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Hot Hardware questions the authenticity of Tom's 3.3/3.6GHz P4 article

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One more post to help apoppin understand the seriousness of this. 🙂

Photographs that lie


....And so the question becomes: Where do you draw the line?


It's a question that's always been at the heart of news photography. Pictures have been staged since the 1850s; retouching photos by hand was once commonplace in many newsrooms; and photographers can change the composition of a print in the darkroom. Over the years, ethical standards have tightened. Today, retouching a news photo is forbidden at most newspapers, and faking a photograph is grounds for dismissal.


But ethical standards may have slipped in one key area: making sure the reader recognizes the difference between real and artifical photos.


The distinction is critical. People expect certain kinds of photos to represent reality. In the trade, these pictures are called documentary photos because they strive to portray real events and real people in true-to-life settings. You'll find them every day in the news pages.


But there are other kinds of pictures, far fewer in number, that do not aim to depict reality. These conceptual photos, or "photo illustrations,'' are created often in the studio, and now in computers with the purpose of symbolizing a concept or evoking a mood.


Conceptual photos, such as an art-directed studio shot of a ballet dancer or fashion model or truffle, are more akin to a painting than to the gritty, hard-edged realism of photojournalism. And because the shot was artificially set up in the first place, it's OK to fine-tune the image to give it more impact.


That's the conventional wisdom, at any rate.....




By any standard in journalism, he should have either dinstinctly made sure that it was clear the photo was not real, and labeled it as such. Obviously, those as smart as apoppin need not worry about this as they can tell real vs. fake right away.
 
"But there's a danger there. When a photograph becomes synthesis, fantasy, rather than reportage, then the whole purpose of the photograph dies. A photographer is a reporter ? a photon thief, if you will. He goes and takes, with a delicate instrument, an extremely thin slice of life. When we changed that slice of life, no matter in what small way, we diluted our credibility. If images are altered to suit the editorial purposes of anyone, if soda cans or clutter or blacks or people of ethnic backgrounds are taken out, suddenly you've got a world that's not only unreal but surreal.


And THAT, my friends, is why Tom's "photo" bothers me as a photojournalist.

OK, im truly done here. 😛
 
OK, the ONE valid reason was Tom's article was trying to paint a "future picture

In the future there will be a 3.3GHz part with all of the serial numbers from the 2.0GHz Northwood? Glad to hear that Tom is sharing that with us.

In the Graphs there are 3 categories: NEW, INTEL, OVERCLOCKED. The 3.06, 3.3, 3.6 parts are all listed as NEW, not OVERCLOCKED.
 
I agree 100% with Lucky, and will also no longer post in this thread; so feel free to flame me some more.
 
i guess tom was just trying to let insights to future chips performance...like for example 3.06 - 3.66GHz...obviously he stated that he got an ES chip which can do 27x multiplier which might be reasonable since intel just released the 25x and 26x ones...but only at 400MHz freq., there is a long road ahead but not really since the 3.06 should be coming in the next month or so...
 
Hmmmm, quite interesting. I honestly dunno, we all know how hot the Williamette is compared to the Northwood, how could the .18 micron Williamette hit 3.6GHz speeds, speeds that I think even the .13 micron Northwood could have trouble reaching..

Something is certainly ammiss, is Hot Hardware right? I dunno. I think it is something else.

I will point out that this isn't like Tom has falsified Benchmarks of this CPU, have they been not clear and possibly dishonest with the source of the CPU and whether it is overclocked or not? Yes. But, they hve benchmarked a 3.6Ghz Northwood, and while it is likely we will never see a 3.6 Northwood, there is nothing deceptive about benchmarking it I feel. We shall see what happens.
 
Originally posted by: Lucky
"But there's a danger there. When a photograph becomes synthesis, fantasy, rather than reportage, then the whole purpose of the photograph dies. A photographer is a reporter ? a photon thief, if you will. He goes and takes, with a delicate instrument, an extremely thin slice of life. When we changed that slice of life, no matter in what small way, we diluted our credibility. If images are altered to suit the editorial purposes of anyone, if soda cans or clutter or blacks or people of ethnic backgrounds are taken out, suddenly you've got a world that's not only unreal but surreal.


And THAT, my friends, is why Tom's "photo" bothers me as a photojournalist.

OK, im truly done here. 😛


Miss you. 😛

😀

You still just don't (absolutely & positively) don't get it.
rolleye.gif
Everything - the entire article - is supposed to be taken in CONTEXT. Article photos are intended to accompany and support the article while giving a coherent "feel" to the whole.

You have taken one tiny aspect of the article - a single photo - and because it wasn't captioned properly - say the entire article - NO, the entire THG site is fake. You guys are extreme haters.

Perhaps Tom should have indicated in the caption that this photo was a "representation" of a future CPU (reading the article bears this out). In my mind it does not effect the benchmarks or that his article was generally representative of an Intel flagship CPU 10 months from now.
 
You still just don't (absolutely & positively) don't get it. Everything - the entire article - is supposed to be taken in CONTEXT. Article photos are intended to accompany and support the article while giving a coherent "feel" to the whole.

You have taken one tiny aspect of the article - a single photo - and because it wasn't captioned properly - say the entire article - NO, the entire THG site is fake. You guys are extreme haters.

Perhaps Tom should have indicated in the caption that this photo was a "representation" of a future CPU (reading the article bears this out). In my mind it does not effect the benchmarks or that his article was generally representative of an Intel flagship CPU 10 months from now.
Well exactly. It's interesting to see how high northwood is currently scaling. For me, the most interesting part of the article is the inclusion of the 2666/166/166 athlon. Its a little insight into how the processor market may develop over the next 6 months. It seems ludicrous to extrapolate from a single photo (or indeed lack of caption thereon) that THG is nothing but a hits-grabbing hack. I don't see how this affects the integrity of the benchmarks.
 
The word "overclock" isn't mentioned once in THG's article (before today's update).

If I understand what some of the people in this thread are saying, THG's readers were supposed to know the 3.3GHz and 3.6GHz processors tested in the article were overclocked 2.0 P4's, even though the word "overclock" wasn't mentioned a single time in the article before today's update? Uh, what?
 
Maybe the next time Tom wants to show how quick a chip overheats when the heatsink fan fails he can borrow some fireworks and gasoline from the NBC News department to jazz up the video. Journalistic license. Rubbish.

Then again maybe I should go find and rewatch the last one...

--Mc
 
apoppin, I have a simple question for you. If CNN ran a story called "Exclusive: Global Threat - Iraq with nuclear weapons" with a photoshopped picuture of Saddam Hussein standing next to a nuclear warhead (not just superimposed, but blended in so you could mistake it for a real picture) and then the rest of the article proceeding to talk about Saddam's soon to be realized weapons of mass destruction and their threat, would you accept that as legitimate journalism? Its just 'illustrating a point' isn't it?

EDIT: Changed for clarity.
 
Originally posted by: aswedc
apoppin, I have a simple question for you. If CNN ran a story called "Exclusive: Global Threat - Iraq with nuclear weapons" with a photoshopped picuture of Saddam Hussein standing next to a nuclear warhead and then the rest of the article proceeding to talk about Saddam's soon to be realized weapons of mass destruction and their threat, would you accept that as legitimate journalism? Its just 'illustrating a point' isn't it?

Actually, news organizations do that all the time when they're trying to make a point. It's common practice.
 
Actually, news organizations do that all the time when they're trying to make a point. It's common practice.

Really? Thats news to me. Any news organizations that have a policy of not doing this so I can avoid those that do at all times?
 
Originally posted by: aswedc
Actually, news organizations do that all the time when they're trying to make a point. It's common practice.

Really? Thats news to me. Any news organizations that have a policy of not doing this so I can avoid those that do at all times?

You mean to tell me that you've never seen a picture of Bush superimposed over a picture of a forrest when he authorized tearing down trees or pictures of Gore staring at Bush with a Florida ballot complete with hanging chads added to the picture?

I mean, it's something that I see on a frequent basis from news organizations
 
You mean to tell me that you've never seen a picture of Bush superimposed over a picture of a forrest when he authorized tearing down trees or pictures of Gore staring at Bush with a Florida ballot complete with hanging chads added to the picture?

I mean, it's something that I see on a frequent basis from news organizations

Of course I have but in those types of pictures its obvious that Bush is not actually in the forest, they are not meant to make you think he was in the forest. Those are just fancy graphics. I'm talking about a picure that is faked to fool someone into thinking it is a legitimate original picture, such as Tom's photoshop job on the 3.3ghz P4. If that was not his intention, he would not have maken the effort to make it so realistic, just like I've never seen a news photo that could be mistaken for the President actually in a forest when he was not.
 
Originally posted by: aswedc
You mean to tell me that you've never seen a picture of Bush superimposed over a picture of a forrest when he authorized tearing down trees or pictures of Gore staring at Bush with a Florida ballot complete with hanging chads added to the picture?

I mean, it's something that I see on a frequent basis from news organizations

Of course I have but in those types of pictures its obvious that Bush is not actually in the forest, they are not meant to make you think he was in the forest. Those are just fancy graphics. I'm talking about a picure that is faked to fool someone into thinking it is a legitimate original picture, such as Tom's photoshop job on the 3.3ghz P4. If that was not his intention, he would not have maken the effort to make it so realistic, just like I've never seen a news photo that could be mistaken for the President actually in a forest when he was not.

Well, well, they did it in Forrest Gump 😀

j/k 😛😀

 
Originally posted by: aswedc
You mean to tell me that you've never seen a picture of Bush superimposed over a picture of a forrest when he authorized tearing down trees or pictures of Gore staring at Bush with a Florida ballot complete with hanging chads added to the picture?

I mean, it's something that I see on a frequent basis from news organizations

Of course I have but in those types of pictures its obvious that Bush is not actually in the forest, they are not meant to make you think he was in the forest. Those are just fancy graphics. I'm talking about a picure that is faked to fool someone into thinking it is a legitimate original picture, such as Tom's photoshop job on the 3.3ghz P4. If that was not his intention, he would not have maken the effort to make it so realistic, just like I've never seen a news photo that could be mistaken for the President actually in a forest when he was not.


So now were talking "obvious" and degrees of "obvious". It was pretty damn obvious from READING Tom's article what his point and intentions were.

So now you answer MY question - what did THG have to gain from your "faked picture" theory?
 
Originally posted by: NFS4
Originally posted by: aswedc
Actually, news organizations do that all the time when they're trying to make a point. It's common practice.

Really? Thats news to me. Any news organizations that have a policy of not doing this so I can avoid those that do at all times?

You mean to tell me that you've never seen a picture of Bush superimposed over a picture of a forrest when he authorized tearing down trees or pictures of Gore staring at Bush with a Florida ballot complete with hanging chads added to the picture?

I mean, it's something that I see on a frequent basis from news organizations



butting in for a minute, read my posts above that I quoted from the linked website. The kind of pictures you mention are easily and immediately discernable as illustrations. When that is the case-it is ethically OK. Additionally in print or online you would be required to label it as a photo illustration if there would be any doubt as to its degree of authenticity.

In any case, the types of pictures you talk about are clearly different than this case.
 
How can he benchmark this and call it a 3.6Ghz P4 when everyone knows that starting at 3.06, the hyperthreading will be enabled? The real 3.6Ghz P4 will have considerably better numbers.
 
So now you answer MY question - what did THG have to gain from your "faked picture" theory?

Hits. Lots of hits and publicity. Ok now before you ask me any more questions answer my original one! 😀 Would it be acceptable journalism for CNN to do something as described?

Quote Lucky
OK, im truly done here.

Or maybe not? 😉 J/k help convincing apoppin appreciated 🙂
 
Originally posted by: Lucky
In any case, the types of pictures you talk about are clearly different than this case.


I thought you left. 😛

From the OT Thread:
Originally posted by: tcsenter
Are these other hardware groups jealous that Tom always gets first crack at all the cool engineering samples or something?

The picture is suspect. Hell I think that it looks so fake, invalid ID markings and all, I'm having trouble believing that anyone would try to pass this thing off as "authentic" to the hardware enthusiast community. They HAD to know there would be at least a few dozen frequent THG followers out there who would spot something wrong with that picture.

I'm not sure if the foul rests with THG, or the idiots who failed to consider the possibility that THG may never intended for the picture be taken as "authentic" in the first place. A little caveat under the photo or a better 'give-away' would have been a good idea, but that may have been little more than an oversight in judgement, not the result of a deceptive or fraudulent motive.
 
Quit arguing with me. :| 😛


I think that it looks so fake, invalid ID markings and all, I'm having trouble believing that anyone would try to pass this thing off as "authentic"

Well, I guess we must have two members of MENSA here at anandtech. What a suprise!
rolleye.gif
😀
 
Originally posted by: apoppin
Originally posted by: aswedc
You mean to tell me that you've never seen a picture of Bush superimposed over a picture of a forrest when he authorized tearing down trees or pictures of Gore staring at Bush with a Florida ballot complete with hanging chads added to the picture?

I mean, it's something that I see on a frequent basis from news organizations

Of course I have but in those types of pictures its obvious that Bush is not actually in the forest, they are not meant to make you think he was in the forest. Those are just fancy graphics. I'm talking about a picure that is faked to fool someone into thinking it is a legitimate original picture, such as Tom's photoshop job on the 3.3ghz P4. If that was not his intention, he would not have maken the effort to make it so realistic, just like I've never seen a news photo that could be mistaken for the President actually in a forest when he was not.


So now were talking "obvious" and degrees of "obvious". It was pretty damn obvious from READING Tom's article what his point and intentions were.

So now you answer MY question - what did THG have to gain from your "faked picture" theory?

I'm no THG fan, but I'm no THG hater, either. I READ Tom's article and I got the distinct impression that he was making the claim that he had in his possestion a P4 3.6GHz Northwood CPU (not an overclocked ES chip). NOWHERE in his article did he mention the words "overclocked" or "engineering sample", in fact, he even went on about how THG is known for getting actual chips far before anybody else. Then he shows this picture of a "P4 3.3GHz" CPU (yes, I know he never specifically claimed that it was the chip he was benchmarking) what's the point of showing photoshopped picture of what a "P4 3.3GHz CPU would look like"? I've seen hundreds of pictures of CPUs, as have I'm sure, all of you. I sure as hell don't need to see a photoshopped pic of a CPU just so I'll know what its gonna look like (and an innaccurate one at that). Then he labels the 3.06, 3.3, and 3.6GHz chips as "new" instead of overclocked. All of this leads to a misleading representation of what's actually going on. Do I think that all of THG is fake? No. Do I think that Tom is a hit-grabbing hack? No. Do I hate his site? No. Do I think that one article on his site was misleading? Yes.
 
I am just surprised you were misled. From the article:
It's become standard for THG to take forthcoming processors at an early stage and test them for performance and compatibility at the Munich laboratory. Already in February of this year we were able to present the P4/2666, P4/2533 and P4/2400 in Behind The Silicon Curtain: Exclusive Test Of The P4/2666 With 533 MHz Rambus - at the time, the most that was available was the P4/2200.

So he sets the stage for a comparison - equal to what he has done in the past (i.e. extrapolate future performance by O/C'ing current CPUs).


Compared to the current top model with 2.8 GHz, there are virtually no differences; only the core speed has been raised by 29%. The Front Side Bus continues to operate at 133 MHz, the multiplier is 27
Sure sounds like an unlocked Engineering Sample to me - how else can you raise the Core speed without raising the FSB (which would surely be an unfair comparison as stock Intel P4s in 10 months will still have 133FSB)?


Then he restates his purpose to the article:
At this point, here is an important announcements on the future top model P4/3600: there isa 29% increase in clock speed over the current top model with 2.8 GHz. The primary concern was how the increase in speed was reflected in the performance values. The result we got was that in all benchmarks, the CPU landed in first place by a long shot. The increase over the P4/2800 is between 7% and 29%, depending on the application.

I just can't believe that a picture taken out of the context of the article is causing so much confusion.
 
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