House GOP Lists $2.5 Trillion in Spending Cuts

[Exterous]

More bluster - and no cuts in Republican's pet pigs - defense, agricultural subs, etc.

That is a big, if predicatable miss. I will say something though - I noticed some big cuts that I didn't expect, mainly the federal travel budget and the vehicle budget

Cut in half funding for congressional printing and binding. $47 million annual savings

😱

The east coast is very similar to Europe in density.

Great - so that's what, 15-20% of the country?

 

[umbrella39]

No cuts to defense? Absolute fail.

As many have stated in this thread already... this.

Plus, no tax increases to fund 2 wars the past many years. Same fail tbh. The OP is a fool as usual. They should slash cushy gov. jobs and benefits first!

 

[umbrella39]

Nice start that they're at least making an effort. But at the end of the day, the Senate and President have to agree.

Making an effort? Please. Please! Funding wars from 2000-2008 with tax cuts and STILL not addressing that BIG problem isn't making an effort. It's the same shit, different decade.

 

[Brainonska511]

Combination of cutting spending (especially defense) and raising taxes on everyone. If we got into this together, we will get out of it together. Everyone should feel a little pain because of it.

 

[ichy]

Huge government funded road and airport projects obliterated the competitiveness of private passenger rail in the 30s through the 60s. Eventually this forced the creation of Amtrak lest all the railroads who were made to continue revenue draining passenger services go belly up.

Amtrak, while mismanaged internally and externally, has faced the basically impossible job of being competitive in the same environment. Declaring a system inefficient when it has literally been forced to be so isn't that damming of a complaint.

The problem with Amtrak is that they run too many long distance services which will never be profitable. Trains from NY to Chicago are retarded, that's what airplanes are for. What they SHOULD be doing is concentrating on areas like the Northeast Corridor. Hell, Acela already makes a profit and that's despite the godawful infrastructure it runs on.

Scattering money throughout the country for various rail projects is stupid, but real high speed rail between Boston and DC would make a lot of sense. Yes, it'll require gov't subsidies for the infrastructure but what are the alternatives? The FAA is looking at spending billions just to upgrade air traffic control in the New York area. Spend the money on upgrading the NE Corridor instead. Rail advocates need to stop making themselves look stupid though by advocating boondoggle projects like $50 billion high speed lines in California. Invest money where rail has proven itself to be a good choice, and let the airlines have the business in less densely populated areas.

 

[Brainonska511]

The problem with Amtrak is that they run too many long distance services which will never be profitable. Trains from NY to Chicago are retarded, that's what airplanes are for. What they SHOULD be doing is concentrating on areas like the Northeast Corridor. Hell, Acela already makes a profit and that's despite the godawful infrastructure it runs on.

Scattering money throughout the country for various rail projects is stupid, but real high speed rail between Boston and DC would make a lot of sense. Yes, it'll require gov't subsidies for the infrastructure but what are the alternatives? The FAA is looking at spending billions just to upgrade air traffic control in the New York area. Spend the money on upgrading the NE Corridor instead. Rail advocates need to stop making themselves look stupid though by advocating boondoggle projects like $50 billion high speed lines in California. Invest money where rail has proven itself to be a good choice, and let the airlines have the business in less densely populated areas.

I bet half the reason those long-distance lines still run is because Congressmen threaten to cut funding if they don't keep them alive.

The FAA spending is still needed regardless. Even if you got rid of the short-haul flights, you'd still have the busy air corridor in the country.

As for upgrading the NE corridor: to put true HSR, the proposal put forth by Amtrak has a price tag of ~$117 billion over 25 years. A large chunk being spent on building new track and acquiring new right of ways (since you need straighter tracks to keep up speeds). With a price tag like that, everyone balks. Who knew that capital improvement projects in densely populated areas would cost a lot of money?

 

[SammyJr]

No cuts to defense? Absolute fail.

But not surprising. The Republicans would like nothing better than for America to be the mercenary arm of Big Business.

 

[SammyJr]

The biggest change we need to make is re balancing power of capital. That includes having a infrastructure which supports any person that wants to work to be able to work and thus pay taxes instead of consume them. You can't do that with off shoring production of what we consume. This benefits the tipsy top and put the rest of us in debt. You can also strengthen SBA loan programs, reduce interest rates so bankers don't get so much spread on their virtually free money from the FED. etc. Taxes themselves are just a bandaid on a cut off leg and fix nothing.

This.

 

[SammyJr]

Indeed



Really? In 2009 the US spent 676 billion on Medicare/Medicaid and another 678 on Social Security 1354 billion. According to costofwar.com the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since 2001 have cost 1140 billion. Now if we break this down Medicare/Medicaide/Social Secuirty cost us, on average, 13x more per year than the wars do.

While I do agree that the wars have been a waste I think the run away spending on MMS is worse

Medicare, Medicaid, and SS provide services to millions of Americans. The wars are worse than burning the money in a fire pit. Value for the money is heavily tilted towards social services, despite the waste inherent in any large org.

 

[irishScott]

Guys, it's the Republicans. Obviously they're not going to cut anything related to their political base out of the starting gate. That said, I'm glad at least something significant is finally being attempted.

 

[Exterous]

Medicare, Medicaid, and SS provide services to millions of Americans. The wars are worse than burning the money in a fire pit. Value for the money is heavily tilted towards social services, despite the waste inherent in any large org.

It wasn't about 'value' it was about things that are causing a 'mess'. To say that the wars - which have cost a total of 1.1 trillion - is the main reason we are dealing with a 14 trillion dollar deficit, or multi trillion dollar deficit increases per year is absurd.

 

[Zebo]

It wasn't about 'value' it was about things that are causing a 'mess'. To say that the wars - which have cost a total of 1.1 trillion - is the main reason we are dealing with a 14 trillion dollar deficit, or multi trillion dollar deficit increases per year is absurd.

Federal retirements are 450 billion a year and about to get much worse much of that related to DOD/DOE. Basically the so called defense budget is completely understated it's more like 1 trillion a year when you factor in off budget war items, NASA projects, DOE, retirements, VA and so on. That said our social welfare medical system is a disaster too. You can't have this private/public cooperative and not get reamed you pay 3x as much as any county in EU.

We used to understand this. That's why military has it's own medical schools, it's own health care professionals on government pay, it's own hospitals. Now we don't even negotiate drug prices being the biggest buyer in the world.

 

[K1052]

The problem with Amtrak is that they run too many long distance services which will never be profitable. Trains from NY to Chicago are retarded, that's what airplanes are for. What they SHOULD be doing is concentrating on areas like the Northeast Corridor. Hell, Acela already makes a profit and that's despite the godawful infrastructure it runs on.

Scattering money throughout the country for various rail projects is stupid, but real high speed rail between Boston and DC would make a lot of sense. Yes, it'll require gov't subsidies for the infrastructure but what are the alternatives? The FAA is looking at spending billions just to upgrade air traffic control in the New York area. Spend the money on upgrading the NE Corridor instead. Rail advocates need to stop making themselves look stupid though by advocating boondoggle projects like $50 billion high speed lines in California. Invest money where rail has proven itself to be a good choice, and let the airlines have the business in less densely populated areas.

Political pressure has forced Amtrak to keep running the long haul routes even though they loose money. A good example of the no-win scenario they are in when it comes to becoming a profitable service.

The CA HSR line will be heavily used. Anything is better than flying out of LAX and into SFO or vice-versa as part of a regular travel pattern or taking to the roads. The CA HSR is also the only true HSR project that has a chance of coming to fruition. Once people see what these can do there will be a lot more interest in further systems in the areas that merit them (NEC and Chicago hub).

 

[K1052]

I bet half the reason those long-distance lines still run is because Congressmen threaten to cut funding if they don't keep them alive.

The FAA spending is still needed regardless. Even if you got rid of the short-haul flights, you'd still have the busy air corridor in the country.

As for upgrading the NE corridor: to put true HSR, the proposal put forth by Amtrak has a price tag of ~$117 billion over 25 years. A large chunk being spent on building new track and acquiring new right of ways (since you need straighter tracks to keep up speeds). With a price tag like that, everyone balks. Who knew that capital improvement projects in densely populated areas would cost a lot of money?

Pretty much spot on. Nobody likes the up front price tag, even though that infrastructure will serve for decades or even centuries.

 

[chowderhead]

Political pressure has forced Amtrak to keep running the long haul routes even though they loose money. A good example of the no-win scenario they are in when it comes to becoming a profitable service.

The CA HSR line will be heavily used. Anything is better than flying out of LAX and into SFO or vice-versa as part of a regular travel pattern or taking to the roads. The CA HSR is also the only true HSR project that has a chance of coming to fruition. Once people see what these can do there will be a lot more interest in further systems in the areas that merit them (NEC and Chicago hub).

really? Is Highway 5 that crowded? Are there not enough planes from the 3 airports in the Bay Area and those in Southern California? What about all those "HSR" stops in every central valley towns like Borden and Corcoran which will make the local NYC metro trains feel like the Concord?
4.3 billion dollars to build TRACKS only ... no stations and no trains for 54 miles.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-12-...ed-rail-authority-800-mile-system-trains-roll

79.6 million dollars per mile on the easiest (politically) and geographical (flat) region. Multiple that by going into places WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE and the price tag is through the moon. California is not the East Coast. People do not live on top of each other NOR have jobs that requires them to commute to and from Sacramento/SF/Bay Area to Southern California every day. Who is going to ride this thing if it ever gets built and how much do you really think the government will need to subsidize this thing if it ever gets built? They are thinking about shutting down CalTrain because not enough people are riding it and this goes only from the South Bay to SF.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/21/BA0M1HC6NN.DTL
HSR from Northern California to Southern California is a complete waste of money when California is in so much debt.

Oh let's also throw in some potential corruption by those in charge of this mess.
Calif. bullet train leaders under ethics probe
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/107342128.html

 

[zinfamous]

No cuts to defense? Absolute fail.

they are republicans. they think with their bibles. and Jesus likes guns.

:hmm:

 

[K1052]

really? Is Highway 5 that crowded? Are there not enough planes from the 3 airports in the Bay Area and those in Southern California? What about all those "HSR" stops in every central valley towns like Borden and Corcoran which will make the local NYC metro trains feel like the Concord?
4.3 billion dollars to build TRACKS only ... no stations and no trains for 54 miles.
http://articles.sfgate.com/2010-12-...ed-rail-authority-800-mile-system-trains-roll

79.6 million dollars per mile on the easiest (politically) and geographical (flat) region. Multiple that by going into places WHERE PEOPLE ACTUALLY LIVE and the price tag is through the moon. California is not the East Coast. People do not live on top of each other NOR have jobs that requires them to commute to and from Sacramento/SF/Bay Area to Southern California every day. Who is going to ride this thing if it ever gets built and how much do you really think the government will need to subsidize this thing if it ever gets built? They are thinking about shutting down CalTrain because not enough people are riding it and this goes only from the South Bay to SF.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/01/21/BA0M1HC6NN.DTL
HSR from Northern California to Southern California is a complete waste of money when California is in so much debt.

Oh let's also throw in some potential corruption by those in charge of this mess.
Calif. bullet train leaders under ethics probe
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/107342128.html

Total travel times for car and plane will be significantly longer than HSR. Do you seriously think that a sub 3 hour trip from LA to SF (downtown no less, so no 30 min BART ride or idling in a cab on the Bay Bridge) won't be of interest to anyone?

Caltrain is in trouble because "has no dedicated source of operating funds - no state or federal assistance, no sales or property tax revenue", not because nobody rides it.

There will be no stops in Borden or Corcoran. The last round of federal dollars given to CA for the project required them to be spent in the Central Valley and to be done first. That's why the first segment is being built between Borden and Corcoran.

 

[Darwin333]

Total travel times for car and plane will be significantly longer than HSR. Do you seriously think that a sub 3 hour trip from LA to SF (downtown no less, so no 30 min BART ride or idling in a cab on the Bay Bridge) won't be of interest to anyone?

Caltrain is in trouble because "has no dedicated source of operating funds - no state or federal assistance, no sales or property tax revenue", not because nobody rides it.

There will be no stops in Borden or Corcoran. The last round of federal dollars given to CA for the project required them to be spent in the Central Valley and to be done first. That's why the first segment is being built between Borden and Corcoran.

There is a huge difference between being "of interest to anyone" and being "of interest to enough to justify the investment". Plenty of people had interest in pets.com but it didn't work out to well from an investment standpoint.

 

[K1052]

There is a huge difference between being "of interest to anyone" and being "of interest to enough to justify the investment". Plenty of people had interest in pets.com but it didn't work out to well from an investment standpoint.

A service that trounces travel times offered by air and car won't be attractive to a state that will add 10M people over the next 20 years?

 

[BoberFett]

A service that trounces travel times offered by air and car won't be attractive to a state that will add 10M people over the next 20 years?

Train might beat air travel times right now, but wait until TSA starts groping everyone who wants to ride.

 

[Cerb]

Energy, infrastructure, and education - three keys to Americas prosperity and competitiveness for the remainder of the century are on the chopping block.

Shortsighted? Yeah a little bit.

On the chopping block?! They've been butchered, grilled, eaten, and shit out, already. They were already in Asian and South American water treatment plants by the time this century began.

Where are new gasoline refineries? Why have we only just gotten around to new nuke plants? Why are our consumer rails only long-distance, for the most part, anyway, and poorly managed? Why are our commercial rails in shambles? Noticed how smooth roads have been, lately? Where has our manufacturing base gone? Oh, and have you seen the results of public schools (which, for that matter, were never really intended to educate, even when they performed acceptably)?

 

[Jaskalas]

Remember too, that cuts mean more unemployment. This is a tough road to go down and one that needs to be thought out to some degree.

Don't misunderstand and think I'm condoning business as usual.

Remember too, that pushing people, who could not afford it, into HOMES was a good idea. It made them wealthy, part of the American dream, what could possibly go wrong?

Government stimulus is nothing more than the next housing bubble. Dems are asking for a freaking disaster if they keep the economy inflated for very long. You cannot avoid the pain of higher unemployment, you can only delay it and make it worse.

Something worse is exactly what the stimulus is providing. Short term is all fun and full of pretty numbers. If you consider a flat-lined economy good. Long term is the collapse of the economy. Nothing like this country has ever seen.

You will beg for a great depression, should we not cut and cut deep. Fake wealth has to end.

 

[irishScott]

Making an effort? Please. Please! Funding wars from 2000-2008 with tax cuts and STILL not addressing that BIG problem isn't making an effort. It's the same shit, different decade.

We'll see. Just because you'd like to scream REPUBLICANS BAD NOW TOO! doesn't mean this isn't an opportunity.

 

[Darwin333]

A service that trounces travel times offered by air and car won't be attractive to a state that will add 10M people over the next 20 years?

It has nothing to do with being attractive to people, like I said pets.com was attractive to people but in the long run it wasn't financially viable. Cali is about to hose folks with pensions so its not like they have tons of money to spend and then find out the ROI will not cover the cost.

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

:thumbsup: this x100

More than anything else it has been unsanctioned military spending that has got us into the mess we are in. We don't have a chance of ever balancing the budget as long as we continue throwing trillions away that we never had to begin with fighting unwinable and unjust wars.

Like others have said, cutting military funding during war time will not fly.
I personally think we need to reducing military spending by closing overseas bases in countries that are ultimately hostile or are in a part of the world where all we are doing is keeping someone else at bay. IE former Russian states. There's the "honorable" fighting for other peoples freedoms, but if someone wants freedom they need to fight for it themselves.
Military research/development, and spending at home I have no problem with because it actually helps the economy to be spending that money here.
Cut foreign aid to nothing. If a country wants/needs aid, we can give it to them, but we should then have access to the resources to recoup our costs. If it includes setting up infrastructure for things like oil, coal, natural gas, mining ect, fine, we can give aid and build these items and start recouping our costs. Once we hit a break even point or a set percentage above that, we hand it over to that government and let them run it and make their own money.
I have the same feelings about social services/welfare at home. If you get a check from the government, you go to work for them building roads, bridges, filing paperwork, building widgets, whatever. But we need to stop giving handouts and start getting results.