Hostility in the GPU Space?

[boozzer]

making sure there are enough products to sell to both miners and gamers is on AMD. that is easy money they are not making.

 

[Qwertilot]

Don't delude yourself, that mindset was in politics from the begining of time. You're seeing more divisiveness because there are more media sources available. Sources that are contradicting long held views promoted by long trusted outlets. When you've got only a few news stations/websites etc. those media outlets are going to control the narrative. Why are websites closing down comments or going to facebook only comments? This applies to politics or tech news.

I don't argue that this sort of mind set hasn't always been there, but it has clearly got much easier to organise a set of people along those lines recently. Very vivid in American politics just now, also the UK mind.

The striking thing isn't so much the existence of groups with different views (which have every right to exist), its how utterly closed off the mind sets of many of the people involved seem to end up. Just like a fair few of the video card people here

 

[USER8000]

Exactly. Always annoys me when posters use "you use power for x,y,z" to justify inefficient cpus or gpus.

It shows you the problem with enthusiasts like you where you make excuses for the example I made. So it seems you are moaning about GPU power consumption while at the same time being fine with that person keeping their system on 24/7 while not using it.

So you are more worried about more power under load ,for a few hours a week,than the 8760 hours have a rig being on which will consuming more power and costing more money,just because of laziness.

Somebody with a pair of GTX980TI cards and an overclocked Core i7 would probably use less energy if they only had the desktop on for 10 hours a week gaming than somebody who has a rig with a GTX1060 on 24/7 because they are lazy.

Somebody with a car that does 20MPG,and only drives 2000 miles a year,will still use less fuel than some with a 60MPG card who drives 12000 miles a year.

So they use more power just having the system on whilst anyway,since they would rather not change usage habits which actually will have more impact.

This is the issue - this is what is called a "
champagne socialist"

1. a person who espouses socialist ideals while enjoying a wealthy and luxurious lifestyle.

You are so obssessed with power consumption of one little part of a rig, yet what is the bet you have no clue about whether any other part is at peak effiency??

Do you even know how much power your monitor consumes - please don't tell me you still use a CCFL model...

Or any other electrical component you use??

Have you changed all your light bulbs to LEDs??

Wear an extra jumper when its cold instead of switching the heating on??

Or just opened the windows in the house instead of air conditioning or fans??

Many on this forum are quite happy to have bought high end cards like GTX480,GTX580 or even GTX460 cards which consumed more power than the ATI equivalents of the day and now sing a different tune because E-PEEN.

Its even more of a joke when you are all about saving power yet use desktops - why not get a nice efficient laptop or console??

The new XBox One S consumes like 70W to 80W under load at the wall for the whole system.
An HD7770 consumes like 60W to 70W just at the PCI-E power connectors.

Even a card like an HD7770 consumes more power than a whole laptop,and my GTX960 even more(and so was my GTX660TI). I went on price at the time of purchase - if the AMD cards had been better value I would have got those instead.

Maybe I should have got a GTX750TI instead,dropped some settings and saved 40W to 50W for the system at least.

In the UK electricity is much more expensive than the US,and even then its hardly any difference in cost for all these power obsessed gamers using the least efficient PC type for gaming.

What for your 168 hours a week gaming?

In fact I don't know any gamer in the real world who cares about saving those watts,and their main worry for a graphics card is whether their PSU can handle the card.

Its why the GTX460 sold like hotcakes despite consuming more power than an HD6850:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4002/amd-radeon-hd-6850-overclocking-roundup-asus-xfx-msi/7

35W at the wall,and most GTX460 cards were overclocked too. A maxed out HD6850 consumed less than a reference GTX460.

Plus the most efficient PC is one which is switched off - if you are using your PC for web browsing and not some tablet which consumes 2W to 3W,you are a hypocrit.

A lot of the posters making a big deal about card power consumption for gaming,and normal scenarios,don't really care that much IMHO,especially if you look at their posting history.

Considering that I have done my fair share of smaller computers over the last decade,it makes me cringe with some of the half baked overtures some of you make towards these sorts of things.

 

[frozentundra123456]

There are several advantages to a cpu or gpu that uses less power for the same performance. It will dissipate less heat, run cooler and quieter, allow use of a lower wattage psu, and save a few dollars a year. Those benefits are exactly the same whether one drives a hummer or a prius, or whether he keeps his house at 50 degrees or 75 degrees. So, price and performance being equal, it seems absurd to ignore those benefits, no matter what you do in the rest of your life.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Not sure if you are a miner, but you have to sort of look at it from the perspective of people who have zero interesting in mining.

I mine, but only with GPUs that have a purpose beyond mining (gaming rigs and the like). But I don't have a problem with someone building milk crates.

A product they've been waiting for his finally released and is hit with a shortage supply that is exasperated by miners. I'm not saying miners are bad, but when posters are venting their issues finding a product it isn't helped when miners chime in "I just picked up 8 cards, try harder."

I guess I just don't get that at all. It's not like miners buy the cards off of a special Newegg. It's not like they are given a special advantage over gamers for buying the cards. In fact it's the opposite, as often Newegg or whoever has a limit of one or two cards per customer. That means a miner with 10 cards made five purchases that a gamer also had the opportunity to make.

The rationale I see is "miners buy everything so I can't just casually stroll up to Newegg at my pace and get a card when I want one without playing the nowinstock game." But that denies reality.

Miners don't touch 460s and they are gone. Miners don't touch 1070s (till now) and it's been a nowinstock game from the start. I see no evidence of AMD prices rising due to mining. I do see a lot of pent up demand for new GPUs from gamers, and I think that is mostly to blame.

As a person who was in that situation and got muscled out of buying an AMD card because of price gouging - you sort of leave some of us out in the wind. I've said it before, and I continue to see it - there are some buyers buying Nvidia not out of desire or wish to switch sides - but because the AMD side is dry bone and miners are rubbing salt in the wounds.

The reason to go Nvidia is if you want a card more powerful than a Fury X (of which Nvidia has four). Miners didn't create that situation.

Again, not a dig at miners, but you openly said you created this post because you seem to not understand some of the hostility towards miners. When I wanted to buy a 290X it was >$650 versus the recently price cut GTX 780. Before people start to argue longevity, at the day of purchase the cards were relatively similar. You can't have posters in this thread arguing "the logical choice" yet condemn some NV buyers for not idling sitting by while miners destroyed AMD's price / perf advantage.

When 290X went dirt cheap, I picked up two, but returned them due to power/heat issues. I ended up with one even less than before.

I just don't see that happening today. 480s go for less that 1060s which wouldn't be the case if mining was raising AMD prices.

Honestly I think the hostility hurts gamers, they could learn something from the miners. Thanks to the thread on here my 390x and 480 will pay for themselves. It takes no special skill to mine.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G925A using Tapatalk

 

[whm1974]

Mining is still a big thing? I thought that bubble burst a few years ago.

 

[nurturedhate]

Not sure if you are a miner, but you have to sort of look at it from the perspective of people who have zero interesting in mining. A product they've been waiting for his finally released and is hit with a shortage supply that is exasperated by miners. I'm not saying miners are bad, but when posters are venting their issues finding a product it isn't helped when miners chime in "I just picked up 8 cards, try harder."

And then even in this thread you said:



As a person who was in that situation and got muscled out of buying an AMD card because of price gouging - you sort of leave some of us out in the wind. I've said it before, and I continue to see it - there are some buyers buying Nvidia not out of desire or wish to switch sides - but because the AMD side is dry bone and miners are rubbing salt in the wounds.

Again, not a dig at miners, but you openly said you created this post because you seem to not understand some of the hostility towards miners. When I wanted to buy a 290X it was >$650 versus the recently price cut GTX 780. Before people start to argue longevity, at the day of purchase the cards were relatively similar. You can't have posters in this thread arguing "the logical choice" yet condemn some NV buyers for not idling sitting by while miners destroyed AMD's price / perf advantage.

When 290X went dirt cheap, I picked up two, but returned them due to power/heat issues. I ended up with one even less than before.

Picked up a 780ti in Feb 14 due to the price gouging on 290/x's. Wanted a 290x but there was a $200 price difference at the time.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

Yeah, I was in the same boat. Was going to get a 280X, then the price jumped up by $100 so I had to settle for a 770. It's really not hard to see why someone would be annoyed about miners gobbling up all the stock, since from the outside all cryptocurrencies look like libertarian funbux get rich quick schemes, and that perception isn't helped by the constant scams and hacks like Mt. Gox and now Bitfinex.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Yeah, I was in the same boat. Was going to get a 280X, then the price jumped up by $100 so I had to settle for a 770. It's really not hard to see why someone would be annoyed about miners gobbling up all the stock, since from the outside all cryptocurrencies look like libertarian funbux get rich quick schemes, and that perception isn't helped by the constant scams and hacks like Mt. Gox and now Bitfinex.

Yea, off topic, but I am surprised the governments dont crack down on this. Or maybe they just cant effectively do it. But it is basically generation of tax free money.

 

[mooncancook]

People always have heated debates in forums because ppl always want to convince others that their logic/thinking/opinion are better than others'. You have PC vs console debates going on for years. Then among the console fans they'll debate with each other over Xbox vs PS. On PC side we debate over AMD vs NVidia.

I remember the GPU forum was not as hostile before, but it went downhill when companies like NVidia was paying ppl to comment in GPU forums with extremely bias opinions. I still remember a particular user name here, "Rollo" iirc. Those extremely bias and stubborn discussions helped created a hostile environment in the GPU space that is difficult to recover from.

 

[VirtualLarry]

As for the subject of power consumption, I just turned off my G4400 @ 4.455Ghz rig with 7950 3GB card, because it was too darn warm in the living room. I have A/C in the bedroom, and it's been on all day, but today was 103F with the "heat index" (real temp 93-95F), and my OCed rig was making it just too warm. So I switched to my J1900 mini-PC (which I leave on all the time anyways). 6W idle, 20W max. My OCed G4400 was probably nearly 80-100W by itself, and the idle GPU (maybe not idle, I have VSR enabled), probably another 20W at the very least.

Edit: It's not so much the power consumption itself, but the heat it puts off in conjunction with the power usage. Yes, I have 80Plus PSUs, actually EVGA "Bronze", which are what, 82-85% efficient?

 

[frozentundra123456]

People always have heated debates in forums because ppl always want to convince others that their logic/thinking/opinion are better than others'. You have PC vs console debates going on for years. Then among the console fans they'll debate with each other over Xbox vs PS. On PC side we debate over AMD vs NVidia.

I remember the GPU forum was not as hostile before, but it went downhill when companies like NVidia was paying ppl to comment in GPU forums with extremely bias opinions. I still remember a particular user name here, "Rollo" iirc. Those extremely bias and stubborn discussions helped created a hostile environment in the GPU space that is difficult to recover from.

You can honestly look at the forums now and blame nVidia?? Seriously??

 

[hrga225]

People always have heated debates in forums because ppl always want to convince others that their logic/thinking/opinion are better than others'.

Where is that short comic "Someone is wrong on the internet" when you need it.

 

[Headfoot]

There are several advantages to a cpu or gpu that uses less power for the same performance. It will dissipate less heat, run cooler and quieter, allow use of a lower wattage psu, and save a few dollars a year. Those benefits are exactly the same whether one drives a hummer or a prius, or whether he keeps his house at 50 degrees or 75 degrees. So, price and performance being equal, it seems absurd to ignore those benefits, no matter what you do in the rest of your life.

What's more absurd is focusing on minutiae amounting to a few dollars when you're talking about a luxury good that costs hundreds of them that gets replaced ever 2 to 3 years on average.

 

[Bacon1]

Where is that short comic "Someone is wrong on the internet" when you need it.

https://xkcd.com/386/

 

[Rifter]

You can honestly look at the forums now and blame nVidia?? Seriously??

why not, rollo was a serious problem, and a big part of the reason it has degenerated into the state its in now.

EDIT:

Thought i would add to the above as it may have come off not as intended. Im not saying nvidia is at fault, just that paid shills like rollo are a serious problem, and part of the reason we are where we are today. And it appears to me that Nvidia got into the paid shill game before AMD from what ive seen over the years, but im sure both companies are involved with that style of marketing now, and its not a good thing.

 

[lifeblood]

Nobody has mentioned it but I think some of these fanatics have emotional or anger issues and literally need therapy. I've seen reviews of AMD product reviews posted at 12:00 am and the first comment was posted at 12:01 am which said "another crappy product from AMD". Really? The poster was able to read the entire 10 page review and make that conclusion in one minute? No, they were waiting for the review to go live so they could be first to post with a derogatory comment. That is not the act of a reasonable person, that's the act of someone who needs help.

 

[master_shake_]

Nobody has mentioned it but I think some of these fanatics have emotional or anger issues and literally need therapy. I've seen reviews of AMD product reviews posted at 12:00 am and the first comment was posted at 12:01 am which said "another crappy product from AMD". Really? The poster was able to read the entire 10 page review and make that conclusion in one minute? No, they were waiting for the review to go live so they could be first to post with a derogatory comment. That is not the act of a reasonable person, that's the act of someone who needs help.

you don't speed read?

most people just skip to the benches skim through find 2 that show it in a bad light and call it crap.

 

[tweakboy]

IM calm cool and collective. hehe

 

[boozzer]

Nobody has mentioned it but I think some of these fanatics have emotional or anger issues and literally need therapy. I've seen reviews of AMD product reviews posted at 12:00 am and the first comment was posted at 12:01 am which said "another crappy product from AMD". Really? The poster was able to read the entire 10 page review and make that conclusion in one minute? No, they were waiting for the review to go live so they could be first to post with a derogatory comment. That is not the act of a reasonable person, that's the act of someone who needs help.

woah, that is a nice catch

 

[Sonikku]

OR it could be Nvidia viral marketing. /tinfoilhat

 

[frozentundra123456]

why not, rollo was a serious problem, and a big part of the reason it has degenerated into the state its in now.

EDIT:

Thought i would add to the above as it may have come off not as intended. Im not saying nvidia is at fault, just that paid shills like rollo are a serious problem, and part of the reason we are where we are today. And it appears to me that Nvidia got into the paid shill game before AMD from what ive seen over the years, but im sure both companies are involved with that style of marketing now, and its not a good thing.

I think Rollo was before my time in these forums, at least i dont remember him. But if you want to blame someone like that, there was always jfAmd in the cpu forums hyping up bulldozer and generating a lot of vitriol. Point is many of the most vocal posters for either side are new members with a few posts, who obviously dont post the way they do because of something that went on years ago in the forums. The other point I was trying to make, is that IMO, right now this forum has a lot more pro-AMD posters that nVidia. In any case, not to sound metaphysical, ultimately we are responsible for our own actions. Just because someone acted a certain way in the past is not justification for what a person does today.

 

[Dribble]

I find it interesting that Nvidia just hard launched set of laptop gpu's which basically double performance over previous gen, which I would say is pretty big deal and there's not one mention of it anywhere I can see.

Is that because this forum basically exists to argue, and since AMD isn't in that space there's simply nothing to argue about here?

 

[Qwertilot]

Sadly, quite possibly yes Although the 1070/80/Titan provoked a ton of fighting too of course.

Still there is a mention of them up in the Nvidia section/Pascal thread.

 

[Sweepr]

I find it interesting that Nvidia just hard launched set of laptop gpu's which basically double performance over previous gen, which I would say is pretty big deal and there's not one mention of it anywhere I can see.

Koduri got this one wrong.

"We believe we're several months ahead of this transition, especially for the notebook and the mainstream market"