http://www.edmunds.com/advice/ is a really good resource.
Check out the Dealer Holdback/Kickback article too!
Check out the Dealer Holdback/Kickback article too!
This method of emailing/phoning dealerships does work. A co-worker of mine used these steps a few months ago on a (surprise, surprise) Honda Accord. After emailing each of the dealerships in the area with exactly what she wanted, she then followed-up with each of them to played them off each other. She finally settled for the car she wanted and all the upgrades she wanted for $800 less than invoice. Might not be the best deal, but a price she was very satisfied with.
Also, I've heard that there are several type of Kelley Car books out there, like a Blue book, a Brown book, etc. Dealers use the one type of book for their prices, and most consumers use the Blue book. Can anyone confirm this?
Also, I've heard that there are several type of Kelley Car books out there, like a Blue book, a Brown book, etc. Dealers use the one type of book for their prices, and most consumers use the Blue book. Can anyone confirm this?
emailing does work..
I help my parents buy a town and country that way. Also I am currently buying either a mazda millenia or an Accord EX that way. I told both Honda dealers and Mazda dealers that I am choosing between both these cars and that I am emailed about 5 dealers (10 total) in the area with exactly what I want in terms of options. I am prob gonna go with MAzda but still getting the emails undercutting each other..
I help my parents buy a town and country that way. Also I am currently buying either a mazda millenia or an Accord EX that way. I told both Honda dealers and Mazda dealers that I am choosing between both these cars and that I am emailed about 5 dealers (10 total) in the area with exactly what I want in terms of options. I am prob gonna go with MAzda but still getting the emails undercutting each other..
emailing definately does work... I bought 2 cars in the last 4 months via email... plus it also makes it very easy and straight forward... go to the dealership, inspect the car... finish paperwork and leave... no other BS at all...
well, email and loss leader ad do not work in Atlanta, GA. I tried em all to get a deal on accord 2002 and failed.
Any one from GA with success story?:disgust:
Any one from GA with success story?:disgust:
Interesting thread. I havent heard any comments regarding "fleet" priciing. Does anyone have any experience with this concept? I have a friend from work just did this with great results. I am in So Cal and he called the auto club (AAA) and used them to get the fleet price. He told them what make and model he wanted and they set up the deal with the fleet manager. My friend told me that the dealers get so much business this way that they go for the volume to make their profits. I haven't tried this yet so I was wondering if anyone else has done this and what the results were?
Emailing is fine.
However, considering the time and effort even with email back and forth and all that ...
go through an auto broker because they do the exact thing that this post is talking about and you can save yourself the headache (unless you like the email dickering kind of thing). Same concept as a Mortgage broker and we all know how accepted Mortgage brokers are in the lending industry.
They know all the local managers by name and business. You tell the broker exactly what you want and the broker will do the dirty work for you. The dealership managers will take the broker seriously right off the bat because they know that a sale is almost there. Unless you deal with savvy dealerships (not all will engage in email dickering - although i'm not saying it won't work of course). The majority of the time you will get a quote that will be tough to beat otherwise.
That's the easy way to do it.
If you have the time and the inclination to do it yourself make it a bit easier on yourself by timing your foray into the car buying market by sticking to the end of the month or week where quota bonuses kick in. A manager or salesperson will be more willing to give into your demands if you give him/her an opportunity to make a sale when it counts for something more.
Last thing is to find the cost ratio if you can. Some services out there for a fee will calculate a cost ratio for your car in question which will make it dead simple to negotiate. The cost ratio will incorporate the holdback, factory to dealer incentives, your local market and all that stuff. Make sure that you only pay a small percentage of the dealer prep which is total ripoff. You can try dickering the freight as well but that seems a bit more difficult to touch.
Of course, more popular and desirable models may not sell for anything less than msrp.
For a good general idea of the price target of a particular automobile just go to Intellichoice and look for their "target price" for your model. That will give a general idea of the dickering market you will encounter.
However, considering the time and effort even with email back and forth and all that ...
go through an auto broker because they do the exact thing that this post is talking about and you can save yourself the headache (unless you like the email dickering kind of thing). Same concept as a Mortgage broker and we all know how accepted Mortgage brokers are in the lending industry.
They know all the local managers by name and business. You tell the broker exactly what you want and the broker will do the dirty work for you. The dealership managers will take the broker seriously right off the bat because they know that a sale is almost there. Unless you deal with savvy dealerships (not all will engage in email dickering - although i'm not saying it won't work of course). The majority of the time you will get a quote that will be tough to beat otherwise.
That's the easy way to do it.
If you have the time and the inclination to do it yourself make it a bit easier on yourself by timing your foray into the car buying market by sticking to the end of the month or week where quota bonuses kick in. A manager or salesperson will be more willing to give into your demands if you give him/her an opportunity to make a sale when it counts for something more.
Last thing is to find the cost ratio if you can. Some services out there for a fee will calculate a cost ratio for your car in question which will make it dead simple to negotiate. The cost ratio will incorporate the holdback, factory to dealer incentives, your local market and all that stuff. Make sure that you only pay a small percentage of the dealer prep which is total ripoff. You can try dickering the freight as well but that seems a bit more difficult to touch.
Of course, more popular and desirable models may not sell for anything less than msrp.
For a good general idea of the price target of a particular automobile just go to Intellichoice and look for their "target price" for your model. That will give a general idea of the dickering market you will encounter.
EXman
Lifer
- Jul 12, 2001
- 20,079
- 15
- 81
I used to be a dealer .... why would anyone want to pay a broker? (just an extra fee) it is not hard to buy a car folks, just go to your credit union and get financing and bring your checkbook with you when you test drive. Ask for there best offer and then walk out do the e-mail thing, which dealers hate but they have to do it because everyone else does, do your shopping e-mail your offer to them see which one gets closest and buy it.
If you have a trade that will F*&^ things up. cause if you get their best price and then you throw in a trade they will have to give you an "ACV" Actual Cash Value (trade value) and when you see how little your car is worth in ACV or how upside down you are (like say you owe 30k on a car that has an ACV of 24k you are Upsidedown alot) in your car you'll want to pull your hair out . Alot of dealers will work you a price after the trade showing you a great trade value but they do not take much off the sticker because they discount the car and throw it into your trade so your trade looks good. It is a numbers game.
Once I showed someone $1000 for a car worth ACV $150 (NADA book) car and the guy wanted to kiss me (exit only pal) Yes I did get his business.
I always hated people drive up in a new SUV to trade because they hate the gas milage or whatever and they were thousands in the hole. Jeep cherokees, 4runners, and Monteros owners get hit real hard those things are a dime a dozen and their ACV aint sh!t :Q which means some of them are so upside down no one can trade it unless they came up with thousands of dollars out of there own pocket to cover their inequity. ( there is only so much the finance company will let you pay for a car.)
Personally people buying any new car is a waste if you can buy a 2 year older model you will not have to eat the 2 year depreciation that is the most % wise drop your vehical will ever take let someone esle pay the depreciation and you'll laugh all the way to the bank.
Leasing sucks too UNLESS you use it for work and you can write it off or you are one of those people that trades every 3-4 years and do not mind a car payment for the rest of your life. then leasing is for you mind you your credit has to be good to lease not everyone qualifies. especially Honda they are picky. But if you have a 700 emperical score you should be fine. 700 is a magic # if you are there or over it you can usually get the great financing dealers offer. another thing if you are under 18-23years old and you have almost no credit at all it is the same as having bad credit unfortunatly just the way the system works.
I know this is a sucky read but the more tips you here from people on the dealer side the better. good luck and buy a 2-3 year old car with warranty left! IMHO
Here's how you get the best price on any car new or used. Marry someone who works in the business. Then you get cost! Like me! LOL!
We bought a 99 intrepid in 2000 for $14,600, at the time the car retailed for $18,000.
I bought a brand new 2000 Dodge Dakota for $21,000 after everything, which at the time you couldn't get for under $25,000.
You also get labor at half the price, a real nice benny.
We bought a 99 intrepid in 2000 for $14,600, at the time the car retailed for $18,000.
I bought a brand new 2000 Dodge Dakota for $21,000 after everything, which at the time you couldn't get for under $25,000.
You also get labor at half the price, a real nice benny.
I actually got my Honda Accord 2002 EX-L (V6) with wheel locks, visor, and splash guards at a Honda Dealership in Atlanta Georgia actually. They seemed to be the best place for me to get my deal, as I am in Birmingham, Alabama. They rocked and gave me the best deal that nobody could touch from any other Georgia dealership, any other TEnnesee dealership, and any other Mississippi dealership. Atlanta has great car prices, plus I didn't have to play Georgia tax!!
Whats the name of the dealership? is this sedan our coupe?
How bout you mention how much you pay for it than we tell you whether you got a deal or not?
Sorry.
It was a Honda Accord 2002 Coupe. Ex-L (V6) with Visor, Wheel locks, and Spoiler. I paid 20,500 + doc fee + Alabama tax. I also ended up getting the extended warranty, so that increased the price. (The 20,500 does not include extended warranty).
Anyway though, I thought it was a hot deal! I hope you guys think the same.. i bought it about 6 weeks ago.
I hope it helps.
It was a Honda Accord 2002 Coupe. Ex-L (V6) with Visor, Wheel locks, and Spoiler. I paid 20,500 + doc fee + Alabama tax. I also ended up getting the extended warranty, so that increased the price. (The 20,500 does not include extended warranty).
Anyway though, I thought it was a hot deal!
I hope you guys think the same.. i bought it about 6 weeks ago. I hope it helps.
RossMAN
Grand Nagus
- Feb 24, 2000
- 79,061
- 450
- 136
dyn0 - Thanks for the info but you didn't answer awanSky's first question which is, what GA dealership did you buy your Accord from?
What is the dealership's full name and if you have the address and phone number as well that would be greatly appreciated.
Which salesperson did you deal with?
What is the dealership's full name and if you have the address and phone number as well that would be greatly appreciated.
Which salesperson did you deal with?
KAMAZON
Golden Member
Originally posted by: apoppin
However if you are going for the "real bargain" - the ad car at the ad price - you must go and negotiate in person (and be a patient negotiator).
I got my brand new 2002 Kia Rio for $5988 (cash, no trade in). Try that with e-mail correspondence.
Can I get one at that price??
Why not? What fee are we talking about exactly anyways? I'm not sure how brokers worked where you are but where I am the brokers work just like Mortgage Brokers ... there is no fee.
You DON'T pay any fee to the auto broker as they get paid by the dealership for bringing in business to them. Having said all this you should get a comparable price to emailing and/or dickering in person not withstanding tradeins and all that. Given the work that they would do for you to get your business and the potential hassle that you would save in the process then any financial investment for an auto broker would still be a savvy deal for the consumer.
This is EXACTLY why manufacturers like Toyota and others are trying to introduce changes to the car buying process that would shut out other alternative ways of doing business with the dealerships and manufacturers ie: brokers. I had a long discussion with a friend of mine's husband who was the financing manager for a large local Toyota dealership and he admitted and owned up to this "read between the lines" dissection.
In an nutshell, they want more and more people to walk onto the lot and do battle on THEIR terms which of course tends to extract more cash from your wallet.
So, a broker can do away with most of this leaving you relatively stress free and a car at a good price.
But hey, whatever floats everyone's boat is alright with me. I think that if you are going to spend a bunch of money that one should be versed in the many alternatives to find what works best for you.
Why not? What fee are we talking about exactly anyways? I'm not sure how brokers worked where you are but where I am the brokers work just like Mortgage Brokers ... there is no fee.
You DON'T pay any fee to the auto broker as they get paid by the dealership for bringing in business to them.
This just doesn't make economic sense.. Where do you tihink the dealership extracts the money to pay for a broker?
Most likely they somehow add this to the price of the car. Any middleman will add cost to the transation.
I mean think about it. When I buy something directly from the manufacturer then I just pay for the cost of production and the extra for their profits. IF I include a middleman the middleman MUST get paid. THis middleman doesn't work for nothing. If he does give me his name and number so I can get this guy to not only buy my car but do my laundry, clean my house and any other thing I need done around the house
You DON'T pay any fee to the auto broker as they get paid by the dealership for bringing in business to them.
This just doesn't make economic sense.. Where do you tihink the dealership extracts the money to pay for a broker?
Most likely they somehow add this to the price of the car. Any middleman will add cost to the transation.
I mean think about it. When I buy something directly from the manufacturer then I just pay for the cost of production and the extra for their profits. IF I include a middleman the middleman MUST get paid. THis middleman doesn't work for nothing. If he does give me his name and number so I can get this guy to not only buy my car but do my laundry, clean my house and any other thing I need done around the house
Originally posted by: dyn0
Sorry.
It was a Honda Accord 2002 Coupe. Ex-L (V6) with Visor, Wheel locks, and Spoiler. I paid 20,500 + doc fee + Alabama tax. I also ended up getting the extended warranty, so that increased the price. (The 20,500 does not include extended warranty).
Anyway though, I thought it was a hot deal!
I hope it helps.
Not bad... Please post the name of the dealer and salesman (like Rossman said) I will contact em for sedan's price.
edit: This coupe and sedan thing keep messin me up.
Originally posted by: hojl
This just doesn't make economic sense.. Where do you tihink the dealership extracts the money to pay for a broker?
Most likely they somehow add this to the price of the car. Any middleman will add cost to the transation.
I mean think about it. When I buy something directly from the manufacturer then I just pay for the cost of production and the extra for their profits. IF I include a middleman the middleman MUST get paid. THis middleman doesn't work for nothing. If he does give me his name and number so I can get this guy to not only buy my car but do my laundry, clean my house and any other thing I need done around the house
Of course it makes economic sense because it's already been thought out. You are on the right track but you fail to realize the relationship that an auto broker has with a dealer. Ever bought a house? I have. Heard about mortgage brokers? I've used one. Well, they are all over the place and the smart choice to do business. Auto brokers are the same thing. I'll rehash it again for those who are unfamiliar with the concept.
Dealers don't like shmoes walking into the dealership kicking tires because it takes TIME and EFFORT to get a sale. Brokers are welcomed by dealers and managers because they bring in VOLUME and a serious intent to buy as they represent a customer. Brokers canvass the local dealerships with the make, model, trim and options the customer wants, the local managers bid their best price more readily BECAUSE they know a sale is on the line. So, this method in a way can be more effective than some person trying to horse trade via email. Think about it - dealer gets an email from unknown person OR gets a phone call from an established broker that has done millions of dollars of business over the years with them. Who is he/her going to take seriously and bring their best foot forward?
So, getting back to the main point you made - being a middleman. I understand what you are getting at but it doesn't apply to this situation because ... all that matters is the BOTTOM LINE or the PRICE you pay. It doesn't matter if the broker gets paid by you or the dealership (usually dealership for bringing in business to them just as mortgage brokers get paid by the lender). The dealer absorbs the cost of a broker in return for high volume sales and volume discounts from the manufacturer which also nets manufacturer to dealer incentives. In the grand scheme of things what the auto broker offers cannot be turned down by the dealer for it offers another avenue for revenue apart from the sales floor. So, a broker doesn't add to the cost of the transaction ... it's part of the transaction that's balanced by the prospect of volume sales and greater benefits to the dealer potentially far greater than any brokerage fee of which only amounts to maybe 2-300 bucks. That's the specific relationship of brokers in the auto and mortgage industry.
20,000 paid is 20,000 paid regardless. Somewhere in that 20,000 the broker gets paid but you don't care as the customer as long as you only pay 20,000 and not one penny more.
So, if a good broker can offer a deal as good or better than what you can do for yourself then the concept of "opportunity cost" kicks in. What does it cost you to kick tires, squabble and play games at a dealership possibly on a nice day for 5-7 hours sacrificing family time, computer time, medal of honor time, beach time, sex time ... when you can get the broker to do it for you ... and probably get a better deal than what you can on your own.
Having said this I believe that it's a great experience to do battle in the car dealership arena once in your life.
A good broker is an alternative to the car buying process not an end-all-be-all but if you can find a good one you can save yourself both money and time and get a good deal.
"So, getting back to the main point you made - being a middleman. I understand what you are getting at but it doesn't apply to this situation because ... all that matters is the BOTTOM LINE or the PRICE you pay. It doesn't matter if the broker gets paid by you or the dealership (usually dealership for bringing in business to them just as mortgage brokers get paid by the lender). The dealer absorbs the cost of a broker in return for high volume sales and volume discounts from the manufacturer which also nets manufacturer to dealer incentives. In the grand scheme of things what the auto broker offers cannot be turned down by the dealer for it offers another avenue for revenue apart from the sales floor. So, a broker doesn't add to the cost of the transaction ... it's part of the transaction that's balanced by the prospect of volume sales and greater benefits to the dealer potentially far greater than any brokerage fee of which only amounts to maybe 2-300 bucks. That's the specific relationship of brokers in the auto and mortgage industry. "
You are assuming that the dealer will absorb the cost of a broker in return for high volume sales. Lets suppose the broker fee is 100 dollars. Do you really think a car dealer will absorb all this 100 dollars since he knows that the broker buys cars from him? What I mean is that don't you think it is more reasonable to assume that 100 dollar broker fee is somehow divided? lets assume that the dealer for whatever reason will absorb 80 dollars, well the other 20 dollars goes somewhere? Where do you think it goes? it gets added to the price of the car. The exact split of who absorbs what portion of the broker's fee depends on the elasticity of the demand and supply curve. Since I do not study the automotive industy I wouldn't know these elasticities. However, unless the dealer fully dependent on the services of a broker, the dealer can deflect some of the cost of the broker to the other side or the consumer.
"So, if a good broker can offer a deal as good or better than what you can do for yourself then the concept of "opportunity cost" kicks in. What does it cost you to kick tires, squabble and play games at a dealership possibly on a nice day for 5-7 hours sacrificing family time, computer time, medal of honor time, beach time, sex time ... when you can get the broker to do it for you ... and probably get a better deal than what you can on your own."
The key assumption you have made (I am not saying it is valid or not since I never used a broker) is that you need to be offered a good deal or better deal than the price you had in mind when walking into a broker's office. Again this is the key assumption to make your argument hold and gets back to my point above. I have in mind 20000 for a car and if the broker can only do 20500 then I am getting a bad deal if my oppurtunity cost is less than 500 dollars. This is again linked to who needs the broker services more the consumer or the dealer. The dealer will never absorb all of the fees of the broker unless he is fully dependent on these brokers and we know this is not true.
You are assuming that the dealer will absorb the cost of a broker in return for high volume sales. Lets suppose the broker fee is 100 dollars. Do you really think a car dealer will absorb all this 100 dollars since he knows that the broker buys cars from him? What I mean is that don't you think it is more reasonable to assume that 100 dollar broker fee is somehow divided? lets assume that the dealer for whatever reason will absorb 80 dollars, well the other 20 dollars goes somewhere? Where do you think it goes? it gets added to the price of the car. The exact split of who absorbs what portion of the broker's fee depends on the elasticity of the demand and supply curve. Since I do not study the automotive industy I wouldn't know these elasticities. However, unless the dealer fully dependent on the services of a broker, the dealer can deflect some of the cost of the broker to the other side or the consumer.
"So, if a good broker can offer a deal as good or better than what you can do for yourself then the concept of "opportunity cost" kicks in. What does it cost you to kick tires, squabble and play games at a dealership possibly on a nice day for 5-7 hours sacrificing family time, computer time, medal of honor time, beach time, sex time ... when you can get the broker to do it for you ... and probably get a better deal than what you can on your own."
The key assumption you have made (I am not saying it is valid or not since I never used a broker) is that you need to be offered a good deal or better deal than the price you had in mind when walking into a broker's office. Again this is the key assumption to make your argument hold and gets back to my point above. I have in mind 20000 for a car and if the broker can only do 20500 then I am getting a bad deal if my oppurtunity cost is less than 500 dollars. This is again linked to who needs the broker services more the consumer or the dealer. The dealer will never absorb all of the fees of the broker unless he is fully dependent on these brokers and we know this is not true.
hoo~ since many complained the traditional negotiation is the best.. I wrote another tutorial. That's what I learned from "carbuyingtips.com" and personal experience.
You see, i'm not assuming. I know this to be true believe it or not. I'm not writing suppositions. I'm merely reporting how the brokerage business works from my experience and what my friend's husband, the financing manager for a local Toyota dealership, has told me during family bbq discussions. Besides, it's much simpler than what you've diagrammed. We don't have to suppose what the fee is or whether it's divided or not. That's not important. It's the bottom line price that the broker offers after going through the rounds with the local dealers that carry your model of choice. That's it. It's doesn't matter if the "fee" gets added to the price of the car you see because all you need to know is what the broker quote is ... and whether you think it's good enough for you to consider signing the deal. There's no need to get into elasticity of the demand and supply curve and all that econ jibber jabber that I took in university because it's not about that.
It's about the difference between deal making between brokers and dealers versus a person walking in from the street and from someone emailing various dealerships mimicking a quasi-broker and dealer relationship. Of each three ways you will get a "best price" that you can get relative to the amount of work you do and the local car business climate.
I'm sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me. I'm missing something here. Your point seems very cyclical and not focusing on the important point that: you should know what your car cost the dealer (ballpark) versus what they are asking for (msrp). This information is everywhere on the 'Net whether for free or for a very small fee to access the real good stuff.
There are no assumptions because when you shop for anything being a car you should know information about your prospective purchase. With readily accessible information you drastically improves your bargaining position. In general, you find out the cost factor of said vehicle, less dealer holdback, less manufacturer to dealer incentives, cost factor of any options, take a small percentage of dealer prep, most of the pdi and then you get your total. Stick closest to that and you will get a great deal. The point of all this is that you can use a broker to see if you will get a price in the same ballpark without having to go through all the hassle (unless you enjoy that sort of thing) and that's where the concept of opportunity cost comes in. IF the price offered by the broker is ballpark with your price negotiated at the dealership then opportunity cost dictates that everything else being equal you would save yourself alot of time and effort by going through the broker rather than doing it yourself.
20,000 and 20,500 and opportunity cost is not what i'm getting at here. If you truly worked out the numbers and find out that your target price is 20,000 and your broker can only give the best price of 20,500 then you take it for what it is: 20,500. Know what I mean. What's important here is whether the realistic rock bottom selling price for that vehicle is 20,500 or higher. Let's say that the vehicle you are looking for at 20,000 you can only get for 21,000 from a dealership ... now, the broker is looking pretty good huh?
If the broker offers 20,500 and you put that on hold and you go to the dealership and can get 20,300 for the same exact car ... then take the dealership offer!
It's not about whether the dealer will absorb fees blah, blah, blah ... it's about whether the dealer will go for a lower offer through a broker and possibly make less money on the transaction IN LIEU of benefits on the flipside that I talked about. Again, the broker represents an alternative venue to moving product and in the grand scheme of things some brokers that do huge business offer the dealer an incentive to do business from a volume standpoint which benefits him/her because they get "paid" by the manufacturer in volume discounts and incentives which compensate for less profit on the individual consumer end. Whew! Do you follow me.
Think of the macro incentives rather the micro (individuals).
Now, if dealers had no use for brokers then they wouldn't exist. Dealers depend on both individual customers AND brokers as well as other methods of moving product that are beyond the scope of this post.
This is getting a bit convoluted. We shouldn't worry so much about the specific machinations of brokerage. We just need to know that a good busy broker can and usually does offer a very competitive price and when you compare that price to regular shopping you can kill two birds with one stone and save you lots of time, money and hassle. But don't take my word for it as i'm just some internet hack ... check it out for yourself and see if it's worth it to you if you are looking for a car.
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The key assumption you have made (I am not saying it is valid or not since I never used a broker) is that you need to be offered a good deal or better deal than the price you had in mind when walking into a broker's office. Again this is the key assumption to make your argument hold and gets back to my point above.
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I'm sorry, this doesn't make any sense to me. I'm missing something here. Your point seems very cyclical and not focusing on the important point that: you should know what your car cost the dealer (ballpark) versus what they are asking for (msrp). This information is everywhere on the 'Net whether for free or for a very small fee to access the real good stuff.
Again you are not understanding me. Where did I say MSRP or the cost of the car? All I said is that it is not always true that a broker will get you the best deal. If this is true all people will use brokers. You can say well some people are stupid and they don't know or other type of argument, but think about it. Say you use a broker and you looked on the internet and found the "best" price and the broker beat it by XXX. Wouldn't you tell your friend? would that friend tell his friend? wouldn't this spread until even Sportscenter or 60 minutes say "Best way to buy a car goto a broker!!!" This would lead to all people buying a car from a broker.
It's not about whether the dealer will absorb fees blah, blah, blah ... it's about whether the dealer will go for a lower offer through a broker and possibly make less money on the transaction IN LIEU of benefits on the flipside that I talked about. Again, the broker represents an alternative venue to moving product and in the grand scheme of things some brokers that do huge business offer the dealer an incentive to do business from a volume standpoint which benefits him/her because they get "paid" by the manufacturer in volume discounts and incentives which compensate for less profit on the individual consumer end. Whew! Do you follow me.
So you say Big profitable brokers will offer money to dealers to do business so the dealer will get money from manufactuers?
Now, if dealers had no use for brokers then they wouldn't exist. Dealers depend on both individual customers AND brokers as well as other methods of moving product that are beyond the scope of this post.
READ my reply no? where did I ever say dealers had no use for brokers? I said dealers will not absorb all the broker fee unless they are fully dependent. This has nothing to do with dealers had no use for brokers. You a LAWYER twisitng words like that is a no no.
This is getting a bit convoluted. We shouldn't worry so much about the specific machinations of brokerage. We just need to know that a good busy broker can and usually does offer a very competitive price and when you compare that price to regular shopping you can kill two birds with one stone and save you lots of time, money and hassle. But don't take my word for it as i'm just some internet hack ... check it out for yourself and see if it's worth it to you if you are looking for a car.
Again I never said you were some internet hack nor did I ever say never use brokers. All I said is that brokers do not always get you the best price. I do agree with what you say about saving time and hassle which intern saves you money in terms of oppurtunity cost. All I am saying is that if you don't mind the hassle or the time it takes to buy a car do it yourself and you will save money. If the broker's price is 100 dollars above the price you want to pay and you make x dollars per hour and you think it takes y hours to get a car just compare x*y with 100 dollars.
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