House cuts released

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Dec 10, 2005
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So, they didn't think he would get it passed. I'm pretty sure that they still planned for many different contingencies.
The rest of the article reads like they are simply switching to plan B.
It's just a typical "Dems in Disarray" Politico hit piece. There is really nothing to parry because the cards are already on the table: pass a clean debt ceiling as was done for tons of prior administrations, and come to the table separately for budget negotiations.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,359
4,640
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I don't see a plan. They are clearly still balancing Biden's re-election efforts with a debt-ceiling standoff and have no definite plan. If they didn't have to worry about Biden running when he probably shouldn't, different story. Biden just doesn't have the presence to parry things. He is coddled with kids gloves away from the media.
I don't see what you do. There is no need for any other plan. We all know that Republicans are just virtue signaling, which they have to do since they have no real virtue, and will drop their pretend virtue and vote for a clean bill before we default, just like they do every time. They are the party of big business and nothing is worse for business than blowing up the economy. The Democrats merely have to wait them out. Just like every other time they try to hold the economy hostage to publicize their temper tantrums.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,770
46,582
136
It's just a typical "Dems in Disarray" Politico hit piece. There is really nothing to parry because the cards are already on the table: pass a clean debt ceiling as was done for tons of prior administrations, and come to the table separately for budget negotiations.

Yeah I didn't really think they'd pass anything either but McCarthy yet again promised everybody in his caucus the moon. Doesn't change the basic calculus here at all since the Senate and Biden were never going to agree to even a fraction of what's in the House bill.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
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I just hope the Dems don't blink. They are not dealing with decent, humane people - the GQP caucus are a bunch of sick sociopaths.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,802
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There's nothing shocking about that piece. It's always been an all or nothing "give us a clean raise". Which is why it's always been a choice of default or mint the coin, since the current House will never give a clean debt ceiling raise.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,770
46,582
136
I just hope the Dems don't blink. They are not dealing with decent, humane people - the GQP caucus are a bunch of sick sociopaths.

Biden thinks it was a huge mistake for Obama to have negotiated with the GOP over the debt ceiling. This escapade is not going to do anything but strengthen that belief.
 
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Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
35,838
10,146
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Motivating those parties is great, but doesn't solve the immediate problem of the whole debt ceiling and June deadline.
Having a fit President would also mean having someone that would stand up and oppose the Republicans. Directly oppose, as in ignore the debt ceiling. Giving the order to do so. They would also give a public address and explain how it is unconstitutional and that they would be following the letter of the most recent law passed by Congress. The budget they squeaked through last year. They would vow that so long as they were President America would pay its debts.

Part of playing the propaganda game is having someone with the mental acuity, the charm and the charisma to get it done.
Sure, best care scenario today is that Biden might sign the orders, he might do the right thing. But he will never win the public to his side the way Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama could.
If we must campaign, we will be doing so without a leader - and THAT is damaging.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,144
12,344
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It's just a typical "Dems in Disarray" Politico hit piece. There is really nothing to parry because the cards are already on the table: pass a clean debt ceiling as was done for tons of prior administrations, and come to the table separately for budget negotiations.
Yea, that damn liberal press.
 
Dec 10, 2005
28,865
14,096
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Having a fit President would also mean having someone that would stand up and oppose the Republicans. Directly oppose, as in ignore the debt ceiling. Giving the order to do so. They would also give a public address and explain how it is unconstitutional and that they would be following the letter of the most recent law passed by Congress. The budget they squeaked through last year. They would vow that so long as they were President America would pay its debts.

Part of playing the propaganda game is having someone with the mental acuity, the charm and the charisma to get it done.
Sure, best care scenario today is that Biden might sign the orders, he might do the right thing. But he will never win the public to his side the way Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama could.
If we must campaign, we will be doing so without a leader - and THAT is damaging.
Why show your hand too soon as the executive, especially when there are middling voters that are worried about overreach (and this derailing the narrative that Republicans are the problem)? Let Republicans dig their own grave before you have to take those more extreme steps.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
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This backfired on the Repugs the last time I think.

It should this time too. But would help if we had a president that was inspiring and had a good physical presence to be able to go out there on camera and denounce this nonsense. But we don't, and a lot of Dems are ok with just accepting that for some reason for the next go around. A testament to a chunk of the Dem party that is just too willing to compromise too often.
Yeah, that made all the difference for Obama...

I really don't get the Biden hate, just shows people value BS more than actual policy.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
88,001
55,425
136
Having a fit President would also mean having someone that would stand up and oppose the Republicans. Directly oppose, as in ignore the debt ceiling. Giving the order to do so. They would also give a public address and explain how it is unconstitutional and that they would be following the letter of the most recent law passed by Congress. The budget they squeaked through last year. They would vow that so long as they were President America would pay its debts.

Part of playing the propaganda game is having someone with the mental acuity, the charm and the charisma to get it done.
Sure, best care scenario today is that Biden might sign the orders, he might do the right thing. But he will never win the public to his side the way Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama could.
If we must campaign, we will be doing so without a leader - and THAT is damaging.
Where is this idea that Obama could win the public to his side through speeches or charisma or whatever coming from?

If you use the search feature you will see countless threads complaining that the Democrats were losing the messaging war and if Obama would just give a few speeches on an issue he would win over the public. The poster would only later find out that Obama was already doing exactly that and it was ineffective.

We do not live in the world of The West Wing. Soaring oratory is vastly overrated as a persuasion tool.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
Yeah, that made all the difference for Obama...

I really don't get the Biden hate, just shows people value BS more than actual policy.

Obama was a great speaker, but too polite for this era and too intellectual and non-confrontational. Today we need someone with more toughness and more able to speak in plain language and be a straight shooter and quick on their feet.

And also, if you haven't noticed, we are in a different political environment/landscape than any of the Obama years. It's another ballgame right now. You think I value BS more than policy? Oh lordy. I have given praise to Biden's accomplishments in office but in case you haven't noticed, shit is getting worse and worse. This is when you need a leader that inspires.

I'm not sure why people can't take critique of Biden, it's like this off-topic thing to them. Very thin skinned and close-minded. I feel sad for the Democratic party when you can't critique it, starting with the leadership role. I think that is a big reason whey we are in this mess - Dems just lack a certain fire to get things done and not always play the safe game (which is not even safe, Biden is not even a shoe in against Trump at this point)

I find it sad people don't think being inspired matters. It's bigly sad. Pseudo intellectual Dems are clueless.




Also, btw, even though Obama is not the right man for the job now, someone of his nature would have definitely beat Trump in 2016
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
I don't see a plan. They are clearly still balancing Biden's re-election efforts with a debt-ceiling standoff and have no definite plan. If they didn't have to worry about Biden running when he probably shouldn't, different story. Biden just doesn't have the presence to parry things. He is coddled with kids gloves away from the media.
Man you spout a lot of republican talking points for someone that hates them so much. I remember Obama got a lot of shit for not talking to the media enough in some X way. It's bad faith BS.

Obama caved on the debt ceiling, and he wasn't being "coddled away from the media."

No one is going to run against Biden, why don't you get over that and start working on winning instead of attaching your own team. Biden has also been extremely successful, with a much worse playing field than Obama had.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
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Man you spout a lot of republican talking points for someone that hates them so much. I remember Obama got a lot of shit for not talking to the media enough in some X way. It's bad faith BS.

Obama caved on the debt ceiling, and he wasn't being "coddled away from the media."

No one is going to run against Biden, why don't you get over that and start working on winning instead of attaching your own team. Biden has also been extremely successful, with a much worse playing field than Obama had.

If Democrats can't look within, then where can they look?

Sorry that bothers you. It's like censorship of self-criticism. That's pretty ridiculous.

This is why we are where we are in the Democratic party in a messed up system.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
Obama was a great speaker, but too polite for this era and too intellectual and non-confrontational. Today we need someone with more toughness and more able to speak in plain language and be a straight shooter and quick on their feet.

And also, if you haven't noticed, we are in a different political environment/landscape than any of the Obama years. It's another ballgame right now. You think I value BS more than policy? Oh lordy. I have given praise to Biden's accomplishments in office but in case you haven't noticed, shit is getting worse and worse. This is when you need a leader that inspires.

I'm not sure why people can't take critique of Biden, it's like this off-topic thing to them. Very thin skinned and close-minded. I feel sad for the Democratic party when you can't critique it, starting with the leadership role. I think that is a big reason whey we are in this mess - Dems just lack a certain fire to get things done and not always play the safe game (which is not even safe, Biden is not even a shoe in against Trump at this point)

I find it sad people don't think being inspired matters. It's bigly sad. Pseudo intellectual Dems are clueless.

Also, btw, even though Obama is not the right man for the job now, someone of his nature would have definitely beat Trump in 2016
I don't mind criticism of Biden, but the Democratic circular firing squad is stupid as shit. What policy do you think you'd get if anyone else was president right now that Biden hasn't gotten? I don't think any of the other 20 people that ran against him would've gotten half of what he has gotten out of this congress.

You basically just sounds like a Bernie Bro, "Why can't we have this mythical other person that doesn't exist and would be so much better than the most effective president in my life time!!! Oh why, why, why? And since I can't get that let me post right-wing talking points bashing my best hope for America not falling into fascist rule, because if I can't have the unobtainium presidential candidate I might as well tear down the best alternative!"
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
I don't mind criticism of Biden, but the Democratic circular firing squad is stupid as shit. What policy do you think you'd get if anyone else was president right now that Biden hasn't gotten? I don't think any of the other 20 people that ran against him would've gotten half of what he has gotten out of this congress.

Apparently you mind criticism of Biden
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
What's funny is, I like Joe Biden. He had some questionable positions in his earlier career, but unlike many politicians, he has evolved into a better person. I think he was the right guy at the right time in 2020.

I don't think he is now, and have made it pretty clear why. God forbid you make an observation like that, you get attacked by a Democratic party that has been caught on its heels for way too long, for this exact reason.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
Having a fit President would also mean having someone that would stand up and oppose the Republicans. Directly oppose, as in ignore the debt ceiling. Giving the order to do so. They would also give a public address and explain how it is unconstitutional and that they would be following the letter of the most recent law passed by Congress. The budget they squeaked through last year. They would vow that so long as they were President America would pay its debts.

Part of playing the propaganda game is having someone with the mental acuity, the charm and the charisma to get it done.
Sure, best care scenario today is that Biden might sign the orders, he might do the right thing. But he will never win the public to his side the way Bill Clinton or Barrack Obama could.
If we must campaign, we will be doing so without a leader - and THAT is damaging.
This may still happen, no one is going to play that card until they absolutely have to.
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
15,613
11,256
136
Apparently you mind criticism of Biden
When it is basically horseshit from Tucker's mouth, yeah. You aren't criticizing his policy you are spouting the right's bullet points against him. He made the GOP look like dumbfucks in the state of the union like 3 months ago, but here you are talking about how he has to be coddled, just like fox news.
 

Meghan54

Lifer
Oct 18, 2009
11,684
5,228
136
Yeah, that made all the difference for Obama...

I really don't get the Biden hate, just shows people value BS more than actual policy.
Bernie Bros if not a MAGA. About describes the lot of them.
 

eelw

Lifer
Dec 4, 1999
10,339
5,492
136
What's funny is, I like Joe Biden. He had some questionable positions in his earlier career, but unlike many politicians, he has evolved into a better person. I think he was the right guy at the right time in 2020.

I don't think he is now, and have made it pretty clear why. God forbid you make an observation like that, you get attacked by a Democratic party that has been caught on its heels for way too long, for this exact reason.
But the question is, who then? Not Harris. Bernie been rejected twice. While Mayor Pete is likely a future POTUS, the MAGAtards won’t put up with a gay guy. Biden needs to flush this orange filth before normalcy can resume.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
When it is basically horseshit from Tucker's mouth, yeah. You aren't criticizing his policy you are spouting the right's bullet points against him. He made the GOP look like dumbfucks in the state of the union like 3 months ago, but here you are talking about how he has to be coddled, just like fox news.

Biden can read speeches ok, he has a shining moment here or there. I posted an article earlier showing how little Biden interacts with the news media. It's the third lowest in presidential history. You can avoid the facts, but I don't think it would be wise. It's pretty evident that they handle Biden with kid gloves at this point. It's hard to admit for people it seems though.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,802
11,444
136
But the question is, who then? Not Harris. Bernie been rejected twice. While Mayor Pete is likely a future POTUS, the MAGAtards won’t put up with a gay guy. Biden needs to flush this orange filth before normalcy can resume.

Likely Newsom.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,397
136
Bernie Bros if not a MAGA. About describes the lot of them.

You are a fucking idiot. You can see all my posting during the 2016 election, once it became clear that Biden was the nominee, I was all behind him and I campaigned for him on my social media and to all my friends and family, of which some were really not happy that he got the nomination. I have also given him plenty of credit for what he accomplished.

This is the issue with pseudo intellectual corporate Dems though, once you don't toe the party line, you are just as bad as the repugs.

It's great Biden won in 2020 - of the Dem nominees he was probably the only one at the time - like I said right man right time - FUCKING BARELY though, something people gloss over when they don't want to live in reality. I went and partied in the streets of NYC when he did too. God forbid you have any self-awareness of your political party to call them out for the fuck ups though.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
26,144
12,344
136
What's funny is, I like Joe Biden. He had some questionable positions in his earlier career, but unlike many politicians, he has evolved into a better person. I think he was the right guy at the right time in 2020.

I don't think he is now, and have made it pretty clear why. God forbid you make an observation like that, you get attacked by a Democratic party that has been caught on its heels for way too long, for this exact reason.
Name someone else on the Dem side that's "up and coming" and most importantly can keep another Republican presidency from becoming our next reality.