Hot new sports sedan from...Kia?

Fritzo

Lifer
Jan 3, 2001
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I present: the Kia Stinger. What say you?

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2018-kia-stinger-first-drive-review

“Jenny, ich liebe dich!” The giant scrawl of graffiti flashed past the straining Kia Stinger on a wall somewhere around the Metzgesfeld bit of the Nürburgring Nordschleife, part of the endless spaghetti of scribble that decorates every inch of this crazy track. Jenny, wherever you are, we sure hope you appreciate the trouble your homeboy went to.

Like Jenny’s mensch, the Kia Stinger is a little ballsy, from the cartoonish name to the swagger in its styling to the hatchback body to the rear-drive platform. So is the market mission, which seems such a stark disconnect from the cheap-and-chipper Kia defined by its runaway best-seller, the Soul. Likely to sell for $30,000 to $40,000 (we’re extrapolating, based on hints dropped by the factory reps), the Stinger takes Kia into new realms dominated by serious players such as the Audi A4 and the BMW 3-series.

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What is Kia offering? A big car in its class, for starters, the Stinger’s 114.4-inch wheelbase being almost four inches longer than that of a 3-series and just 1.7 inches shorter than a Porsche Panamera’s. The back seat has cross-your-legs room, but the factory-stated curb weights come in a little high, ranging from about 3650 pounds for a base 2.0-liter to 3900 for the loaded all-wheel-drive version.


This Kia is also daring people to be different, with a hatchback body and seats that are hailed as lower than the competition’s (for better handling, of course). Australian journalists who were along on the event told us that their nation is hotly anticipating the Stinger, which is seen as picking up the thread of the late Ford Falcon and the fading Holden Commodore, both large, rear-drive sedans.


Well, outside of that small, strange market, the Stinger will be greeted mainly as an amusing anomaly from an unexpected source. Chief designer Gregory Guillaume told us that the Stinger’s styling inspiration was the grand GTs he saw as a boy bombing down the Autoroute du Soleil to the south of France, especially the Maserati Ghibli. You have to squint—really squint—to see it, but okay. Such dreaminess is what happens when Koreans go out and hire Europeans and give them free hand to design and develop the cars.

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This and the Nürburgring, because besides Guillaume, who Kia pinched from Volkswagen in 2005, the Hyundai Motor Group also in late 2014 lured Albert Biermann away from what must be one of the best gigs in the industry, running BMW’s M GmbH. Biermann says his first job at Kia became to “try to match the dynamic experience with the emotional appearance” of the Stinger.

Kia was so hot to show off the fruits of its European HR initiatives that it invited journalists to the ’Ring to sample the sportiest Stinger, the twin-turbocharged GT, on the same 12.9-mile Nordschleife where engineers did some of the development work. The only problem: We got just three laps, two in a rear-drive Stinger and one lap in an all-wheel-drive model, all behind a lead car driven at 10-10ths from the go signal. Which is akin to being asked to make intelligent comments about a car’s ride and handling after spending 34 minutes with it underwater.

What we can say is that the Stinger GT, which trades the base 255-hp turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-four for a twin-turbo 3.3-liter V-6 making 365 horsepower, feels like a car built by people who like cars, and it is not a complete mess when confronted with a track. Quite the opposite, in fact. Considering this is a Kia—whose previous rear-drive sedan was the K900—this is big news.

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Biermann and his boys did their best to shrink the big Stinger at speed, laboring over bushing choices to give it lively, reactive steering and, on the 19-inch wheels with their standard Michelin Pilot Sport 4 tires, tenacious grip. Blessed with a stiff structure, the Stinger likes to turn, and it rewards your decision to take it to a German megatrack with precise path control and neutral handling that pushes into understeer none too early.

Well, certainly for the rear-drive Stinger, which can be steered with the throttle through its mechanically locking limited-slip differential and will, we’re assured, make a fabulous drift car once the electronic stability control is switched off. We were admonished not to turn it off—and weren’t even told that there is a Sport setting if you push the off button once. Thus, all impressions were in Comfort or Sport mode, where the ESC, surprisingly, mostly stays out of your face anyway.

The all-wheel driver is a hair softer and more prone to understeer, although the torque-transfer system is biased toward rear-drive. Consider the front wheels more of an assist axle for all-weather driving, which is exactly as it should be.

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The 3.3-liter engine—also seen in the Genesis G90, the G80 Sport, and the upcoming G70, which will share the Stinger’s platform but with a shorter wheelbase and different styling—serves up the sauce with an eager pull and a baritone burble. The only complaint we had with the eight-speed automatic and its three overdrive ratios was an unwillingness at times to respond to the paddles in manual mode. Considering that the Stinger doesn’t go on sale in the United States until December, there’s time to work out the software bugs.

With large, relatively inexpensive rear-drive sedans in short supply—and the Dodge Charger nearing the end of a very long life—the Stinger promises to be a satisfying niche filler from the most unlikely of sources. We eagerly await more time in it and a chance to drive it at normal speeds.
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
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With that much weight, not sure you could call the I4 model a "hot" sedan, but the V6 is interesting. Kinda looks like a HSV and 335i had a baby.
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
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Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing there Dave. Generally when somebody says "hot" they're referring to a performance-ish car, IE hot hatches. None of the cars in that C&D link are considered performance cars or sports sedan. Not in base configuration anyways. Basically every car in that list save for the Audi has a 300hp+ option and specifically stated on more than one that the "base" model wasn't as fun to drive. The Kia looks to be a solid entry level sedan, but that base model isn't going to be checking anybody's "performance" box.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing there Dave. Generally when somebody says "hot" they're referring to a performance-ish car, IE hot hatches. None of the cars in that C&D link are considered performance cars or sports sedan. Not in base configuration anyways. Basically every car in that list save for the Audi has a 300hp+ option and specifically stated on more than one that the "base" model wasn't as fun to drive. The Kia looks to be a solid entry level sedan, but that base model isn't going to be checking anybody's "performance" box.
I didn't say it was "hot*," I'm just saying it's equipped similarly to a lot of the competition.

*whatever your threshold for hot is.
 

Pulsar

Diamond Member
Mar 3, 2003
5,224
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Yeah... I can't really call this a sports sedan. I struggle when car and driver (who stopped doing anything meaningful a lot time ago) starts blabbing BMW this and Porsche that - about a car that they admittedly weren't even allowed to drive. Just a little too much love and no where near enough critical commentary.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,999
3,759
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Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing there Dave. Generally when somebody says "hot" they're referring to a performance-ish car, IE hot hatches. None of the cars in that C&D link are considered performance cars or sports sedan. Not in base configuration anyways. Basically every car in that list save for the Audi has a 300hp+ option and specifically stated on more than one that the "base" model wasn't as fun to drive. The Kia looks to be a solid entry level sedan, but that base model isn't going to be checking anybody's "performance" box.
That's subjective:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_sedan#Concept

Many of these "base" 4 bangers can do 0-60 in about 6 seconds flat. Not too long ago, that would be considered very fast for a road car. Obviously handling is a factor as well, and there's a bigger range there according to reviewers.

As for the Kia Stinger, it's towards the upper end of the weight range for these cars. I find the styling to be derivative. Which makes sense as the article states Hyundai Group hired away the boss of BMW M. From a marketing standpoint, it would have made more sense to to pick a better name and to use a luxury nameplate (Genesis?) instead of Kia Motors. This car looks like it was copied from the Germans, and for the people who want to spend $40k on an entry-level luxury car, who's gonna want a "Kia Stinger"?
 

XavierMace

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Apr 20, 2013
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I didn't say it was "hot*," I'm just saying it's equipped similarly to a lot of the competition.

*whatever your threshold for hot is.

No but I was directly replying to the OP's statement of "hot" and you replied to me, so.... Not saying this isn't competitive offering, but none of the other cars on that list are what you'd consider sporty in their base offering.

Many of these "base" 4 bangers can do 0-60 in about 6 seconds flat. Not too long ago, that would be considered very fast for a road car.

The fact that 6 seconds was fast in the past is moot. That's the same argument people make in defense of cars like the FRS/BRZ and Miata, which I say as a former owner of a BRZ. Those cars have good qualities, just like I'm sure the base version of this Kia does. Quickness is not one of them compared to other modern cars. "Hot" hatches in the same price segment as this Kia is expected to be (Focus RS, Golf R, WRX STI) are 5 seconds or less.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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No but I was directly replying to the OP's statement of "hot" and you replied to me, so.... Not saying this isn't competitive offering, but none of the other cars on that list are what you'd consider sporty in their base offering.



The fact that 6 seconds was fast in the past is moot. That's the same argument people make in defense of cars like the FRS/BRZ and Miata, which I say as a former owner of a BRZ. Those cars have good qualities, just like I'm sure the base version of this Kia does. Quickness is not one of them compared to other modern cars. "Hot" hatches in the same price segment as this Kia is expected to be (Focus RS, Golf R, WRX STI) are 5 seconds or less.

"Hot hatches" like the Focus RS are completely different cars for a completely different purpose, compared to luxury sedans. Being a similar price is irrelevant.
 

XavierMace

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2013
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"Hot hatches" like the Focus RS are completely different cars for a completely different purpose, compared to luxury sedans. Being a similar price is irrelevant.

Again, you seem to be missing my point. OP is referring to these at "hot" sedans. If they aren't fast, what makes them "hot". Not saying they aren't decent luxury cars. But I've never heard of a LS450 or 750il referred to as a "hot" sedan nor ANY of the base model luxury sedans. The fact that they're testing these on the Ring would seem to indicate they're planning on marketing these as performance sedans, therefore them being competitive with base model, non performance luxury sedans is irrelevant. As it stands right now my stock 135i is faster than any of these Kia's and was in the same price range.
 
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pauldun170

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Sep 26, 2011
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I'll summarize the future final real world assessment of the car.
Like just about every Hyundai and Kia on the market for decades, a feature packed styling exercise with vague, lifeless steering and an uncomposed suspension on real roads, will delight buyers who are really just A - B appliance type people at heart.

Not saying its a bad car. Just saying they have a different definition of "sorted"
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
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They only managed 365hp from a twin turbo V6?

I'm sure you can get quite a bit more out of it. They did focus on making an engine with very little latency and peak torque at very low rpms. I think this engine gets there at only around 1300-1400rpm compared to some other comparable engines doing it 2200-2400rpm.


Again, you seem to be missing my point. OP is referring to these at "hot" sedans. If they aren't fast, what makes them "hot".

Styling? I'd bet if you ask the average person what "hot" meant when you described a car, they would say "what it looks like".
 
Feb 25, 2011
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Coincidentally, I read a Jalopnik review today that referred to the 2017 Accord Hybrid as "hot."

Words are meaningless, and I am lost in a sea of WTF. Bleep bloop the mainsail, Mr. Smithers, I'm coming home to daddy. Fork dies by midnight!
 
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Pulsar

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Coincidentally, I read a Jalopnik review today that referred to the 2017 Accord Hybrid as "hot."

Words are meaningless, and I am lost in a sea of WTF. Bleep bloop the mainsail, Mr. Smithers, I'm coming home to daddy. Fork dies by midnight!

You have to expect it. If you're publishing a magazine, being the first to get a 'review' out there on a new vehicle drives readership. And the manufacturers control early access. So either do a glowing review and keep your access, or do a real review and get put out of business.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
12,999
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No but I was directly replying to the OP's statement of "hot" and you replied to me, so.... Not saying this isn't competitive offering, but none of the other cars on that list are what you'd consider sporty in their base offering.
"Hot" is very subjective. I don't personally like the styling of the Stinger, but it's obvious they were shooting for a sporty sedan as opposed to a conservative aesthetic such as say a Lexus ES. The naming choice is also indicative of that aim.

The fact that 6 seconds was fast in the past is moot. That's the same argument people make in defense of cars like the FRS/BRZ and Miata, which I say as a former owner of a BRZ. Those cars have good qualities, just like I'm sure the base version of this Kia does. Quickness is not one of them compared to other modern cars. "Hot" hatches in the same price segment as this Kia is expected to be (Focus RS, Golf R, WRX STI) are 5 seconds or less.
Again, whether a car is a sports sedan is subjective. I'm assuming the Stinger will be a bit poky compared to other cars in this class. But even the "base" Audi A4 or BMW 328i are pretty fast at 0-60 mph in 5.5s give or take. I'm not trying to say you're wrong but your definition leans more towards high performance than the average consumer buying this class of car as a daily driver. As you can certainly attest to, it's not only straight line speed but also driving dynamics.

So it's a matter of opinion, but the base Stinger could (possibly) be considered a "sport sedan", and also be heavier and slower than its competitors. We can agree to disagree. :D
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
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I'll summarize the future final real world assessment of the car.
Like just about every Hyundai and Kia on the market for decades, a feature packed styling exercise with vague, lifeless steering and an uncomposed suspension on real roads, will delight buyers who are really just A - B appliance type people at heart.

Not saying its a bad car. Just saying they have a different definition of "sorted"

Their newer suspension is rather good after opening that development center near the Ring. This run for journalists is there presumably due to proximity, even if it's not mentioned in the article.

Hyundai always seem to be a pretty competent company which gets right the things they set a mind to.

Is that a gussied up Optima?

Yeah they gussied up an optima with rwd.
 

XavierMace

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Apr 20, 2013
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"Hot" is very subjective. I don't personally like the styling of the Stinger, but it's obvious they were shooting for a sporty sedan as opposed to a conservative aesthetic such as say a Lexus ES. The naming choice is also indicative of that aim.

Yet a 6.0s 0-60 matches an ES350. That's my point. It's got sporty-ish styling, they're testing on a track, all signs point to towards this being a "sports" sedan. We don't have an official price, just their estimated BASE pricing. But their tests are with the higher end GT model. Now, if that estimated BASE price includes the GT, that's a bit of a different story.

But, lets say the base model is designed to compete with a 320i (which is just about the slowest car BMW sells). I've never seen that called a sports sedan. The Kia actually has a performance advantage here, but that's not saying much. The Kia, however, has substantially worse gas mileage and looks to likely be slightly more expensive. Without sitting in the Kia, I can't really judge the quality of the interior or the ride quality. But, if I wanted a sports sedan, I wouldn't be looking at a 320i. At that price/performance, I'd be looking at an ES anyways. The 330i is right about in the middle of the estimated BASE price range of the Kia. Still has better fuel economy, and you're down to a 5.5s 0-60. No, acceleration isn't everything. But given the cars weight, they're somewhat limited in how much they can do on the handling front. We're not talking a BRZ/Miata here. The 340i comes in at the top of the estimated BASE price range of the Kia. You're down to a 4.8s 0-60 at that point, still with better fuel economy. An IS350 F Sport comes in at the middle of the price range too, a 5.5s 0-60 and Lexus's normal impeccable quality.

That's making the Kia a hard sell in my book.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
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Yet a 6.0s 0-60 matches an ES350. That's my point. It's got sporty-ish styling, they're testing on a track, all signs point to towards this being a "sports" sedan. We don't have an official price, just their estimated BASE pricing. But their tests are with the higher end GT model. Now, if that estimated BASE price includes the GT, that's a bit of a different story.

But, lets say the base model is designed to compete with a 320i (which is just about the slowest car BMW sells). I've never seen that called a sports sedan. The Kia actually has a performance advantage here, but that's not saying much. The Kia, however, has substantially worse gas mileage and looks to likely be slightly more expensive. Without sitting in the Kia, I can't really judge the quality of the interior or the ride quality. But, if I wanted a sports sedan, I wouldn't be looking at a 320i. At that price/performance, I'd be looking at an ES anyways. The 330i is right about in the middle of the estimated BASE price range of the Kia. Still has better fuel economy, and you're down to a 5.5s 0-60. No, acceleration isn't everything. But given the cars weight, they're somewhat limited in how much they can do on the handling front. We're not talking a BRZ/Miata here. The 340i comes in at the top of the estimated BASE price range of the Kia. You're down to a 4.8s 0-60 at that point, still with better fuel economy. An IS350 F Sport comes in at the middle of the price range too, a 5.5s 0-60 and Lexus's normal impeccable quality.

That's making the Kia a hard sell in my book.

It's nearing 5series/A6 sized car for a lower end 3series price. It's a value proposition as all kias are.

Also the v6 is supposed to be ~5sec 0-60 as the spec physics would imply. I have no idea why anyone would give a shit though, people willing to pay $ for performance or at least the image of it probably wouldn't get a kia anyway.
 
Feb 25, 2011
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I have no idea why anyone would give a shit though, people willing to pay $ for performance or at least the image of it probably wouldn't get a kia anyway.

They keep trying though.

Heck. One of the most unsetting things about Iron Fist was that Hyundai sponsored it. So you had these billionaires driving around in Elantras and stuff.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,582
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I like the formula. The styling is nice...although a bit too busy in some places. Interested in how it will drive.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
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from the side kinda looks like a jaguar.


i hate air extractors. so ugly. there's only a few cars where they're well done and this ain't one.