I'm aware of that. I was just making the comment that while Denon is free to choose who is and is not an authorized dealer, it would be pretty crappy of them not to honor a warranty from a recently removed authorized source. Most of the Denon CSRs would probably tell you on the phone that 6 ave is still authorized. That's why I suggested calling and getting info on the person you talk to so any warranty denials could be quickly disputed.
ICXRa
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I'm betting this will only last a little while, I placed my order over the phone anyway and never even used the web. It just goes to show you if they weren't overcharging for these in the first place how many more they would sell. Oh well I got mine yesterday, time to go plug it up!
If you check in the avsforum, you'll find that 6ave was turned in by a B&M store saleman who complained to Denon several times until he got the deal shut down:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=346306&perpage=20&highlight=denon%20AND%20ave%20AND%20store&pagenumber=9
Originally posted by: John
I saw the same post, and read EVERY single page through it. It was interesting to see the story unfold... Needless to say, that guy ruined it for alot of people. I understand his theory behind the 'snitching' - but it wasn't necessary.
Oh well - I got mine!
It would have taken 5 seconds to just say yes or no, instead of anyone having to read several pages of that thread. I read the last few and I'm not even sure if it says the deal is dead anyway. I ended up calling them myself (I had reasons for not just calling them earlier).
No more sale.
Anyone wanna sell theirs?
ICXRa
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Well I have been playing around with this for a little more than a week. I must say I am disappointed in the stereo performance of this unit and cannot currently commit on the home theater performance yet as my Rockets have not arrived. I expect to be equally disappointed though. It is not at all loud and seems very underpowered! I can hardly even hear it until it hits -28 db and at -1 db it doesn't even compare to my Luxman at -16 db. Granted the Luxman is a Intergrated Amp and has slightly more power but there should not be this much difference. I have been convinced I had something set incorrectly but I have checked and rechecked the setup and see nothing wrong. :|
Hayabusa Rider
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ICXRa
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haha
That's always an option but hopefully it will do fine at HT once the sub is hooked up. I can always add an external amp to it. I must admit that I was unaware the main goes up to +18 which I just discovered on a HT forum. Still much to learn so I should have not been so quick to post my previous feelings. I'm just thankful for the Hot Deals forum to save me from paying retail for this!
That's always an option but hopefully it will do fine at HT once the sub is hooked up. I can always add an external amp to it. I must admit that I was unaware the main goes up to +18 which I just discovered on a HT forum. Still much to learn so I should have not been so quick to post my previous feelings. I'm just thankful for the Hot Deals forum to save me from paying retail for this!
Originally posted by: Slickone
It would have taken 5 seconds to just say yes or no, instead of anyone having to read several pages of that thread. I read the last few and I'm not even sure if it says the deal is dead anyway. I ended up calling them myself (I had reasons for not just calling them earlier).
No more sale.
Slickone, if you would have taken 5 seconds to read exactly what I posted you would have seen that I made it clear the deal was dead.
ICXRa, did you take time to calibrate the 3803 and adjust your speaker levels? I have no problem hitting Dolby reference levels (105dB) and SACD performance is top notch thru the analog connections. I upgraded from a 3802 (only cost me $50.00 to upgrade) and the sound quality difference is noticable to my ears. Check my sig for a URL to my home theater, or google John's Home Theater which is the first result.
You spend a week with the unit and you don't know the maximum volume level. You then proceed to comment on the "loudness" of the unit without this information. Also, have you calibrated it? I believe that your maximum number will change once you calibrate it. The maximum number that your receiver will go up to is based on your main speakers calibration (if I remember correctly), because mine only goes to +11. If this is correct, that could be a difference of 6-7 decibles or a perceived 4 times the power needed to achieve the same loudness at the same number.
I'm sorry you felt dissapointed when you got it, but it is fairly accurately represented in it's amplification claims. H/K tends to be a bit understated. I noticed the volume numbers were handled a bit differently than either my Yamaha or Onkyo in the sense that I couldn't turn either of those up past half way. With the Denon, I can go almost the entire way. This isn't a flaw, it is a design. I happen to prefer it. I don't have to worry about the mrs. turning up the volume too loud and ruining my $5k speakers, just because she was using the wrong input and swtiches to the correct input with the volume maxed. With either the Yammy or Onkyo, there would be severe clipping after half way, so the last half of the volume is only there for your ego to fool the uninformed. It was never used and only served as a frightening ability to blow speakers.
I still remember my cousin showing off his dad's receiver when we were young children. He wouldn't dare turn it past "11 O'clock" for fear of damaging the speakers, but he claimed there was more than half the power of the receiver left. That was BS then, and it's still BS. Along with John, I have no difficulty reaching reference levels. My room is about 17.5 x 21.5. I typically will listen at -25 to -20 for average TV. For "movie theater" levels -15 to -10 suffices. I typically won't have it at "movie theater" levels with guests unless they want the full effect. For two channel music I have it around 0.
I posted earlier about the amps' stereo ability driving Paradigm Studio 100s. The Amp section in the 3803 isn't intended to be top notch for stereo (IMO), and I stated earlier that I would love to add an external amp to remove those duties from this receiver. In fact, I think an external amp would be benefical for all amplification duties if you have a nice speaker system (like your rockets) taht could benefit from one. Your Rockets will be easier to drive than my Studio setup, and I can't imagine 99% of the population NOT being blown away from what this receiver and a 5.1 setup of Rockets can do.
With that said, you are the one that needs to be satisfied. This AVR's claim to fame is its total ability for home theater and switching/upconverting signals. It also does a great job of handling all kinds of inputs and remembering the settings for each. This AVR isn't the best available in terms of two-channel performace. If you want that, I would suggest looking into the H/K or (even better) a more dedicated two-channel setup. H/K tends to be a bit warmer, and that lends itself to a smoother 2 channel experience. I would say the 3803 is better than any other receiver I have had (yamaha, onkyo, marantz) in processing 2 channel music. But, it is bright and detailed (especially with Paradigm Studios). That turns some off and some on. I happen to like it, but I would like more amplification. In 5.1 formats, it knocks the socks off anything I've ever had, and I can't imagine anything being significantly better without going to seperates.
Have you calibrated the output of each speaker with a SPL Meter? Otherwise it could be calibrated to output less volume per channel than your other amp at equivalent dbs.
Mike
Well.... I got my 3803 setup and running. I already have my Avia disc in transit - I should get it by tomorrow most likely. I also stopped by the local RadioShack and saw thier SPL meter. In case you dont already know, the analog version was discontinued (to be replaced soon by another analog version). I am still deciding whether I should wait for the new version, or if I should bite the bullet and grab the current digital version.
I can say that this amp teamed up with my Klipsch fronts, center and subs is just amazing. I have some NHT bookshelf speakers (not sure how great they are considered) for the surround rears and the sound is just remarkable. It really sounds better than the local theaters here in the valley. DTS and DD is just amazing...
This amp is one the best purchases I have ever made. The whole family loves watching movies now... Amazing.
I can say that this amp teamed up with my Klipsch fronts, center and subs is just amazing. I have some NHT bookshelf speakers (not sure how great they are considered) for the surround rears and the sound is just remarkable. It really sounds better than the local theaters here in the valley. DTS and DD is just amazing...
This amp is one the best purchases I have ever made. The whole family loves watching movies now... Amazing.
NHT and Klipsch are both great speaker companies. I'm nut sure they blend the best in the world, but rear speakers aren't as critical to match with the fronts as making sure your front three are very well matched. I'm glad to hear of your family's excitement. This receiver, or the H/K, powering decent or better speaker systems will put most theaters to shame. My budget Paradigm MK3 speakers along with an Onkyo Dolby PL AVR bested my local theater until a new one went up. I upgraded to a Yamaha DD receiver and jumped out in front of the new theater in terms of sound quality. I haven't been to a theater I would rather hear over my Paradigm studios powered by the 3803. I would just love to get a 100" projection setup and start charging admission.
ICXRa
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To quote myself:
I will be the first one to admit that I am new to multichannel amplification and my lack of experience is showing. I have received a great deal of help since I posted my first comments. I was getting frustrated at that time and should have not posted my negative feelings that were brought about by my lack of knowledge. I have not calibrated my speakers with my SPL meter as of yet. I only have two mains and basically using the 3803 to listen to CD's while I wait for my new speakers. Perhaps incorrectly so but I thought calibration came more into play with all the speakers in a 5.1 setup and less so with just stereo via two speaker listening. My old two channel amp topped out at 00 db and I would never push my speakers to this level since I would rather not blow them so I had no idea it went into the plus as I wouldn't push it this high. Again my fault....should have read page 49 a little more carefully than I did!
I will be the first one to admit that I am new to multichannel amplification and my lack of experience is showing. I have received a great deal of help since I posted my first comments. I was getting frustrated at that time and should have not posted my negative feelings that were brought about by my lack of knowledge. I have not calibrated my speakers with my SPL meter as of yet. I only have two mains and basically using the 3803 to listen to CD's while I wait for my new speakers. Perhaps incorrectly so but I thought calibration came more into play with all the speakers in a 5.1 setup and less so with just stereo via two speaker listening. My old two channel amp topped out at 00 db and I would never push my speakers to this level since I would rather not blow them so I had no idea it went into the plus as I wouldn't push it this high. Again my fault....should have read page 49 a little more carefully than I did!
I would say that Adcom still makes a great amp and NAD makes some great 2 channel stuff. Niether put out a product in direct competition of the 3803 like H/K, Onkyo, Yamaha, and Sony (forgive me if I left out a couple) that I'm aware.
An SPL Meter is a Sound Pressure Level meter. It is used to measure the db level output of an audio source like a speaker. You can use it to calibrate the speakers in a surround sound system to the same output levels at the reference listening position.
Mike
Mike
Interesting posts with regards to HT. I have a 3802 hooked-up in a room, which is driving a set of Rocket HT set-up. The amp I am using is the Classe CAV-150.
For sure, the 3803 would not driven my Maggies or Eminent Technology speakers well. However, the 3802 has driven a set of B&W 805s, Thiel, and several others in that room. I am partial to the Classe amp, as well as a Muse amp, but the 3803 would drive many of todays efficient speakers.
There are a few websites where you can pick-up good quality new/used gear.
www.audiogon.com is a decent place that one might find "deals"*
*deals, are in the end somewhat subjectively defined by the individual
For sure, the 3803 would not driven my Maggies or Eminent Technology speakers well. However, the 3802 has driven a set of B&W 805s, Thiel, and several others in that room. I am partial to the Classe amp, as well as a Muse amp, but the 3803 would drive many of todays efficient speakers.
There are a few websites where you can pick-up good quality new/used gear.
www.audiogon.com is a decent place that one might find "deals"*
*deals, are in the end somewhat subjectively defined by the individual
Originally posted by: JameyF
NHT and Klipsch are both great speaker companies. I'm nut sure they blend the best in the world, but rear speakers aren't as critical to match with the fronts as making sure your front three are very well matched. I'm glad to hear of your family's excitement. This receiver, or the H/K, powering decent or better speaker systems will put most theaters to shame. My budget Paradigm MK3 speakers along with an Onkyo Dolby PL AVR bested my local theater until a new one went up. I upgraded to a Yamaha DD receiver and jumped out in front of the new theater in terms of sound quality. I haven't been to a theater I would rather hear over my Paradigm studios powered by the 3803. I would just love to get a 100" projection setup and start charging admission.
Yeah - the amp is great, it just seems to get better and better. AND I just got my new Avia disc - so now I'm off to RS for the SPL meter. I cant wait to get it setup and calibrated properly.
We just moved in to a 'new' house and we have the perfect room for a nice setup now. We already had the matched Klipsch for the fronts, and the previous owner left us 3 new pairs of NHT speakers already mounted and wired (he was an audio geek too, so he had a pair in each main room downstairs).
I can say though, that they sound pretty good together... Those NHT's really surprised me...
Oh yeah - What have you guys been "watching" through the new Denon? I can't get over how good the special edition Lion King DVD sounds... It's got an amazing DD 5.1 Home Theater Audio Mix on it (besides the usual DTS/THX etc)... Simply remarkable how good that movie sounds in that mode. It's the best I have heard recently.
Any other suggestions? Whats the best sounding DVD to turn this thing up with?
Any other suggestions? Whats the best sounding DVD to turn this thing up with?
I might have one...I bought a RatShack "decibel meter" a few months ago to compare the power of two receivers.
I love the Lord of the Rings movies through mine. I would also suggest U571 if you have a great sub or Drumline for tight/rapid bass. Pearl Harbor, Contact, Twister, Matrix, Gladiator, and Armageddon are some great movies to hear with a good system. There are other movies that have better video, but those movies sound great to me. There are many more so pick your favortie action titles, they should sound very nice. There are only a few big budget movies that the sound is done poorly/incorrectly. I think Jurassic Park DTS has a flaw on the first edition released and some say the DD version of Fellowship of the rings sounds better than the DTS version. The 3803 with decent or better speakers should make any movie sound better than almost any theater.
I really like the Denon 3803. I am wondering if I am the only Denon 3803 owner that has been unable to program the Call feature of the remote?
Any help out there would be appreciated.
Any help out there would be appreciated.
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