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House Majority Whip: Positive Report by Petraeus Could Split House Democrats on War
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OrByte
Diamond Member
exactly.
public sentiment will NOT change...no matter the report. Blame it on the Iraqi puppet government, the media, the dems, the frackin tooth fairy....it won't matter.
The GOP WANTS to sink on this ship...its history repeating....its the whole "lockstep" approach the GOP has ALWAYS exhibited...a bunch of lemmings... Dems have always been smarter than the GOP...hence the anti-war position. Don't be upset about it wingers...just embrace the reality here. The war was lost the moment boots hit the ground in Iraq. The Dems knew it, the GOP followed their leaders like they ALWAYS do... and now you will see another decades worth of Democratic control. At least that long...because people won't forget how horribly screwed we all got by the GOP when Cheney and his mob were in control.
From Jrenz-
funny you'd say that... What was it that Bush vetoed a couple of months back?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITI...ngress.iraq/index.html
funny you'd say that... What was it that Bush vetoed a couple of months back?
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITI...ngress.iraq/index.html
Damn, PJ! You strut the most trivial crap like some street walker waving a sparkling new piece of bling, trying desperately to overcome her gutter level self image. Get a grip, child. Your Traitor In Chief is still the idiot who started this shit pile, and history will still hang it on him as his legacy like a scarlet letter.
Even though Faux Noise has permanently rendered the combination of "fair" and "balanced" meaningless in the same sentence, if you want a more informative, and fairly balanced view of the situation, see what the admin's new nominee to head the Joint Chiefs of Staff said to Senators during his confirmation hearings:
Bottom line -- No matter how much the "surge" appears to reduce armed attacks in the short run, our military is strained almost to the breaking point, and it can't be sustained.
No matter what they're able to accomplish militarily, it won't mean squat if the Iraqi's alleged government 's can't get their shit together between themselves.
That same alleged government just took off for a month long vacation, but not before the main Sunni Arab political bloc quit the Iraqi cabinet.
It may suprise you that I hope it all works out well for them, but I'm not holding my breath. If they aren't interested enough to keep working at it, I don't see any reason why we should continue spilling American blood just to make it easier for them to keep killing each other, not to mention more of our own troops.
Even though Faux Noise has permanently rendered the combination of "fair" and "balanced" meaningless in the same sentence, if you want a more informative, and fairly balanced view of the situation, see what the admin's new nominee to head the Joint Chiefs of Staff said to Senators during his confirmation hearings:
Bottom line -- No matter how much the "surge" appears to reduce armed attacks in the short run, our military is strained almost to the breaking point, and it can't be sustained.
No matter what they're able to accomplish militarily, it won't mean squat if the Iraqi's alleged government 's can't get their shit together between themselves.
That same alleged government just took off for a month long vacation, but not before the main Sunni Arab political bloc quit the Iraqi cabinet.
It may suprise you that I hope it all works out well for them, but I'm not holding my breath. If they aren't interested enough to keep working at it, I don't see any reason why we should continue spilling American blood just to make it easier for them to keep killing each other, not to mention more of our own troops.
Why don't you just say what you really feel? That Democrats hate America that's the gist of this thread.
Troll....troll...troll your boat.
Yeah deaths are down a bit, might have something to do with the 50,000 people a month fleeing the country.
Or perhaps it's due to the fact that much of the cleansing has already been done, the neighborhoods are becoming strictly Sunni or Shia so there's less reason to blow up your neighbor.
I hope Petraeus does come back with good news but that doesn't change the fact that we are going to have to start leaving soon. We can't sustain the current troop levels indefinitely.
In other news today the largest Sunni bloc withdrew from the government. Also, the parliament is now on a month long vacation and they still haven't passed the revenue sharing legislation.
Without a functional government we cannot succeed regardless of how many people we kill.
Troll....troll...troll your boat.
Yeah deaths are down a bit, might have something to do with the 50,000 people a month fleeing the country.
Or perhaps it's due to the fact that much of the cleansing has already been done, the neighborhoods are becoming strictly Sunni or Shia so there's less reason to blow up your neighbor.
I hope Petraeus does come back with good news but that doesn't change the fact that we are going to have to start leaving soon. We can't sustain the current troop levels indefinitely.
In other news today the largest Sunni bloc withdrew from the government. Also, the parliament is now on a month long vacation and they still haven't passed the revenue sharing legislation.
Without a functional government we cannot succeed regardless of how many people we kill.
ProfJohn
Lifer
How about the piece in the NY Times written by two Democrats, one of whom was a national security advisor for Clinton. They had nothing to gain by painting a rosy picture, but they did just that.
On top of that American support for the war is going UP! NY Times did a poll on support for the war and were so surprised at the results that they re-polled and got similar results.
The retreat and defeat crowd is losing ground on all fronts.
I expect the September report will be at least good enough to keep the troops at their current level into next year. And then we will see what happens.
And there are "conservatives" painting a bad picture. Clearly politics has something to do with how people view the war, and just as clearly that isn't the case for everyone. Stop trying to argue silly generalities, and stop adopting the ridiculous notion that only "the other guys" are anything less than forthright and honest.
Boy, those catchy bumper sticker philosophies never get old, do they? Unfortunately, it's a pretty crummy argument...which is why the only place it works is idiots talking to other idiots who already are on board. When it comes to real discussion, please leave that crap on FreeRepublic where it belongs.
Petraeus is a known tool without any credibility. My guess is he will brag about the "improved security condition" without mentioning the suffering of the Iraqi people (like that 92 percent of the children are so traumatized by the war that they have learning difficulties (Oxfam)) but focus on "Al Qaeda in Iraq" like his masters want him to. He will say - "great progress has been made in the fight against "Al Qaeda in Iraq" but much remains to be done so we cannot yet leave. We are doing exceptionally well fighting them and have almost killed all of them but at the same time they are growing stronger and we need to keep surging to victory over the next few decades..." He won't mention that "Al Qaeda in Iraq" is only a few thousand strong at best - tying up hundreds of thousands of troops/mercenaries. Of course he won't mention the immorality of making Iraq the proxy battlefield against Al Qaeda.
Zebo
Elite Member
Now wait we bribe one group of terrorists former sunni/baathests, you remember those guys - guys we said could never hold a govt post killed hundreds of thousands of Kurds and Shi'a etc, to kill AQ and you are calling this progress. Wait till the Shi'a find out their new found democratic majority and all the wealth and power that goes with that is being usurped and given to their former oppressor back door like by us. That little glimpse of progress will regress hard and this time you can really blame Iran for funneling. Like everything this admin does it's one step forward two steps back.
As far as Dems they go the way wind blows and will be pro-war if this progress is sustained. It's the hardcore antiwar people like American conservative writers, libertarians and liberals - all marginalized peoples anyway who will become even more marginalized should these polly anna predictions sustain.
As far as Dems they go the way wind blows and will be pro-war if this progress is sustained. It's the hardcore antiwar people like American conservative writers, libertarians and liberals - all marginalized peoples anyway who will become even more marginalized should these polly anna predictions sustain.
trenchfoot
Lifer
seeing as if petraeus is but a mouthpiece for bush and cheney, how can anyone take for fact what comes out of his mouth.
petraeus knows full well what happens to generals who cannot tow the line that bush and cheney espouse.
he may be trying his best to protect those troops under his command from being senselessy killed and maimed while also trying to placate his draft dodging bosses. not an easy trick by any means. if he has any common sense he'd also know he's committing his troops to battle for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with fighting the "war on terr'r" or any other pseudo patriotic slogan that rove and his propaganda machine can think of.
however, he knows full well that for him to remain the overall theatre commander so that he can try to shield his troops as best he can from bush's and cheney's madness he had to sell his soul to beelzebub cheney to do it.
let's face it; the bush/cheney team are proven liars beyond doubt. the are known to coerce military commanders into being pliable puppets. they have a proven track record for saying and doing anything to get their way no matter what the cost. how can anyone take seriously what petraeus has to say while he is forced to operate under such conditions.
petraeus knows full well what happens to generals who cannot tow the line that bush and cheney espouse.
he may be trying his best to protect those troops under his command from being senselessy killed and maimed while also trying to placate his draft dodging bosses. not an easy trick by any means. if he has any common sense he'd also know he's committing his troops to battle for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with fighting the "war on terr'r" or any other pseudo patriotic slogan that rove and his propaganda machine can think of.
however, he knows full well that for him to remain the overall theatre commander so that he can try to shield his troops as best he can from bush's and cheney's madness he had to sell his soul to beelzebub cheney to do it.
let's face it; the bush/cheney team are proven liars beyond doubt. the are known to coerce military commanders into being pliable puppets. they have a proven track record for saying and doing anything to get their way no matter what the cost. how can anyone take seriously what petraeus has to say while he is forced to operate under such conditions.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
I disagree. What would the Ds do if everything were coming up roses right now? They specialize in doom and gloom. They campaign negatively. They pit one group against another. Look at the last election. Do you think that "culture of corruption" and "Bush lied" are positive statements? No. They are not. But that line of thinking worked because every time you turned around another R was stepping all over himself.
I'm not saying that things are going great in Iraq, they're not. All I'm saying is that right now, what's bad for america is good for the Ds attempt to corral more power (re: more seats in congress).
DaveSimmons
Elite Member
How is that any different from the R's campaigning on fear and lies:
- gays will destroy your marriage!
- commie hippies will burn flags!
- athiests will keep kids from praying!
- terrorists will dirty bomb your home town!
- then Saddam Hussein will cause another 9/11 just like he did before!
Unless you vote R!!!
Both parties have used negativity for a long time now, neither one is innocent.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
The Rs use the negative to set up the positive. Bear with me here... this is another excursion into the world of political marketing with Whoozyer. I'm not taking sides. I know it's hard for some here to fathom... but yeah.
The Ds are a one trick pony. Someone is oppressed or someone else is being bad. That is pretty much their play book.
The Rs run the negative over here... then throw the positive over there...
Think 1994. It's the perfect example. On the one hand they went negative by attacking Clinton and corruption and lies and blow jobs... they went 'culture of corruption' before Harry Reid invented the phrase... then they released the contract with america... 'vote for us and we'll do this!' *BANG* Positive!
They led with the negative then pushed the positive. The Ds can't seem to figure out the second part of the strategy. They just stick to the negative side. Or they harp back to the way things used to be (as opposed to what they intend to do to get us back there)
There really isn't much point in denying this.
Ds... Negative, negative, negative...
Rs... Negative, negative, POSITIVE!
It may seem minor to some... but it's how elections are won. Negative campaigns work to an extent. But a negative undercurrent with a positive overtone wins. That's how the Rs do it.
If the Ds could bring a positive message, a proactive platform... they would own american politics. But they can't seem to get past the negative approach. And that is why the Rs will never be an irrelevant party despite what some people say. Whoever has a message of hope and a positive, proactive platform (even if it is complete bullshit) will win most of the time.
Whoozyerdaddy
Lifer
You're so smart. Correct me.
Well you might consider this.
But I find what you say to be funny because in my opinion what is positive is so much a matter of perspective. What you may call negative I may call good news. Bush, for example is a positive disaster.
Or we can take my remark about half a brain. I can see that as quite a complement whereas you may have focused more on the half that was missing.
Anything coming ouit of the Administration or US military command is going to be suspect and have an expected spin on it.
Any report being issued by any fact finding committee on Iraq will have a spin on it depending on who the report is created for and who controls the reportee selections.
There is no time to do anything but analyze numbers - no one is going to walk around with the grunts and police for a month or two to come up with accurate views.
This is all an effort to play political CYA in order for both sides to justify doing nothing for the next 12 months.
Any report being issued by any fact finding committee on Iraq will have a spin on it depending on who the report is created for and who controls the reportee selections.
There is no time to do anything but analyze numbers - no one is going to walk around with the grunts and police for a month or two to come up with accurate views.
This is all an effort to play political CYA in order for both sides to justify doing nothing for the next 12 months.
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