House Democrats are turning on themselves ...

[ch33zw1z]

Hahahahahaha. You do understand that the Dems overwhelmingly represent the richest congressional districts? So the rich people are giving money and support to the GOP but then vote Dem? The Dems are not the party of the middle class.

Oh, who got all those big beautiful tax cuts?

 

[ivwshane]

Isn't voting for parties because you don't want to consider what your candidate actually stands for a perfect example of being a fucking tool, incapable of thinking for yourself?

You missed the point. Parties have been apart of our democracy from the beginning. In a perfect world the electorate would be highly educated on who they are voting for, unfortunately that's never been the case, hence the reason parties exist, it's a shortcut.

 

[ivwshane]

I think FORCING them to vote in lockstep is the problem. If they willingly do so because they believe it's the right way to vote, or if their constituents want them to vote that way then it's fine. But if they are forced to because otherwise the political power of their party will work to subvert the will of those who elected them and get them tossed out of office, then it's morally wrong and counter to what democracy is supposedly all about.

Or maybe I'm just wonderfully naive. I've always admitted I'm a pretty simple man. Maybe it's better they are forced to vote as a party so they can at least accomplish something? Sort of working a flawed system to their advantage, because the opposition is surely voting as a block?

Did I just answer my own question? Jesus, my brain hurts. I worry too much about what I'd like to see happen in a perfect world. Time to go fishing.

Bingo!

I'd quote the relevant passage but for some reason I'm unable to copy the text. Basically some democrats are allowing the Republicans to sabotage bills by going along with republican procedural tactics. It's the same shit they did with the ACA and did it garner any republican votes? No. In normal times with a normal opposition party, compromise would be good and necessary, we don't live in normal times.

 

[soundforbjt]

Isn't voting for parties because you don't want to consider what your candidate actually stands for a perfect example of being a fucking tool, incapable of thinking for yourself?

Have you met the average voter?

 

[Bitek]

This is exactly why I hate political parties, and especially the GOP. I am an independent but have never voted for a republican on the federal level because in my entire voting life a vote for a republican on the national level was a vote for the GOP leader. And for the record, there have been very few moderate Rs in congress since 2010, they were primaried out just like AOC is saying needs to happen here.

The fact that democrats don't vote in lock step is a major selling point for me. Why even vote for specific people if they all fall in line on every vote?

Democrats will bemoan republicans putting party in front of country in every thread about Trump, then turn around a bitch about their guys not doing the same.

I was watching PBS, I think it was after the state of the union, and one of the commentators made a very good point that I wish democrats would figure out. Mid-term cross party wins are a rebuke of the current president, not affirmation of the winning party's policies. He then went on to describe how both sides have misread these signs in the past and lost the following presidential election because people didn't actually like their ideas as much as they thought they did, the people just wanted a check on the president.

When I see stories like the one in the OP it just makes me fearful that democrats are going to once again snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

I think it's important to distinguish a procedural vote versus crafting actual legislation.

What this procedure does (as best as I can understand arcane legislative processes) is allow a late and final chance for the minority to insert amendments to the bill just before voting.

The reason this is a danger to the majority is it allows the minority a last second Hail Mary to insert cleverly crafted poison pill amendments or other verbage gutting the bill. A last line ".... NOT! LOLOLOL"

This is after the committee process, after all the negotiation, compromise, deal making and vote whipping.

In this case, an amendment regarding reporting illegal immigrants to ice was inserted into a gun control bill by the defection of 26 Ds. Something unrelated to the original bill.

The 26 defectors, scared of some negative vote scoring, then allowed in a troll amendment that forced THE 200+ OTHER Ds OF THE CAUCUS to vote FOR the troll, else vote AGAINST their signature gun control bill.

Because of the fear of a few members on a bullshit procedure vote, they ratfucked the rest of the caucus to take a tough vote for ice or against gun control.

No wonder ppl are pissed and making threats.

Pelosi and AOC are saying "you may fear the activist group vote scorers, but you better fear the rest of us more. You can beat them, but we will guarantee your road to ruin."

 

[DarthKyrie]

Have you met the average voter?

75 Million United States citizens have the IQ of a turnip. Remember this simple fact and life becomes much easier.

 

[jmagg]

75 Million United States citizens have the IQ of a turnip. Remember this simple fact and life becomes much easier.

And with this attitude, another four for trump. Moderate Democrats are the majority.

 

[Mai72]

There is zero reason why dems should vote with GOP who are basically servants of rich donors.

So I support AOC and want her to keep going to unify the democrats.

It's good to see Pelosi recognize the new generation is here and you will not win if you alienate them. Baby Boomers are dying. Millenials and Gen X'ers and their viewpoints are the future.

lol, there are 75.4m (est.) baby boomers today. You are going to have to wait a very long time my friend. I'm a moderate Dem and I don't like Cortez. I think she's way out there, but who knows. Maybe she'll be able to unify people. I doubt it though.

 

[dud]

75 Million United States citizens have the IQ of a turnip. Remember this simple fact and life becomes much easier.

And I thought that I was cynical ...

 

[blankslate]

Moderate Democrats are the majority.

And they don't realize that they along with independents and even moderate Republicans are more liberal than they think...
They have been sold a bill of good that to be moderate is to be reasonable when if polled on individual policies they'd find that they lean more left than they think....

Here is a link that collates recent polls on those policies ranging from Taxation (who should pay more etc.), Inequality, Money in Politics, Health Care, Education etc....

https://prospect.org/article/most-americans-are-liberal-even-if-they-don’t-know-it

The figures cited below come from surveys conducted by Gallup, Pew, and other reputable polling organizations on the key issues facing the nation. These are the most recent national polls on each topic. Most of them are from the past year, although a few go back further. Each poll is hyperlinked so readers can look at the original sources.

A few examples and as you can see a clickable link for each stated assertion

The Economy

• 82 percent of Americans think wealthy people have too much power and influence in Washington.
• 69 percent think large businesses have too much power and influence in Washington.
• 59 percent—and 72 percent of likely voters—think Wall Street has too much power and influence in Washington.

Inequality

• 82 percent of Americans think economic inequality is a “very big” (48 percent) or “moderately big” (34 percent) problem. Even 69 percent of Republicans share this view.
• 66 percent of Americans think money and wealth should be distributed more evenly.

*e2a*

I would suggest that the things these polls indicate a reason why the Dems did well in the House... because Trump while he promised that his policies would help the middle class and workers they didn't and people were looking for candidates who would.


______________

 

[Mai72]

AOC isn't about herself, she's about:
- medicare for all
- a living minimum wage
- a guarantee of a job

That is easy to support.. healthy people who are working, and able to feed and house their family are happy people. Unlike the raging Trumpanzees.

And really do look at the flip side. The GOP are blindly following Trump like a religious cult.

A guarantee? No one owes you shit. And, right there is the issue. Waiting on the government to fix your problems.

A Living Wage?
A Guaranteed Job?
Medicare for All?

1) Stop Having Babies. 2) Get Some Real Skills 3) Put Down the Netflix, TV and Video Games 4) Get Healthy 5) Work, and Work Some More. 6) Self Education.

But but but... I want to have a comfy life. I don't want to work that hard. And, my favorite streamer comes on at 6pm. How can I work 2 jobs then? And.. Life is to be enjoyed! I want it all. Free food, free housing, medicare, free college, a new car, money in the bank. Why is society against me! Why!!!!

 

[Indus]

A guarantee? No one owes you shit. And, right there is the issue. Waiting on the government to fix your problems.

A Living Wage?
A Guaranteed Job?
Medicare for All?

1) Stop Having Babies. 2) Get Some Real Skills 3) Put Down the Netflix, TV and Video Games 4) Get Healthy 5) Work, and Work Some More. 6) Self Education.

But but but... I want to have a comfy life. I don't want to work that hard. And, my favorite streamer comes on at 6pm. How can I work 2 jobs then? And.. Life is to be enjoyed! I want it all. Free food, free housing, medicare, free college, a new car, money in the bank. Why is society against me! Why!!!!

Way to blame the hard workers.

Get some real skills.. you know the kind that cost $400k+ in student loan debts.

Get healthy.. you know the kind that costs insane amount in bills thanks to big pharma.

Work.. you know the kind where working 2 jobs isn't enough.

Really? *roll eyes*

 

[DarthKyrie]

And with this attitude, another four for trump. Moderate Democrats are the majority.

And I thought that I was cynical ...

I can't help that I have become completely convinced of this fact based upon the fact that the majority of voters couldn't pass a civics exam on how elections work. I don't even want to mention that even less would be able to pass the citizenship test.

Here's an easy question that the majority of people get wrong. What are the 3 Co-Equal Branches of Government of the United States? Another is, How many Senators are there in total?

If people can't get these 2 simple questions correct they shouldn't be able to vote.

 

[Jhhnn]

Way to blame the hard workers.

Get some real skills.. you know the kind that cost $400k+ in student loan debts.

Get healthy.. you know the kind that costs insane amount in bills thanks to big pharma.

Work.. you know the kind where working 2 jobs isn't enough.

Really? *roll eyes*

He's down with the holier than thou routine.

 

[Jhhnn]

I think it's important to distinguish a procedural vote versus crafting actual legislation.

What this procedure does (as best as I can understand arcane legislative processes) is allow a late and final chance for the minority to insert amendments to the bill just before voting.

The reason this is a danger to the majority is it allows the minority a last second Hail Mary to insert cleverly crafted poison pill amendments or other verbage gutting the bill. A last line ".... NOT! LOLOLOL"

This is after the committee process, after all the negotiation, compromise, deal making and vote whipping.

In this case, an amendment regarding reporting illegal immigrants to ice was inserted into a gun control bill by the defection of 26 Ds. Something unrelated to the original bill.

The 26 defectors, scared of some negative vote scoring, then allowed in a troll amendment that forced THE 200+ OTHER Ds OF THE CAUCUS to vote FOR the troll, else vote AGAINST their signature gun control bill.

Because of the fear of a few members on a bullshit procedure vote, they ratfucked the rest of the caucus to take a tough vote for ice or against gun control.

No wonder ppl are pissed and making threats.

Pelosi and AOC are saying "you may fear the activist group vote scorers, but you better fear the rest of us more. You can beat them, but we will guarantee your road to ruin."

I think the one consolation is that the ICE proviso is as meaningful as teats on a boar. It involves a highly unlikely fantasy scenario.

 

[jackstar7]

You missed the point. Parties have been apart of our democracy from the beginning. In a perfect world the electorate would be highly educated on who they are voting for, unfortunately that's never been the case, hence the reason parties exist, it's a shortcut.

One thing is that it's a shortcut for a reason. When politics is done right it is boring and doesn't require the constant attention of an educated public because who has the time for that shit? People need to be able to focus on their jobs and their families and all that shit. Play video games, see movies, read books. Keep art and culture moving forward and society as a whole humming along.

When government starts to break down and be a disservice to the citizens... it's like the outsiders in someone's subconscious in Inception: people mess with things and suddenly all eyes are on them and an attack is imminent/likely the more they continue to make those messes.

For all of Obama's faults, and there are certainly a few, his leadership and stability kept most things boring. The thing that gathered most attention was the GOP announcing they were not going to govern in good faith and bipartisanship and now we see where that led.

I'm rambling, but I would like to go back to a place where I can give my Rep/Senators my attention on a smaller scale, and even give more attention to local issues. The state of the nation as a whole is such a shitshow I'm sure MANY communities are being pillaged even worse by dickheads abusing their localities, because the focus remains on Dumbnuts in Chief and his cabal of fuckheads.

 

[Mai72]

He's down with the holier than thou routine.

Stop watching Netflix and blaming others. That's what I'm about. Stop making excuses. Let me know when the government steps in and makes your life better. That should be a laugh.

 

[jackstar7]

Stop watching Netflix and blaming others. That's what I'm about. Stop making excuses. Let me know when the government steps in and makes your life better. That should be a laugh.

Well, the ACA meant my kids weren't in serious jeopardy when I got laid off a couple years back... but hey, privilege must feel great.

 

[Mai72]

Way to blame the hard workers.

Get some real skills.. you know the kind that cost $400k+ in student loan debts.

Get healthy.. you know the kind that costs insane amount in bills thanks to big pharma.

Work.. you know the kind where working 2 jobs isn't enough.

Really? *roll eyes*

You're waiting on the government fix social issues. It can't. The only one whose going to do that is you. You'll be waiting forever. It ain't going to happen. Not in our lifetime.

Read. Stay in shape. Stop watching Netflix. That's all that I have for you. If you think Cortez is going to sprinkle fairy dust in the air and all will be fine, you've lost your mind.

 

[jackstar7]

You're waiting on the government fix social issues. It can't. The only one whose going to do that is you. You'll be waiting forever. It ain't going to happen. Not in our lifetime.

Read. Stay on n shape. Stop watching Netflix.

You're leaving out live in perpetual fear and die sooner due to the long-term effects of anxiety... but you do you.

 

[ecogen]

You're waiting on the government fix social issues. It can't. The only one whose going to do that is you. You'll be waiting forever. It ain't going to happen. Not in our lifetime.

Read. Stay in shape. Stop watching Netflix. That's all that I have for you. If you think Cortez is going to sprinkle fairy dust in the air and all will be fine, you've lost your mind.

Human garbage.

 

[brycejones]

You're waiting on the government fix social issues. It can't. The only one whose going to do that is you. You'll be waiting forever. It ain't going to happen. Not in our lifetime.

Read. Stay in shape. Stop watching Netflix. That's all that I have for you. If you think Cortez is going to sprinkle fairy dust in the air and all will be fine, you've lost your mind.

You sound really lazy. It might be hard so we should do nothing.

Get off your ass and try to make the world a better place.

 

[Jhhnn]

Stop watching Netflix and blaming others. That's what I'm about. Stop making excuses. Let me know when the government steps in and makes your life better. That should be a laugh.

The government makes my life better with every pension & SS check deposited to my account. It makes my life & the lives of us all better in ways sensed only vaguely by libertopian twits like yourself.

 

[Indus]

You're waiting on the government fix social issues. It can't. The only one whose going to do that is you. You'll be waiting forever. It ain't going to happen. Not in our lifetime.

Read. Stay in shape. Stop watching Netflix. That's all that I have for you. If you think Cortez is going to sprinkle fairy dust in the air and all will be fine, you've lost your mind.

And that's why teachers are striking..

The government is not helping them get a living wage. They have to strike for it!

 

[Zorba]

Can you explain how Democrats voting in lockstep for a procedural vote hampers the purpose of electing individuals to Congress?

Is that a serious question? Lockstep voting means they are all voting in the way their leadership wants them to vote, regardless of their own beliefs or the values of their district.

Its also a better wining strategy when people like Kendra Horn in Oklahoma's 5th can claim that she will be an independent voter/thinker and get elected, than to vote lockstep and not get elected. If you want democrats from red states you have to accept that they will be moderates and all bitching about them being moderates will get you is a republican in the next election.