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Hooked on handouts

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
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Text



If welfare reform is considered a success, then why not apply the same principles to others who get government money?

Most of what the government does could be called welfare, using a very broad definition of the word. It's not hard to find individuals, corporations, states or communities hooked on one Washington handout or another. The result of this largesse is a society that is unproductively dependent on government support - and politically organized to keep it coming.

Agriculture is a leading example. Supports have become a sad hoax on the U.S. taxpayer. According to a recent report by The Washington Post, the government has handed out $1.3 billion since 2000 to people who don't even farm. It has sent billions of dollars in drought relief to areas where there was no drought. And, oh yes, it has paid out a staggering $144 billion over 10 years, according to the National Taxpayers Union, 72% of which went to the 10% of farmers with the largest holdings. Such spending is an insult to hardworking, unsubsidized, Americans. Wasteful farm programs should be cut.

The federal budget is replete with hundreds of payments to, and tax benefits for, other politically potent industries. This "corporate welfare" ranges from government-funded logging roads to subsidies for electric utilities. Last year, according to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service, Congress earmarked 15,877 items worth $47.4 billion to specific recipients, many of them companies with well-connected Washington lobbyists.

This not only squanders taxpayers' money, it also clogs decision-making in the private sector. Rather than making a smart business decision promptly, companies wait to see whether they can make more by delaying and doing something that could be less sensible.

Local and state governments suffer from the same disease. The U.S. Conference of Mayors reported last week that nearly five years after 9/11, 80% of communities still don't have a way for their emergency services to communicate effectively with each other. One reason cited: Not enough money from Washington. If they were cut off, would they fix it themselves?

Then there are the federal entitlement programs:
Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. The parallel to welfare is imperfect. People pay throughout their working lives to get into the first two, and in most cases all three provide vital support. But escalating medical costs and the aging of the population will soon make them unaffordable, ensuring benefit cuts, tax increases or both. Some steps toward greater responsibility could help, such as reducing incentives for early retirement, and increasing premiums and co-payments for wealthy Medicare recipients.

Looking at all of these programs, it's no wonder the government will spend $300 billion more than it collects this year. As the welfare reformers were saying a decade ago, federal generosity has created a corrosive culture of dependency. Restoring fiscal sanity will require controlling welfare payments - and not just those going to the poor.


A good example of many of the problems in the government. It's unfortunate how politicians like to bribe people with their own money, but nobody wants to give up all their precious government services.

The first thing to be done is get rid of Medicare to cut down trillions of future liabilities. And the last thing we need is more handouts like "universal" health care.
 

ayabe

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
7,449
0
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Yeah well pork barrel projects tucked into military spending bills should be outlawed.

No bid contracts should be outlawed.

Oh yeah and we're still missing 10 billion +/- of Iraqi reconstruction money. Not to mention that the US taxpayer is being taken to the cleaners by KBR for laundry, food services, and fuel for the troops.

Missle defense system that will never work and is outdated.


the list goes on and on, that's the R controlled congress for you, the party of fiscal responsibility.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Huh....reading the thread title, I thought that this was going to be about another break to the oil industry. Sadly, I then noticed that Zen was the author and just new that it would never be anything negative about a corporation. :(
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
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I like welfare for individuals, but I actually agree with a lot of what's in zen's post...
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: zendari
It's unfortunate how politicians like to bribe people with their own money, but nobody wants to give up all their precious government services.
Obviously, you don't care about little things like reality. You'd rather pick on programs that are intended to help those who are actually in need and hurting than try to curb the graft, corruption, fraud and waste by the Bushwhackos' big money war profiteers. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

zendari -- Given the choice of attacking real problems and possibly helping those who really need it, or supporting continued lies, corruption, fraud and outright criminality in our government and its agencies, why do you always come down on the side of the pricks and assholes?

Guess it's true about birds of a feather. :roll:
 

Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,197
4
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The irony is that many of us dislike Dubya precisely because of all of his increases in the corporate welfare this OpEd points out (farm subsidies, for instance, tripled under Bush), yet Zendari can't get enough of him.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,787
11,420
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The troll in chief is in quite rare form today. But, no mention of how everything is Clinton's fault so I guess it's not all bad. :)
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: zendari
It's unfortunate how politicians like to bribe people with their own money, but nobody wants to give up all their precious government services.
Obviously, you don't care about little things like reality. You'd rather pick on programs that are intended to help those who are actually in need and hurting than try to curb the graft, corruption, fraud and waste by the Bushwhackos' big money war profiteers. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

zendari -- Given the choice of attacking real problems and possibly helping those who really need it, or supporting continued lies, corruption, fraud and outright criminality in our government and its agencies, why do you always come down on the side of the pricks and assholes?

Guess it's true about birds of a feather. :roll:

Graft, corruption, fraud, and waste like collecting multiple FEMA cards and buying tequila?

The real pricks and assholes are the ones taking 7.65% of my paycheck.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
13,787
11,420
136
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: zendari
It's unfortunate how politicians like to bribe people with their own money, but nobody wants to give up all their precious government services.
Obviously, you don't care about little things like reality. You'd rather pick on programs that are intended to help those who are actually in need and hurting than try to curb the graft, corruption, fraud and waste by the Bushwhackos' big money war profiteers. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

zendari -- Given the choice of attacking real problems and possibly helping those who really need it, or supporting continued lies, corruption, fraud and outright criminality in our government and its agencies, why do you always come down on the side of the pricks and assholes?

Guess it's true about birds of a feather. :roll:

Graft, corruption, fraud, and waste like collecting multiple FEMA cards and buying tequila?

The real pricks and assholes are the ones taking 7.65% of my paycheck.

Why are you so upset over $1.43???????
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
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Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: zendari
It's unfortunate how politicians like to bribe people with their own money, but nobody wants to give up all their precious government services.
Obviously, you don't care about little things like reality. You'd rather pick on programs that are intended to help those who are actually in need and hurting than try to curb the graft, corruption, fraud and waste by the Bushwhackos' big money war profiteers. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

zendari -- Given the choice of attacking real problems and possibly helping those who really need it, or supporting continued lies, corruption, fraud and outright criminality in our government and its agencies, why do you always come down on the side of the pricks and assholes?

Guess it's true about birds of a feather. :roll:

Graft, corruption, fraud, and waste like collecting multiple FEMA cards and buying tequila?

The real pricks and assholes are the ones taking 7.65% of my paycheck.

So you blame the majority of the mess on a few hundred thousand that people ripped off the government?

Congressional negotiators completed work yesterday on a $14.5 billion package of tax breaks as part of a major energy bill that provides far less support for alternative energy and efficiency than many lawmakers had urged.

In the wake of last week's terrorist attacks involving hijacked airplanes, Congress has passed a measure for a $15 billion financial aid package to help the crippled airline industry and set up a government compensation fund for victims to help deter lawsuits.

The bill exempts oil and gas industries from some clean-water laws, streamlines permits for oil wells and power lines on public lands, and helps the hydropower industry appeal environmental restrictions. One obscure provision would repeal a Depression-era law that has prevented consolidation of public utilities, potentially transforming the nation's electricity markets.

It also includes an estimated $85 billion worth of subsidies and tax breaks for most forms of energy -- including oil and gas, "clean coal," ethanol, electricity, and solar and wind power. The nuclear industry got subsidies for research, waste reprocessing, construction, operation and even decommission. The petroleum industry got new incentives to drill in the Gulf of Mexico -- as if $60-a-barrel oil wasn't enough of an incentive. The already-subsidized ethanol industry got a federal mandate that will nearly double its output by 2012 -- as well as new subsidies to develop ethanol from other sources.

In our mind, there is no one that is less deserving of federal support than Wal-Mart, yet it gets $37 million from Uncle Sam in the transportation bill. Last year, Wal-Mart made $20,000 profit every minute of every day for a total of $10.3 billion dollars on the year. Other retail giants didn?t do nearly so well: Target?s profit per minute was $6,084, and Costco?s profit per minute was $1,711.

Here are the details. The federal highway bill contains $37 million for widening and extending the road in Bentonville, Arkansas that is the main access point to the headquarters of Wal-Mart Stores Inc.

Republican Representative John Boozman (R-AR), whose district includes Wal-Mart Stores Inc.'s headquarters, was largely responsible for getting the earmark. He proposed an amendment to the highway bill to exempt retailers, such as Wal-Mart, from federal truck driving rules. To get this amendment to go away, Rep. Don Young (R-AK) offered Boozman an additional $34 million for the road in his final revisions to the bill.

"Wal-Mart presents itself as an entrepreneurial success story, yet it has made extensive use of tax breaks, free land, cash grants and other forms of public assistance," said Philip Mattera, research director of Good Jobs First and principal author of the study.

The study found more than 240 cases in which the construction of a new Wal-Mart facility was assisted by taxpayers. Apart from 160 retail outlets, the study found subsidies at 84 distribution centers, representing more than 90% of the network of huge warehouses Wal-Mart has built to facilitate its expansion. Mattera stressed that the $1 billion figure is necessarily an understatement, given that public disclosure of subsidies is severely limited.

The value of subsidies for individual distribution centers ranged as high as $48 million (with an average of $7.4 million), while for retail outlets the largest was $12 million (average: $2.8 million). Subsidy deals were found in 35 states, with the most in California, Illinois, Missouri, Texas and Mississippi. In dollar terms, Louisiana, Florida and New York also ranked high.

"That a company with $9 billion in profits can wrest subsidies from state and local governments shows that the candy store game is out of control," said Greg LeRoy, executive director of Good Jobs First. "The subsidies to Wal-Mart are particularly troubling, given that it uses taxpayer dollars to create jobs that tend to be poverty-wage, part-time and lacking in adequate healthcare benefits."

You're right Zen. I see the err of my ways. Damn the liberal welfare pricks scamming the govt into having raise my taxes to make up for their thousands of dollars in handouts after losing their entire homes and in some cases family also. :roll:
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Strk
The irony is that many of us dislike Dubya precisely because of all of his increases in the corporate welfare this OpEd points out (farm subsidies, for instance, tripled under Bush), yet Zendari can't get enough of him.

I'll take it over Al Gore's universal handout care, and prescription drug plan 60% more expensive than the current crap.

"At a time of almost unimaginable medical breakthroughs, we will fight for affordable health care for all - so patients and ordinary people are not left powerless and broke. We will move toward universal health coverage, step by step"
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Fact of the matter is conservatism can't survive in a democracy because it takes a long-view approach and shuns populism and immediate action to "problems".. Everyone is hooked on handouts, even the rich, contractors and farmers who deal and recieve from the government. Bush and todays republicans, bwhahaha don't make me laugh these clowns have created the largest bureaucracy in history and are authoritarian one world socialists who sold out their party and their nation in exchange for political power.

What that in mind you just have to chose the party where you think those tax monies are better spent..
 
Feb 10, 2000
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There is no point in responding to Zen. If we all ignore him he'll go away - it's worked before and it will work again. 5%, at best, of his posts are anything other than pure trolling. It's best just to ignore him.
 

Zedtom

Platinum Member
Nov 23, 2001
2,146
0
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There is no easy solution to the runaway costs in the medical industry. It's convenient to say that the government should just dismantle Medicare, but what do we replace it with? You can't send all of the elderly in nursing homes out into the streets.

Zendari and people of his mindset seem to say, "I'm in good shape and I'll always be healthy. If I ever become sick or disabled there will be plenty of money stashed away and my insurance will always be there to pay my bills".

In real life, even the best plans for one's health can suddenly take a tragic turn.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Most of what the government does could be called welfare, using a very broad definition of the word. It's not hard to find individuals, corporations, states or communities hooked on one Washington handout or another. The result of this largesse is a society that is unproductively dependent on government support - and politically organized to keep it coming.

Yup, all you need to do is watch the political races around the country to note it isnt so much an ideology people push anymore but how much of the looting of the federal coffers they can send their voters.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Huh....reading the thread title, I thought that this was going to be about another break to the oil industry. Sadly, I then noticed that Zen was the author and just new that it would never be anything negative about a corporation. :(

Sometimes reading before commenting is good.

This "corporate welfare" ranges from government-funded logging roads to subsidies for electric utilities. Last year, according to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service, Congress earmarked 15,877 items worth $47.4 billion to specific recipients, many of them companies with well-connected Washington lobbyists.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: zendari
It's unfortunate how politicians like to bribe people with their own money, but nobody wants to give up all their precious government services.
Obviously, you don't care about little things like reality. You'd rather pick on programs that are intended to help those who are actually in need and hurting than try to curb the graft, corruption, fraud and waste by the Bushwhackos' big money war profiteers. :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

zendari -- Given the choice of attacking real problems and possibly helping those who really need it, or supporting continued lies, corruption, fraud and outright criminality in our government and its agencies, why do you always come down on the side of the pricks and assholes?

Guess it's true about birds of a feather. :roll:

So what is the difference between a lobbyist raping the taxpayer for more money to his company than people electing an offical to do their raping?

Is there some kind of higher moral ground for the individual electing people who promise them a bigger slice of the taxpayers pie?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,059
73
91
Originally posted by: Genx87
So what is the difference between a lobbyist raping the taxpayer for more money to his company than people electing an offical to do their raping?

Is there some kind of higher moral ground for the individual electing people who promise them a bigger slice of the taxpayers pie?
There's nothing right about any ripoffs, but zen troll is always more interested in putting limits of any kind on any program designed to help the poor and ill, but he doesn't give a damn about lining the pockets of companies like Halliburton, Tom DeLay or the Jack Abramoffs of the country while they rip all of us a new asshole. :|
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Genx87
So what is the difference between a lobbyist raping the taxpayer for more money to his company than people electing an offical to do their raping?

Is there some kind of higher moral ground for the individual electing people who promise them a bigger slice of the taxpayers pie?
There's nothing right about any ripoffs, but zen troll is always more interested in putting limits of any kind on any program designed to help the poor and ill, but he doesn't give a damn about lining the pockets of companies like Halliburton, Tom DeLay or the Jack Abramoffs of the country while they rip all of us a new asshole. :|

I cant speak for Zentroll but we have an entitlement crunch coming up in the next 20-30 years we have to deal with now. We can either adapt or turn into the EU with high unemployment rates and slow growing economies.

I find the politicians selling us out to the people looking for a handout a worrysome situation.
 

HombrePequeno

Diamond Member
Mar 7, 2001
4,657
0
0
Wow, I actually agree with Zen here for the most part. Farm subsidies and corporate welfare should be killed off. SS, Medicare, and Medicaid should be majorly reworked so we're not stuck with them bankrupting our government.

Of course those are only part of our overspending. Add in a cut to the military and we could easily have a balanced budget. Then our trade deficit would go down quite a bit.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Strk
The irony is that many of us dislike Dubya precisely because of all of his increases in the corporate welfare this OpEd points out (farm subsidies, for instance, tripled under Bush), yet Zendari can't get enough of him.

I'll take it over Al Gore's universal handout care, and prescription drug plan 60% more expensive than the current crap.
Last I checked Al Gore was never President.

I may have slept some since last night so I better re-check history, I may have done a Rip Van Winkle.
 

zendari

Banned
May 27, 2005
6,558
0
0
Originally posted by: Zedtom
Zendari and people of his mindset seem to say, "I'm in good shape and I'll always be healthy. If I ever become sick or disabled there will be plenty of money stashed away and my insurance will always be there to pay my bills".

In real life, even the best plans for one's health can suddenly take a tragic turn.

And? It was never government's purpose to solve everyone's problems.

You're kidding yourself if you think corporate welfare began under the Bush administration.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: DonVito
There is no point in responding to Zen. If we all ignore him he'll go away - it's worked before and it will work again. 5%, at best, of his posts are anything other than pure trolling. It's best just to ignore him.

He's like a car accident, you just can't look away.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: zendari
Originally posted by: Zedtom
Zendari and people of his mindset seem to say, "I'm in good shape and I'll always be healthy. If I ever become sick or disabled there will be plenty of money stashed away and my insurance will always be there to pay my bills".

In real life, even the best plans for one's health can suddenly take a tragic turn.

And? It was never government's purpose to solve everyone's problems.

You're kidding yourself if you think corporate welfare began under the Bush administration.


I think thats the purpose of government, to solve problems we can't as individuals...or else why do we need them for in the first place?


They even say so in the preamble: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union,establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common
defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to
ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the
United States of America

.
What the "problems" are and what to do about them is really the only thing up for debate.