Hopefully finally nail down preferableness of DVD-R OR DVD+R

[Jerry]

I do know that this is not the newest question available, but I have spent hours and it would be lovely to get nailed down as to whether it would be more practical to buy a spindle of ?R or +R DVDs. I would only buy Taiyo Yudens. I am, among other things, a computer engineer and not unfamiliar with many of the ways of the 1?s and 0?s, but only now commencing DVD use.
However, I have spent hours trying to find if there is a consensus of which way to go. I note that the newest, stand alone, home DVD players state only ?R on the box (Toshiba SD-K740SU for example) but that could just mean that Toshiba and others are INCLUDING +R as an ?understood? compliance.
I also note that there seems to have been, in 2002, per a web site writeup I read, at least a 4 to 1 ratio of sales of ?R to +R (more for ?R). This may be dramatically different, in ratio in 2004.
I am trying to read the nuances and between the lines, but have yet to find a source which says:
?since the early DVD devices were oriented to ?R, it is a given that one should use ?R, for greatest compatibility?
Or
?since Plextor does such a good job with CAV, and since +R supports CAV but ?R does not, and since one would only be buying the newer playing devices, now, it is more sensible to go with the +R.
Is it purely the ability to change the booktype field (bitsetting) ?
I would be using a high quality multiple format writer, so that is not an issue.
Can anyone refer me to a definitive opinion or preference towards one or the other of the ?R or +R formats ? Thanks in advance.

 

[dheffer]

Whenever I make "backup" copy of DVD movies, I always use DVD+R, and they work flawlessly on my Toshiba. To the best of my knowledge, DVD+R is the more standardized movie format, as dvd-r wont play on any of my set top dvd players. I use DVD-R for data and backup, because its slightly cheaper, and more the standard for data backup.

This is just what I've gathered, and what I do.

 

[Jerry]

dheffer, Interesting. I had the impression that their more predominate uses were the reverse. In other words, -R for more prevelant and compatible with older DVD players and +R for data due to some "enhanced" features and somwhat less compatible for older or newer DVD players
And Rima.com has identical prices for -R and +R TY's.
I appreciate your perspective.

 

[NightCrawler]

I like and use DVD+R/W because it's cost the same as minus format and I see no advantage anymore to using the minus format.

 

[Jerry]

NightCrawler, Could you elaborate a touch on the previous advantage to the minus format versus now ? And do you mean DVD+R as a "catagory" when you reference DVD+R/W ? (which would include DVD+R and DVD+RW) Thanks.

 

[Fingolfin269]

I have never had a problem using DVD + or - on any of my normal DVD players. I just choose to use + because it works in my Xbox.

 

[Muscles]

I've always used dvd-r media for both backup and dvd movies. Never had a problem with any of my players including several dvd-rom drives in all my computers and several dvd players hooked up to my TV's. I can't really get technical. I can just tell you that -r is the only thing I've ever used and I have *never* *ever* had a problem for any types of usage.

 

[RFJ]

It is a curiosity, at the least, that one format has not emerged over the other in terms of usage. Who has what to gain in seeing one of the two formats ?conquer? the other ?

http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/3575.cfm

http://www.afterdawn.com/glossary/terms/dvdplusr.cfm

BTW, I do remember well the VHS versus Betamax, and would not like to be left out in the cold after a victory by one side or the other, however unlikely that might seem.

 

[TerryMathews]

+R drives that can bitset are (slightly) more compatible than -R drives.

 

[RFJ]

Terry, do you mean that by using +R disks in the widely available multiple format DVD writers, that one could achieve greater compatibility with stand alone DVD players ?

 

[bluewall21]

I only use -r because +r does not work on my JVC or Toshiba DVD Players.

 

[warcrow]

Its almost trivial as to which format to use, -r/+r format because most of the newest DVD players (set top boxes) since 2000 support both even when not fully disclosed.

What is more of a concern (when talking about movie playback, not strickly data use for PCs) is the CBR (constant Bit Rate) or the VBR (Variable Bit Rate) the disk is encoded at. The DVD standard does not support a BR higher than 10,800kbps. that being said, you have to understand that that bitrate is shared by the video and sound packages. So, if you're encoding the video at 9800kbps, then that only leaves 1000kbps for sound, which is fine if you're enocding in PCM or MP2, but AC3 uses rooughly 1,500kbps.

What I've done to ensure compatibility with older boxes is set a CBR to 6500kbps, so that even older DVD players can read the disks. I've used -R and +r media and both work fine on many players (except for a Fisher, that wouldnt play either one). Make sense?

DVD is funny, its kinda like subnetting. At first it seems so simple, but once you get into the technical details it gets pretty complex (although, hardly as complex as subnetting -but you get the point).

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: RFJ
Terry, do you mean that by using +R disks in the widely available multiple format DVD writers, that one could achieve greater compatibility with stand alone DVD players ?

Not quite. Some DVD+R drives have a feature called bitsetting. See, at the beginning of a DVD, there's a field that identified what kind of disc it is, whether it's DVD-ROM, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW, or DVD+R DL. Certain players will refuse certain booktypes, just based on their name. This would be obvious when the player refuses the disc immediately, vs. spending a minute or more trying to read it.

What bitsetting does is allow the writer to set the booktype at DVD-ROM instead of the normal label. It's a feature that AFAIK only works on +R, +R DL and +RW discs; -R doesn't support custom booktypes.

Also, AFAIK only the newest multiformat drives support it. I believe the Ricoh 108 does, and I personally know the NEC 3500 does. Older +R only drives also supported it - my old NEC 1100A supported it.

 

[CraigRT]

I use -R for videos, and +R for everything else.

my Toshiba player won't play +R media that I've tried... but most brands of -R are no problem.

I like using +R better because its faster, but -R is the compatibility champion if your DVD players are not the newest out.

 

[RFJ]

But I would say, warcrow , that this is an interesting and valuable posting/contribution.

Perhaps ?R disks are still being sold to service the earlier DVD writers. And there seems to be an almost political tug of war on the two formats, about which I have not yet found full clarity. I have gone to web sites that seem dedicated to expounding the benefits of ?R over +R. Perhaps because the world was less connected in the earlier Betamax and VHS days, this did not seem to be the case.
Terry ? so if writing to +R disks one could delineate and designate which type of booksetting it was/is and ?dial in? the compatibility with a particular DVD player. (pre-2000?)

So, if one kept with DVD+R, used a booktype/bitsetting which matched the DVD player, and kept the CBR to 6500kbps, one would be covering as many bases as one could ?

PS Mark, Kristin is a knockout. Kelly Preston could look as nice as Kristin.

 

[warcrow]

Thanks RFJ!

Yes, it comes down to a political tug-of-war over who wants their IP to be the prodominate choice of media, so they can make the royalties. Its all business between some heavy hitters (mainly Sony, Phillips, Masushita, and a few others..).

Yes, there is no solid standard that will get you 100% compatibility across the board, but what you can do it try to accomidate as many users a possible. From my experiences, reducing the BR from 8000 to 6500 isnt really that big of a deal in quality.

 

[TerryMathews]

Originally posted by: RFJ
So, if one kept with DVD+R, used a booktype/bitsetting which matched the DVD player, and kept the CBR to 6500kbps, one would be covering as many bases as one could ?

Well, let me put it this way. I've never encountered a player that wouldn't play a bitset DVD+R, including my rev 1.0 PS2 and Xbox (Thompson drive), both of which are notorious about not playing recordables. They also work in my 1x or 2x DVD-ROM drive (It's a Hitachi GD2500, I believe - salvaged from an IBM Aptiva P2 350).

What burner do you have? If it's one capable of bitsetting, I'd get a spindle of DVD+Rs. If it doesn't support bitsetting, I'd go with the -Rs.

And I wouldn't really call it "dialing in" compatability either. You pretty much always want to select DVD-ROM as your booktype if your burner supports it. There is never an advantage to selecting DVD+R as your booktype.

 

[RFJ]

Terry,
?You pretty much always want to select DVD-ROM as your booktype if your burner supports it. There is never an advantage to selecting DVD+R as your booktype.?
How long would it have taken me to learn that without you mentioning it here ?
Thanks. As to the type of writer, it seems a plextor 712A ? which now has bitsetting capability with the newest version of Nero 6.3.xx
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/10551
I can deal with the lack of dual layer support at a later point when the DL disks come down from their astronomical prices. And at that point perhaps NEC or Pioneer, or even Liteon will have faster and better DL writers at lower prices.
Or I could go with NEC 3500 or Pioneer 108 now. It will be shortly decided with Plextor releases it DL writers any day now.

Mark,
I have yet to figure out on whose side Sony, Phillips, Masushita, and a few others.. are, but it seems that if I go with the above (previous post) recipe, that it should be in the right direction.

PS, Jerry ? I/we seem to have somewhat usurped your thread ! (levity)

 

[TerryMathews]

3500 IMO is the best deal right now. Bitsetting, 16x, DL support, multiformat, and it's only $77 shipped @ NewEgg with a 5 pack of DVD-Rs.

 

[RFJ]

Terry,
A sincere thanks, AGAIN. I am quite satisfied to go with the NEC 3500, particularly if the programs that Plextor includes, namely :
GigaRec, PoweRec, SecuRec, Q-Check, Silent Mode, and VariRec. PlexWriter Premium, are not, in practicality, all that necessary. But I am not sufficiently familiar with them versus the NEC 3500a. It is my usual mode to try these things out, but you have much more experience with this than I.
I note that my Liteon 40X CDR (not DVD) does everything I ask it to, and that the extra money for a Plextor CDR would not be well placed. But many reviewers seem smitten with the quality of the scans of the Plextor. The only thing that the Plextor 712a would seem to be missing is the dual layer aspect. Opinion ?

 

[NightCrawler]

Originally posted by: Jerry
NightCrawler, Could you elaborate a touch on the previous advantage to the minus format versus now ? And do you mean DVD+R as a "catagory" when you reference DVD+R/W ? (which would include DVD+R and DVD+RW) Thanks.

Yes DVD+R's and DVD+RW's, with bitsetting and newer DVD players being so cheap it's not worth dealing minus format anymore.

Minus use to be cheap and more compatible but today a $50 standalone DVD player and a $50 DVD burner is all you need.

PS: Burn a movie on a DVD+R and go to the store and test the players ability to play it back. You may find that the cheap ass DVD player is actually better then the real high end players.

 

[RFJ]

NightCrawler, permit me to enter in with you and Jerry... I note your reference to "a $50 DVD burner is all you need."
Might that apply to my post, immediately above re the Plextor ? And that the Plextor's presumed or supposed higher quality might not be worth the extra expense when things have possibly consumerized at /to this point where an NEC 3500 will burn just as well as the Plextor, for example ?
I picked up a $50 stand alone DVD player just so that I could play burned CDRs which would not play on the older CD player. The sound was perhaps not great, and certainly not as good as some expensive high end CD player, but it is sufficient, in that I go for the content more than the subtleties.
Might the metaphor apply also to DVD burners and the eventual ?scans? and images they provide ?

 

[0roo0roo]

-r = dvd player compatability
+r less wasteful with stuff like multiple sessions for data.

 

[thermalpaste]

Sony DVD writers support both. formats. Ever since they invented the floppy disk and the walkman, they have been trying to come up with something that would make them the pioneers yet again. WHo uses sony's atrac technology? e all prefer mp3s or ovbs. But then the advantage of buying a sony is that it supports both...........

 

[Jerry]

Yes, RFJ, please feel free to enter in. It would seem desirable to pick up the line of messages/posts that was in progress (now on the previous page) and up to your last post, and may have been thrown off with the message regarding Sony, etc.