themselves are more expensive but the prices have been coming down steadily over the last few years and you don't have to waste time replacing at the rate of incandescent (saves on labor). Once they conquer the issues/cost with dimmable LED bulbs nobody is going to want incandescents any more at all.

your taking away the jobs of the people who replace the lightbulbs. Thats bad for the economy.

 

[Craig234]

Right, electricity use is 'horrible' because of its production. How about those electric vehicles then?

How about them? They *are* a lot worse for the environment than some understand.

http://theweek.com/article/index/216263/are-electric-cars-actually-bad-for-the-environment

 

[Jaskalas]

I'm shocked you're in Texas.

This is an 'issue for government'. Give me the compelling case for the old bulbs.

No mercury, they don't require 5 minutes to warm up.

We don't need a case, you won't change your mind, but your desire to remove our freedom of choice to use a perfectly functional and harmless light bulb is simply not acceptable.

The compelling reason you're looking for, is that we simply will not allow you to dictate to us.

 

[Craig234]

your taking away the jobs of the people who replace the lightbulbs. Thats bad for the economy.

In other news,

Unemployment is up for the Polish and blondes.

 

[soccerballtux]

Great Value (i.e. Walmart) incandescent lamps are made in the USA, whereas no CFLs are still made in the USA. (Hint: Something made in the USA means jobs in the USA. Banning these for something NOT made in the USA means a loss of jobs in the USA.)

Personally I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, there are a few places where incandescent lamps are still a better choice, and I really dislike government forcing me into a particular choice. Some of us are almost never smarter than all of us. On the other hand, CFLs are on balance much better for the environment; they do the same job for much less energy. In the end, I narrowly support the ban, but I really, really wish I could buy American-made CFLs.

just tax the incandescents more, that way you can still buy them for the closet. Craig123 should be able to get on board with that.

 

[Craig234]

No mercury, they don't require 5 minutes to warm up.

I won't bother with the mercury issue with you - improved incandescent have none.

We don't need a case, you won't change your mind, but your desire to remove our freedom of choice to use a perfectly functional and harmless light bulb is simply not acceptable.

The compelling reason you're looking for, is that we simply will not allow you to dictate to us.

So, you have no case for any legitimate need for the old, energy-expensive bulbs.

 

[DrPizza]

I want an incandescent light, and while I'm at it, I want an Oompa Loompa too. <stomps feet>

Jesus Christ, grow up. Incandescents are outdated. Go out and buy an air conditioner with Freon. Can you do that? No? Did big mean old government limit your choices there too? How about a car without seatbelts? No again? Well, maybe you can buy an 8 cylinder car with an old style, easy to work on carburetor. Wow, again, no. Yet, you have tons of choices of cars, tons of choices of air conditioners. And you STILL have a lot of choices for lights; it's just that one choice is being removed from the marketplace - they're inefficient & cause more pollution than the other choices. Yet, you actually have MORE choices of lightbulbs than your parents ever did, or grandparents. They didn't have a choice of CFLs. They didn't have a choice of Halogens. They didn't have a choice of LEDs.

Quit acting like a self-entitled little brat. Or is it an act...

 

[ElFenix]

If your 'fact check' tells you CFL's burn out several times faster than an incandescent, you don't know what a fact check is, and it's a waste of time.

as i've said in this thread already, there are certain cases of optimum use for CFLs. that is where i use mine. i don't think i've ever replaced one. they're in lamps that are on for hours at a time.

but, just reading anywhere about the downside to CFLs you will find that if they're on for only a few minutes at a time, and are turned on and off several times a day, they don't last.

Fluorescent lights are more expensive to buy, and their operating life is more affected by the number of times they are switched on and off, relative to incandescent lights. Therefore, it is a cost trade-off between saving energy and money by turning a light off "frequently" and having to replace the bulbs "more" frequently. This is because the reduction in usable lamp life due to frequent on/off switching will probably be greater than the benefit of extending the useful life of the bulb from reduced use. By frequent we mean turning the light off and on many times during the day.

http://www.energysavers.gov/your_home/lighting_daylighting/index.cfm/mytopic=12280


iow, the right tool for the job.

Not a very compelling case why different types of bulbs have to be made on different continents. I'd say unless you can find one, either can be made either place.

Environmental regulations and ease of shipping don't seem to dictate that IMO.

i'm not sure why i have to provide a compelling case as to why reality is how reality is. do you want me to show you a compelling case that we're not all a computer simulation?

 

[soccerballtux]

So, you have no case for any legitimate need for the old, energy-expensive bulbs.

everyone has a right to use the bulbs they want. thats all the case he needs. sorry bro.