House GOP Lists $2.5 Trillion in Spending Cuts

[Zebo]

Republicans are desperate to avoid the one thing that'll make the biggest difference, which would be to raise taxes at the top.

Rich people weren't having trouble getting by pre-Reagan- they were still rich, just not getting richer as fast as they have been in the meanwhile. In 1980, the top 1&#37; received <9% of taxable income. In 2007, they received >23%, and the top .1% received ~12%, nearly as much as the bottom 50% combined.

I say let 'em cut- it's the only way the public will wake up, when they're totally screwed. Maybe a great place to cut would be from blue state transfers to red states, let 'em see how their ideas of govt actually play out.

Anybody think they'll cut ethanol subsidies, which is the driving force behind corn prices and indirectly other food prices?

Not even in your dreams...

How much you wanna increase taxes? What increases? Don't you think working people are taxed too much as is? How much do you think your taxes will generate? Enough to cover 2 trillion?

Only issue I have is capitals free ride. I don't even know or care how much it generates it's just more an issue of fairness/equity. No way a person actually working should pay more as percentage than someone investing. Otherwise taxes are too high as is. Go back and see.

 

[BoberFett]

How much you looking to increase taxes? Are you talking about the $70B a year "Bush tax cuts for the rich" or the entire $400B a year Bush tax cuts? Sounds like it is only the $70B, so lets give you that. That puts us at a 1.3ish trillion dollar deficit. Hell, lets double what they project the tax cuts for the rich would net, that puts us at 1.25 or so (rounding in your favor).

Now what?

Shhh, let the idiot Jhhnhnhnhn bask in his ignorance. "It's all them damn 'Publicans fault!"

 

[Jhhnn]

I wonder why the Treasury Department doesn't show a decrease in debt during the Clinton years?

They do show it leveling off, nearly creating a surplus-

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt.htm

Repubs had to turn that around- they luvs their US govt securities, for a lot of reasons, and taxcuts for America's wealthiest provide a good reason for creating more.

 

[Zebo]

More- back to pre-Reagan levels of federal taxation relative to &#37; ranking in terms of income. Maybe leave the bottom 40% as is.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Yeh, I know- the rich won't be getting richer at their current incredible rate. I'll have tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, I'm tellin' ya.

Anybody not willing to pay big taxes on big money, millions per year, is a truly greedy bastard and needs to be seen as such.

Rich get richer because of power and control of capital not what they are taxed. You could tax me 99% and give me 1% FED loans like many corps/banks get while I buy 3% GUARANTEED treasuries I will be richer on that 2% spread.

The biggest change we need to make is re balancing power of capital. That includes having a infrastructure which supports any person that wants to work to be able to work and thus pay taxes instead of consume them. You can't do that with off shoring production of what we consume. This benefits the tipsy top and put the rest of us in debt. You can also strengthen SBA loan programs, reduce interest rates so bankers don't get so much spread on their virtually free money from the FED. etc. Taxes themselves are just a bandaid on a cut off leg and fix nothing.

 

[Jhhnn]

Shhh, let the idiot Jhhnhnhnhn bask in his ignorance. "It's all them damn 'Publicans fault!"

Remarkable how you have to say something even when you have nothing but personal attack. Go for Denial! It's all you've got, apparently.

 

[Darwin333]

More- back to pre-Reagan levels of federal taxation relative to % ranking in terms of income. Maybe leave the bottom 40% as is.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Yeh, I know- the rich won't be getting richer at their current incredible rate. I'll have tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, I'm tellin' ya.

Anybody not willing to pay big taxes on big money, millions per year, is a truly greedy bastard and needs to be seen as such.

Per your link you could effectively double the taxes on the rich and you get down to a trillion dollar deficit.

What else ya got?

 

[sportage]

No defense cuts?
Lets face it... "they" (the people in power regardless of party) have decided for YOU that war will now and forever be a continuing part of American life.
You will see America involved in war for the rest of your life.
You kids will see America involved in war for the rest of their life.
Their kids will see America involved in war for the rest of their life.
This will never end... Ever!

 

[SparkyJJO]

More- back to pre-Reagan levels of federal taxation relative to &#37; ranking in terms of income. Maybe leave the bottom 40% as is.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html

Yeh, I know- the rich won't be getting richer at their current incredible rate. I'll have tears in my eyes as big as horseturds, I'm tellin' ya.

Anybody not willing to pay big taxes on big money, millions per year, is a truly greedy bastard and needs to be seen as such.

Somebody works harder and earns more money than the average Joe, and then people like you say he's being greedy because he wants to keep the money he earned and use it how he sees fit, instead of giving it to the government to waste. Or how dare somebody's kid inherit the wealth of his parents or grandparents! The government deserves it, not the family!

People like you amaze me. But then, not really, as it just goes to show how envious you really are, and your communist mindset.


Regarding the cuts... its a start. That's all. But at least it is a start.

And then those in favor of higher taxes - you go ahead and pay more in taxes if you so desire. I'm sorry but I'm not in favor of such, my budget is tight enough already.

I heard an idea on the radio the other day: Instead of having automatic tax witholdings from your paycheck, get ALL your paycheck, every time. Then, at the end of the year (or split it up by halves, or quarterly) write a check to the federal government for what you owe. Maybe, with everyone writing all those checks, and actually being more aware of the amount they are getting taxed, the people would be much harder on the nutjobs in Washington and keeping the reins tight on tax rates and the budget. Force some more accountability into the system.

 

[IBMer]

We don't need new taxes we need more tax payers. Well Capital needs same taxes as working people instead of $1 CEO's who then take their real money out at 15&#37; with no employment taxes but otherwise no new taxes. Solves two problems. Gets people off govt payroll and they become payers. This can only be done if we produce what we consume.

Yah those 1 dollar CEOs need to be taxed the same as the rest of us.

 

[Darwin333]

Rich get richer because of power and control of capital not what they are taxed. You could tax me 99% and give me 1% FED loans like many corps/banks get while I buy 3% GUARANTEED treasuries I will be richer on that 2% spread.

Exactly. Most people fail to realize that the truly wealthy aren't wealthy because of their taxable income. Lower, middle, and upper class work for their money. The wealthy have their money work for them.

You would damn near have to tax the top 1% at 100% to close the current deficit.

 

[IBMer]

Exactly. Most people fail to realize that the truly wealthy aren't wealthy because of their taxable income. Lower, middle, and upper class work for their money. The wealthy have their money work for them.

You would damn near have to tax the top 1&#37; at 100% to close the current deficit.

Which is why Captital gains after a certain cut off should be taxed as INCOME.

 

[Zebo]

Exactly. Most people fail to realize that the truly wealthy aren't wealthy because of their taxable income. Lower, middle, and upper class work for their money. The wealthy have their money work for them.

You would damn near have to tax the top 1% at 100% to close the current deficit.

That's why I ask these guys how much you wanna tax rich and what difference will it make?

I've heard applying regular income rates and employment taxes to capital would raise 500 billion not nearly enough to close the 1.73 trillion dollar federal deficit and around same for states. Real issues like mass UE will not be fixed and more would consume that 500 Billion in short order anyway.

 

[Darwin333]

Which is why Captital gains after a certain cut off should be taxed as INCOME.

Great!

Still a trillion dollar deficit so again, now what?

 

[Zebo]

Yah those 1 dollar CEOs need to be taxed the same as the rest of us.

All business owners I know do similar, tax code is set up to expense most of your income, and give you incentive to take out later as gains. Even a small business owner can do this. Say you buy a franchise like a Jiffy Lube you then pay yourself a paltry salary just enough to eat and take profits and buy another and another and another and in 5 years sell them all. All that income was deferred into capital gains now taxed at 15&#37; flat. CEO's do the same thing but with options. There has been a trend since the 80s for CEOs to pay themselves less and less and take out real money as capital gains. For example Bill Gates never made more than $400,000 and towards the end paid himself $1 - $1 is getting more common to avoid income tax.

Oh and the best scam is the one Hedge fund managers got from their Democratic friends like Shumer. There is actually a loop hole in the law so they can pay themselves salary and are taxed as gains. <google it it's crazy> There are some guys who manage peoples money pulling down 1 billion a year and paying 15% after expenses of course like G6's with pilot and Maybach limos etc.

I don't know about you but I paid more than 15% making less than $60,000 after college. More like 35% if you add up all taxes from SS to property to sales to federal to state and so on. For me it's about equity not zapping the rich. Most of whom earned it.

 

[Jhhnn]

What Righties fail to comprehend, and try desperately to ignore, to obfuscate, is that spending cuts mean sacrifice from average Americans, one way or another- in jobs or services or in opportunity.

Where's the Republican plan for sacrifice from those who can most afford it?

There isn't one, which should be a clue for anybody with half a brain to figure out their true intentions. Low personal taxes on enormous incomes promote offshoring and hoarding of liquidity. High personal income taxes for tippy-top earners promote reinvestment in existing companies, creating jobs. They hate paying taxes so bad that they'll hire people to do it.

Do we need to cut spending too? Obviously, but not in the bullshit ways that Repubs propose. The fact that the Military is totally sacrosanct tells us that it's bullshit. Will more F35's and F22's make a difference in Iraq or Afghanistan? How about a new aircraft carrier? How about 14 military bases in Okinawa alone? How about the enormous expense of paying private security contractors in Iraq?

Our current malaise is the direct result of the implementation of republican class warfare ideology for 30 years. WTF did you expect? Trickle down goodness? There isn't any- never was.

 

[ShreddedWheat]

Please cut education until jobs come back from overseas or outsourcing is stopped. Bachelor degrees are not needed to flip burgers in this economy!

 

[Engineer]

I heard an idea on the radio the other day: Instead of having automatic tax witholdings from your paycheck, get ALL your paycheck, every time. Then, at the end of the year (or split it up by halves, or quarterly) write a check to the federal government for what you owe. Maybe, with everyone writing all those checks, and actually being more aware of the amount they are getting taxed, the people would be much harder on the nutjobs in Washington and keeping the reins tight on tax rates and the budget. Force some more accountability into the system.

AFAIK, if you owe more than a certain amount ($1,000 maybe?) for two consecutive years, you will be forced to pay quarterly taxes through the IRS system. I was warned and know others who have been warned also.

By the way, the CEO's getting paid $1 salary and then collecting on stock options to get the 15&#37; rate is highway robbery for the middle class, period. When I have to pay more for my labor than someone who works the system with billions of dollars.....shakes head.

 

[Zebo]

AFAIK, if you owe more than a certain amount ($1,000 maybe?) for two consecutive years, you will be forced to pay quarterly taxes through the IRS system. I was warned and know others who have been warned also.

By the way, the CEO's getting paid $1 salary and then collecting on stock options to get the 15&#37; rate is highway robbery for the middle class, period. When I have to pay more for my labor than someone who works the system with billions of dollars.....shakes head.

That's one reason I stopped working soon as I had seed money. Plus no control over when and how much I pay. My personality is not suited to working for someone especially corporate BS if you know what I mean. And I hate suits. Still have like 10 in the closet collecting dust. They were not tax deductible either. They make it real hard on you to do your own thing with taxes democrats like so much.

 

[IBMer]

It should all be considered income. If your gaining money you didn't have, that's income. Then you can start talking about fairer tax rates or being "taxed" to death.

It surprises me that this shit goes on but people still cling to things like "Job killing taxes". What taxes?

 

[Mani]

The national debt increased every year under Clinton. Despite running surpluses (and the surpluses could also be vewed as an accounting trick if you really want to nit-pick), the debt never went down.

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

09/30/1999 5,656,270,901,615.43
09/30/1998 5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 4,692,749,910,013.32
09/30/1993 4,411,488,883,139.38
09/30/1992 4,064,620,655,521.66

Lets also not forget he had a Republican congress that drastically curtailed his spending plans and forced a lot of reform in regards to the deficit.

And as for being fiscally responsible, I don't think either side can lay claim to that title considering the last 40 years or so.

He did in fact pay down the debt, but that is subject to what definition of debt you subscribe to. Good article that lays out the two points of view:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...linton-says-his-administration-paid-down-deb/

 

[Mani]

I wonder why the Treasury Department doesn't show a decrease in debt during the Clinton years?

Because it only references gross, not the more commonly cited public debt.

 

[ayabe]

Energy, infrastructure, and education - three keys to Americas prosperity and competitiveness for the remainder of the century are on the chopping block.

Shortsighted? Yeah a little bit.

 

[Double Trouble]

With the exception of a couple of posters (Jhhnn etc), this thread has actually had some surprisingly good discourse, without descending into the usual partisan drivel.

Things like top income tax rates and taxes on capital gains and such get (and deserve) attention because they have to do with perceived fairness and such, but in the grand scheme of the deficit, they are meaningless gnats. If we're going to have a real conversation about debt and deficit reduction, we have to talk about the large elephants in the room: entitlements and defense spending.

I applaud the republicans for at least coming up with a plan to cut spending. Sure, we might not like all of it, but you have to come up with a plan. I notice how they conveniently left out cuts to spending areas their constituents like, and that's not going to fly, but now the ball is in the democrats court. If they come up with a plan I'm sure it will involve cuts to the republican sacred cows and taxing the hell out of everyone. Then the two plans can be worked into one more realistic plan.

It's just not going to happen though as long as we can continue to live on borrowed money and not face the pain. We're like an individual living on a credit card with no way to pay more than the minimum: as long as you're under the limit, you can continue to irresponsibly spend... but at some point you're going to get to that limit and be screwed.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

What Righties fail to comprehend, and try desperately to ignore, to obfuscate, is that spending cuts mean sacrifice from average Americans, one way or another- in jobs or services or in opportunity.

And tax increases don't?

Where's the Republican plan for sacrifice from those who can most afford it?

Where's the Democrat plan? Would that be the same plan they signed off on to extend Bush tax cuts to EVERYONE? Would that be the master plan? Oh wait, I forgot -- Republicans made them do it. Gotcha.

There isn't one, which should be a clue for anybody with half a brain to figure out their true intentions.

Low personal taxes on enormous incomes promote offshoring and hoarding of liquidity. High personal income taxes for tippy-top earners promote reinvestment in existing companies, creating jobs. They hate paying taxes so bad that they'll hire people to do it.

As has been pointed out to you -- numerous times -- raising taxes on the super rich won't make a hill of beans difference. Darwin showed those numbers earlier and I believe it was Zebo who pointed out that most of the super rich make their income from capital gains, which is only taxed at 15&#37; or so. Cut the bullshit. Capital gains tax reform is what is needed.

Do we need to cut spending too? Obviously, but not in the bullshit ways that Repubs propose. The fact that the Military is totally sacrosanct tells us that it's bullshit. Will more F35's and F22's make a difference in Iraq or Afghanistan? How about a new aircraft carrier? How about 14 military bases in Okinawa alone? How about the enormous expense of paying private security contractors in Iraq?

Who here said we didn't need to cut military? I specifically mentioned bases (I think it was this thread, but it might have been another). We need to get out of Afghanistan and Iraq, close bases, and drastically cut the military budget. Like it or not, we're going to have to cut Social Security and Medicare.

Our current malaise is the direct result of the implementation of republican class warfare ideology for 30 years. WTF did you expect? Trickle down goodness? There isn't any- never was.

Republican class warfare ideology? Excuse me? The Democrats are the ones trying to pit everyone against the "rich." They're the ones who fan the flames of class warfare and envy and by screaming "raise income taxes on the rich" when they know damn well that 1) someone making $250K per year is not rich and 2) raising income taxes on the rich will have no effect on the wealth accumulation (which you guys bitch about constantly) on the super rich. The rich will continue to make money on capital gains, pay their 15%, and laugh. All the Democrats can do is throw their little hissy fits, stomp up and down, and scream "Republicans made us do it!"

No. It isn't working. Over the last 30+ years, Democrats have had AMPLE opportunity. The "Republicans made us do it" schtick is getting old and even if we assume it is true for a moment, are those the kind of people you want representing you? The kind that fold at the slightest bit of pressure?

The fact is that the Democrats and Republicans put on a show for us in the media and then have a beer and laugh at us behind closed doors. Both have failed this country miserably, and yet, partisan hacks like you continue to spout the same old, tired speech. Clinging to partisan ideology and party warfare is precisely why we are in the situation we're in.

 

[Exterous]

No cuts to defense? Absolute fail.

Indeed

More than anything else it has been unsanctioned military spending that has got us into the mess we are in. We don't have a chance of ever balancing the budget as long as we continue throwing trillions away that we never had to begin with fighting unwinable and unjust wars.

Really? In 2009 the US spent 676 billion on Medicare/Medicaid and another 678 on Social Security 1354 billion. According to costofwar.com the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan combined since 2001 have cost 1140 billion. Now if we break this down Medicare/Medicaide/Social Secuirty cost us, on average, 13x more per year than the wars do.

While I do agree that the wars have been a waste I think the run away spending on MMS is worse